Six Five

Penguinfan

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Wanted to comment about your signature line for a while now, and I am not trying to start an argument with you, but I thnk it's a little off base in logic. The 3 things you mention other than guns all have a useful purpose other than the detremental things you equate them with, guns have no other puprpose. Cars, while used in DUI accidents also take us place we want to go, guns kill things and thats just about it. Now before you make the hunting/target practice argument I am more talking about guns like assault rifles and such, havent't seen too many AK-47's at the range recently. I posted a thread almost 6 months ago about handguns and what kind to get, so you know I did end up buying one, for one purpose and one purpose only, to shoot any dumb son of a bitch that wanders uninvited into my house, the gun is locked and ammunition is hidden out of reach of the kids, FOR SURE, but I can get to it in a hurry it I have to, and if I have to it means someone is getting shot, end of story. Took a class on guns/shooting and one thing they told us was never under any circumstance pull out the gun unless you intend to shoot someone with it, makes sense to me, thats what it's for, which is my point, guns do kill people, thats what they are for.
I really am against guns, but if the idiots of the world have them then I guess I feel the need to have one as well for protection, so I am really not trying to argue with you over this point, just think the logic behind your signature is a but stretched.
Hope you take that in the light it was meant.

Penguinfan
 

Penguinfan

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Chopsticks, actually I really didn't intend it to be like that, was really just looking to start a converation on the topic, seems people are way to one side or the other of this issue and I find myself kinda in the middle of it, a gun owner who really is not all that happy about needing one. I hope he doesn't change his sig line, thats was not my intention, he is certainly entitled to his opinion, like I said it was just an open door for dialogue, thats all.

Penguinfan
 

fletcher

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Yeah and the little guy would fit in it:D Now the rock will bite my toes next time he sees me, damn no black jack tonight? Hope the rain has quit on your get away:) Either way i know you will still find away to have fun.:eek:
 

TBONEZ0295

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We came home it was freezing at the shore.................plus I AM A BIG LOSER!!!!!!!!!!!!! I couldn't even win with a 20 :eek: seriously!!!!!!!!
 

fletcher

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Well that sucks. But not like you won't be there at the house down there every other weekend so you will get you fun in the sun and more, shocked you lost money, maybe better to be back home and hit them in a few weeks and enjoy the sun. Told ray he needs to get a surf pool and fish the tides it is great fun. never know what you are going to pull in. he would love it once he started i know he would.
 

THE KOD

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Re: Six Five

penguinfan said:
end of story.

Took a class on guns/shooting and one thing they told us was never under any circumstance pull out the gun unless you intend to shoot someone with it, makes sense to me, thats what it's for,
Penguinfan
..............................................................................

Pengy

The reason they tell you that is not for what most people think.

If you pull the gun out and are unable to protect yourself, then the scoundral will take your gun away and harm you with your own gun.

That can get embarressing. So people that pull the gun out should not then go into any form or paralizing fear of the nerves or spine, of some type. Where I am from we used to call it buck fever. The inability to fire the weapon accurately during a confrontation could mean pushing up daisys.

When guns come into play, the strongest man emotionally may well turn the tide. Thinking clearly and a keen ability to focus
is of the utmost importance.

KOD
 
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TBONEZ0295

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penguinfan said:
THREAD HI-JACKED!!!!!!!

Should I say I am sorry :rolleyes:

anyway........... fletch, it was good seeing you around in general dis. and sixfive , I happen to like your signature:D but I like chopsticks more LOL :D
 

SixFive

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Logic might be a bit stretched, but a gun is an inanimate object that is subject to the will of the bearer just like a car, etc. The point is, the right to keep and bear arms is precious, and if we give into the anti-gun crowd, it could potentially have a domino effect. First the handguns (I think fully automatic weapons like u mention, AK47s are illegal already unless u have a special license, but not sure) will be banned. Then the semiautomatic high-powered rifles will go followed closely by all high-powered rifles. We certainly don't want to end up with laws like the Canadians or Aussies have. The criminals will always have guns from some source.

I certainly have no problem with your opinion, and I'm glad u have your pistol. Remember though, if it weren't for organizations like the NRA and folks like me supporting them, u wouldn't have been able to buy a pistol. If u don't believe that, I feel u may be a little na?ve.

