SOSA GONE!!!

[Englishman]

Fletch:

that just doesn't make any sense. Bigger muscles means getting the bat around quicker. It's just obvious.

BTW, have you seen a picture of Bonds when he was with Pitt and now? The human body cannot naturally do that.

Like Hank Aaron said, what gives it away is the fact his numbers got better in his late 30's - that is just not possible for the human body.

Just not possible without the aid of drugs. This is all just common sense. I just don't understand why so many people defend this guy!

 

[IntenseOperator]

Let me add one thing as a Chicagoan and a follower of the enemy

I would say Sosa has not been liked by his team mates for more than just one year. A certain Mark Grace (who I think is a stand up guy) was basically shown the door after all he did for the Cubs because he did not appreciate Sosa's bullshit. Grace was suppose to be the air apparent for a job doing the Cubs games. It would have been the perfect match. He gave all that up because of his disgust for Sosa. This goes back many years. The best thing about Grace winning it all with the D-Backs, is that it capped a solid career and it kind of showed the Cubs organization and Sammy up a bit. Kenny Lofton talked disparagingly about Sosa and his F'n clubhouse radio bullshit and the end of the season a couple years back and he was not invited back. Fittingly, one of the teams greatest weaknesses was their lack of a leadoff hitter last year. This past season, Sosa is just catching more flack from a group of guys tired of his shit over the years, and he didn't have the numbers to keep his feet dry. He also arrogantly made the mistake of ripping Dusty, a worthless manager with no spine that was brought here SPECIFICALLY to stroke Sosa's tiny unit. He then had NO friends.

Sosa is one of those people with what I call "an optional mirror". He amazingly sees himself and his actions in a positive light.

IMO he's luckier than shit to hook up with Baltimore. I would have loved to see him get shredded in NY.

 

[Taximike]

Sosa in chicago reminds me of Albert Belle in cleve in the 90's. Belle pulled more bullshit antics when he was there than can be believed. Pissed off and alienated most of his teamates, but his chit didn't stink cause he was putting up HOF numbers. Now if he were to have stopped hitting (left via free agency before his numbers fell off) he woulda been on the first bus outta town, prolly tied to the back of it.

 

[fletcher]

Englishman no sense??? Big muscles have not one single thing to do with bat speed. Like I said this is not football or slow pitch softball, Not putting you down but you are very off base with that statement sorry my friend.

TM was he still Joey at that time

 

[fletcher]

KD if O's can grab 2 starters who can just keep them in the game for 5 or 6 they have a good shot for a change. There pitching flat out was a major let down, I know they were and are young but hey this is pro baseball age should only matter to some degree. They need to get tough up in the melon. Pitching when you get to that level is 80% mental, you don't get past a ball unless you are good , you really don't even make it to rookie ball unless you are one of the top 3% who played the sport or little less in college or hs. By the time you are in aaa or the show, most of your winning pitchers or better word successful pitchers you can be a great pitcher and not win, stats are what you look at to tell if a guy is doing his job not the w and L's those are more of the team overall stats there. I think they the O's staff needs to act and thing they belong on the field and would have better performances out of them. They were a let down the staff the last few years as starters. You have to be strong upstairs to make it as a pro pitcher. You can have all the god given ability and if your weak in the mind your not going to be around long. They have the talent in the young arms but just not the toughness upstairs. that is also very hard to teach. So they need to have a string of players lined up in camp ready to go, They have the off and deff just need to get avg outings out of starting staff and will be lot better. Can't walk people in the show like they did last year and giving up a walk for the most part comes from being scared to challenge the hitter and use you D. this is all in the head. I hate it when a sportscaster says a pitcher is trying to be to fine, to fine my ass what he is doing is pitching scared and that won't cut it.

I will take a guy who is tough as nails upstairs with avg talent over a guy with super star talent who is scared and weak up top, and I will win more games with that staff then the talent weak minded staff.

Like I said if they can get avg starts from their staff and good quality innings they will have a chance to make a wild card run IMO.

 

[Englishman]

Fletch:

If it doesn't help, why do so many major leaguers take the stuff?