From you, "never under any circumstance pull out the gun unless you intend to shoot " I couldn't agree with that more. Guns should be respected, and I feel that any parent who allows a child to have a toy gun is doing their child an injustice. More children would benefit if they knew more about guns and the damage can do. Seeing a deer that has been shot with a gaping hole in it's side is a powerful lesson that guns are not toys and that can cause lots of damage. Heck, most kids only have exposure to guns through video games that show Snoop Dog packing a 9 in the hood of LA.

I'm about a whole lot more than second ammendment rights and not a gun totin' redneck. I think education other than shoot-em-up video games is vital.

PS, since u own a gun, I don't think u are against guns. ;)
 

Penguinfan

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SixFive

SixFive

Thanks for the reply, like I said everyone seems to be way to one side or the other of alot of issues, including this one and those of us basically undecided get caught without legitemit reasoning from either camp, just a vow to defend their position at any cost.

PS, since u own a gun, I don't think u are against guns.

I am not happy about having the gun at all, I suspect alot of people get a gun for the same reason I did, a couple houses a few blocks from us got broken into and while nobody was hurt and only things were stolen it still makes you want to protect your family.

Scott you bring up a good point, at class we were told if we got the gun for protection we certainly better cement in our minds that we have the ability, if necessary, to kill someone with it. When faced with a situation that you HAVE to get the gun you don't have time to do any more thinking, the decision has to be made well in advance.
 

loophole

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penguinfan, just a few thoughts on guns in the home.

initially, let me say that i was raised in a military home, with a family history of service and hunting that goes back for generations. as such, i was introduced to and taught to be proficient with guns of all types from an early age.

i am a criminal defense attorney, which by necessity means i am in contact with criminal types in my office, as well as significant sums of cash. until recently, i also practiced divorce and family law. i say this because, while i have never been threatened by a criminal client in twenty five years, i've lost count of the number of threats i've received from domestic adversarial parties - they're just not a rational lot.

as a result of this, i keep weapons in my home, my office and my personal vehicle. i have all licenses and permits to carry concealed weapons in my state, so everything's perfectly legal. the ones in my home and office are kept in private areas (i'm single, so no childen factor), but they are loaded. when i say loaded, i mean a revolver fully loaded minus a round in the chamber under the hammer, and an automatic with clip inserted but without a chambered round.

i tell you all of these things to put what i am about to tell you in perspective, and that is, for now anyway, to remove your gun from your home. simply put, if you took a gun class and then placed the gun in your home in the manner that you described, then i can assure you that a home intruder is far down the list of people most likely to be shot with your gun. a plethora of accidental cirmcumstances place you and your family close to the top of that list. you need much more training and familiarity to use a gun for home defese.

there is no substitute for adequate training predicating gun ownership, and one class is not enough. haven't seen the numbers lately, but i remember being particularly stricken years ago by the fact that most police officers who get shot are shot with their own service weapon. you say you have a locked gun and the ammo stored safely away from your gun, but you can get to it fast enough. what you are telling me is that, in a nighttime intruder scenario, you can be waken from a dead sleep, perceive the threat, find your gun in the dark, unlock it i in the dark, find the ammo in the dark, load the weapon, find the threat, identify the target as a threat, and then fire accurately and with no risk to other members of your family. all this right after being awaken. all in the dark. i'm sorry to say things just don't happen like that.

and remember, don't shoot the buddy whose wife threw him out drunk that night and who let himself in to sleep on your couch. or your high school daughter's boyfriend who's trying to swipe a few beers out of the basement fridge.

if you have doubts, try this. plan for for your wife to wake you some night at random, preferably after you've had a few drinks. tell her to wake you by yelling there's someone in the house. go through the whole ritual of finding your gun etc, in the dark. get some dummy rounds to use. now have a friend there in the next room, and tell him when he hears the wife yell to make his way to the bedroom to and try to find you and make contact enough to struggle for the weapon before you are ready to aim and fire. my money's on the "intruder."


my point is, you shouldn't consider placing a handgun in your home for personal protection unless you are willing to commit yourself to becoming completely proficient, no make that expertly adept, in its use and maintence. i'm not just talking about gun safety and range shooting, i mean becoming as comfortable with a gun in your hand as you are with your favorite power tool, or fishing rod, or whatever mechanical device you favor most. learn how to load and operate it in the dark. if you're not willing to go to this length, then you're better off without a gun in your home. get a good wooden baseball bat, saw off the fat end until you have about two feet left, drill hole throught the handle and put a rawhide strap through the end about ten inches in circumference. pick up the bat, put your hand through the strap and twist a couple of times, and go to town.

kids in the home are another matter. when my girls were young, i actually had an invisble compartment built into the wall of my bedroom next to my bed about seven feet off the floor. unless you are willing to go to such lengths, a gun for personal protection and kids in the same home is just not an option.

sorry to go on for such length, but in my career i have experienced dozens of tragic shootings of innocents with guns bought for home protection. i can count the number of cases where a homeowner has shot a criminal intruder on the fingers of one hand - - - with fingers left over.
 

SixFive

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loop, your post might seem severe to some, but it's probably right on practically. I alluded in my post to working with kids and teaching them about firearms while they are young. I, like you, was brought up with shooting and hunting and have spent countless hours doing these 2 things.

As a side note, I've always thought that a shotgun is probably a better home personal protection firearm. Easier to load and throws out a much larger pattern. I have been shooting handguns for a long time, and it's not like the Dirty Harry movies where he picks them off routinely at 50 yards. It's hard to accurately shoot a handgun!!
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Ditto on fully loaded but no round chambered Loop. While I don't have children I do have some frequent. I keep revolvers in the car but only have automatics in house. Reason it is damn near impossible for small child to have strengh to pull back slide and chamber round(especially S&W,Rugers and Walthers. You will see very few small women own one for same reason.
---and can relate to your divorce court and family problems. Golf with lots of active and retired State Troopers and more people in law enforcement are injured--some fatally --on domestic dispute calls than almost all other situations combimed.
 

loophole

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sixfive, you could make a case for a shotgun for home protection, but imo they're too unwieldy for use inside, and probably more easily wrestled away from you. also, safely keeping a loaded shotgun inside the home is problematic. to me, a handgun is preferable, but at a minimum i tell people to practice all the things i mentioned above at least weekly for a year before they consider keeping a gun in their home. you are that right about mastering proficiency with a handgun.

i'll tell you a funny story on the subject. when i took my concealed weapons class, it was taught by a guy who was a real yahoo imo, you know the type, the "i'm a real hot shot with a gun" kind of guy. it stood out to me, because none of the people that i know who are really good with guns act like that.

anyway, we go to the range for the shooting proficiency test, which consists of shooting a silhouette target in the chest three out of six tries at a range of thirty feet - - - not exactly a challenge. i took a glock .45 auto that i hadn't had out in a while, stepped up to the firing line and put the first three in the chest and the last three in the head, you know, just for a little practice. the hot shot walks up to the line and asks me if i'm any good with my weapon, i told him good enough. he then asked if i thought i was better than him, so i told him i didn't know, i had never seen him shoot.

he proceeds to walk to his car and come back with a gun case and pull out this fancy target pistol, obviously very expensive. he then challenges me to a shooting contest, says we'll shoot at one of those spinners, you know, one of those targets with two freespinning metal plates about the size of a small ashtray that spin after a hit. i look and its about thirty yards downrange - doable but a challenge. he says best of ten, i say fine. he says you go first, i say fine. i step up and sqeeze one off (with my .45 auto, mind you) and hit. im pleased and relieved. he steps up, fires and misses. i step up and hit. i'm privately a little surprised (mine is not the weapon i'd choose for this contest), but acting nonchalant. he steps up a second time, fires and misses. swears under his breath. i step up a third time, fire and hit (i'm stunned, but still looking cool). he then says its taking too long and its time to move on with the class - we'll come back and finish later. i say fine.

at least he passed me, and i didn't have to listen to the hot shot rap anymore.
 

djv

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You wish to come to my house and take my 12 gauge away Loop.
I disagree with you. I'll get that pistol away from you easy then a 12 gauge. And if I fire it in self defence. Good by to that person as they are blowen back about 5 feet.
I believe we all should be able to own guns or rifles. I do not believe I need a clip that holds more then 10 rounds. If im really that poor a shot I should not own the dam thing to start with.
And if anyone realy things the congress of the USA would ever pass a law saying no guns you are nuts.
As for should they be registered. Why not. No differant then your other weapon. That would be your auto. And you register it every year.
 

Mjolnir

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people fear a shotgun more than a handgun. when you rack that shell into the chamber, you instantly command respect.
 
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