 

[fletcher]

i did not say it did not help I said it slowed down bat speed, it helps body over all get stronger and recover faster from training, and keeps the legs under you in a six moth season, it has been test by researchers in labs the people who know not one thing about sports but know how to run a test, it gives you like I said a extra 15-20 feet on distance which makes a difference for gap shots or hump back hit balls when pitch is on hands, instead of ball being weak out to middle inf it becomes a cheap hit due to muscling the ball over the head of the middle inf. It is used to let the body recover faster and to make muscles be able to take more ware and tear though out the season, there are all different kind of juice out there for different things, you don't see these huge body builders or power lifters out on a baseball field of golf course the could not swint the bat or club with so much mass. the stuff you take for baseball is all the same stacks for the most part that has always been used just some have a different way to take them like a cream and others just have new fancy name but oil base test is in part of every stack used. bat speed and arm speed can only improve with quickness drills nothing to do with muscle mass. like i said power comes from speed home runs are hit with power not strength, strength will hit a softball in slow pitch if you every seen a class a championship softball game lot of companies have teams who travel and just play for company team like steels out of ohio , these guys are huge and your score are like 38-33 have seen 3 in my life really no interest in watching something like that. But for baseball it slows bat and arms speed down so extra work is needed to be put in on speed drills and must stretch out twice as much and longer then what few players are not on it, to make sure mass does not over come flexibility. main reason as stated is for recovery rate of muscles and keeping legs under you in aug, all this is done in off season also once you get to camp and in season you just work out 2-3 times a week to matain what strides you made in the off season. Hope this helps you understand it a little more, it can and will if done right help extend a career for some, but on the other part it can break down the body when you pack to much on, prime examples consaco and big mac, they go so big to where they lost bat speed last years and joints and backs could not take all the strain from the extra loads and extra strength in your lifts, something on the body is going to give at some point when you are lifting more then body should and then play 160+ games, and the back is the first to go along with joints and tendons in elbow and shoulder, also lot of hamstring and quad strains and tears.

But i won't help hand eye coord you either have that or you don't there are some unreal ways to hone in on those skills as well as eye sight drills to improve vision,and it won't increase bat or arm speed. hope this explains it a little better to why they are used so much. you would get more from a aluminum bat in distance then any juice can give you and wiould get a pitcher killed with the use of aluminum bats even since they have toned them down in ncaa ball by maker the thickness different, the ball still comes off bat non wood a extra 20 mph faster then a wood bat, and there we are talking about speed again which equalls power, if the a-bat was used in pro ball you would see guys hit 100 + home runs and a few dead pitchers, that is why in college home run numbers are high have come down last 3 years but when a ncaa or college play has to make a change to wood it takes them a good year to get use to it and you don't see the guys who hit 15-25 home runs in college 56 games come into pro ball and hit 45 to 75 home runs in pro ball all about speed which breaks down to power. Hope I did not lose you on the last part of this post.

 

[Englishman]

Thanks for the detailed answer - what do you think of the suggestion that all records after a certain date, say 1998, should have an asterisk?

I think something should be done simply because one of the great things about BB is to compare the teams and players throughout history - I know it's never a perfect comparison because of expansion, smaller ballpark, etc. but doping over the last few years seems to have caused a massive blip in stats. Remember when Brady Anderson hit 50 one year?

Bonds is, of course, a very unlikeable character, but I feel the same way about the McGwire/Sosa fraud fest of a few years ago. It's just not fair. Also, Steriods are only available legally via a prescription - it's pure criminal activity. It just seems to take so much away from the sport itself.

I know that I don't bother going anymore, or almost never. I'm totally disillusioned by this issue. Still, attendances are high, people in general don't seem to care. It all seems like a big fraud to me, kind of like athletics!

 

[IE]

Union approves Sosa trade
By RONALD BLUM, AP Sports Writer
January 31, 2005

NEW YORK (AP) -- The trade that would send Sammy Sosa from the Chicago Cubs to the Baltimore Orioles took a step forward Monday when the players' association approved a key change to his contract that is required to complete the deal.

Chicago would receive Jerry Hairston Jr. and a pair of minor leaguers, second baseman Mike Fontenot and right-handed pitcher Dave Crouthers, in exchange for Sosa and $12 million. The trade is likely to be finalized Thursday or Friday.

Sosa's contract currently contains a provision that calls for the team's $18 million option for 2006 to become guaranteed if he is traded and for a $19 million team option for 2007 to be added, one that would carry a $4.5 million buyout. As part of the trade, Sosa will sign an addendum to his contract voiding that provision.


Commissioner Bud Selig also must approve the trade because more than $1 million will change hands in the swap, which the teams put in motion Friday night. The teams started the process of submitting documents outlining the trade to the commissioner's office, but all the necessary paperwork had not been sent in as of Monday night.

To replace some of Sosa's power, the Cubs were in negotiations with free-agent outfielder Jeromy Burnitz.

Baltimore would pay just $5 million of Sosa's $17 million salary this year, with the Cubs paying $12 million. The Orioles would assume responsibility for the 2006 option, which Baltimore would be able to buy out for $4.5 million.

In addition, Chicago would remain responsible for the $3.5 million severance pay called for in Sosa's contract, which must be given to the seven-time All-Star within 30 days after the trade is finalized. The Cubs would wind up paying $62.5 million of the $72 million Sosa was guaranteed in the four-year deal, with the Orioles paying $9.5 million.

Hairston took his physical Monday in the Phoenix area, but Sosa might not take his until Thursday.

The Cubs and Orioles did not include a 72-hour window for a contract extension. The 36-year-old outfielder has agreed to waive his right to block the trade and will go to the Orioles without an extension.

After the deal is done, Baltimore might try to negotiate a new contract with Sosa.

Selig has twice approved larger salary transfers. Texas agreed last February to send the Yankees $67 million over seven seasons in the trade that sent Alex Rodriguez to New York for Alfsono Soriano.

In November 2002, Selig approved the Mike Hampton, three-team trade, which involved $30 million -- Colorado agreed to send Florida $6.5 million over three years, and the Marlins agreed to send that money plus an additional $23.5 million over three years to Atlanta, which received the pitcher.

The money in the Sosa trade tops the other two big deals Selig approved this winter: The Yankees are paying Arizona $9 million in the trade that brought Randy Johnson to New York and Los Angeles is paying $10 million in the deal that sent Shawn Green to the Diamondbacks.

Sosa hit .253 last year, his lowest average since 1997, and had 35 homers and 80 RBIs in 126 games. His 574 homers rank seventh on the career list.

While Cubs fans supported him after he used a corked bat in 2003, he was booed last year, when he had a back injury. Then he left the ballpark during the final regular-season game last October after the Cubs had blown a wild-card lead over the final week, and criticized manager Dusty Baker.

Sosa's first game back in Chicago with the Orioles would be on May 12, the start of a four-game series against the White Sox.

Searching for a replacement for Sosa's offense, Cubs general manager Jim Hendry has talked with Scott Boras, the agent for former White Sox outfielder Magglio Ordonez, and Howard Simon, the agent for Burnitz.

Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi said Monday that while Toronto likes Ordonez, ``the price is too steep.''

``He's looking at close to $50-or-$60 million. We'll take a pass,'' Ricciardi said. ``We like the player, but there's an uncertainty with his leg. We're not prepared to commit to a long-term deal.''

Detroit and Ordonez exchanged proposals last week, and Texas has expressed interest.

 

[fletcher]

Bud will pass it hands down he would not even think about blocking it , because he owes the O's owner big time and you will see one or 2 more things approved by bud if need tat have to do with the O's because of the wash team, the O's could of really screwed it up if they wanted to.

EM I know or am sure 90% that bonds and others who broke records were juiced but the problem is it was never proven except by the human eye so really nothing you can do. baseball in the early years had players doing things to gain a edge it is not a new thing just different drugs, lot of players from the 30 to 5o's used coke and other drugs to enhance performance, for every era there has always been something in every sport used or done to gain a unfair edge. You hear more now then even you did from mid 80's to late 80's because of your fox reg sports that dtv offers and gameplan, espn was the first , then you had wtbs, wgn and the 3rd but went out wor from new york. These stations really brought sports from just regional coverage to a country coverage.

The news papers and sportscasters also blow things up more just like they do with the war in Iraq and the election coverage. Things that are negative sell better and are watched more, then just you avg everyday thing.

just don't see how with out physical proof you can put a Astrix beside a record.


And if bond is never tested dirty people can say what they want over his career he has never made much news off the field for getting in trouble he is a great father and for being a super star has lived a pretty quite life style. People can hate him if they want, the same with pete rose but bond is one of the top 10 baseball players maybe 5 to ever play the game, before he was so called all juiced up look he was the40/40 guy I mean the guy could always play and play great. It just does not bode well with some that he has turned into a linebacker looking guy the last say 4-6 years. yes at his age I know for a fact you don't gain mass you lose it don't care how well you eat and how hard you work out father time does not work the way it has looked to work on him but back to bottom line no physical proof, you can see it with the eye but that is just guessing again. But he still is one of the best and will be in that club when he is gone from here and we are all gone from here who has ever played the game.

Check out IE's story above mine and why was sammy out ? his back then go up and read my detailed juice post to you about the bat speed and what did I say goes first when you are on juice ? yes I said the back, big mac his back went first jose his back went first, that is a sure sign that your doing something you should not be doing. Cubs could of got much better out of this then they did, fans can say what they want till last year sammy was like the 2nd e.banks mr.cub. the lizard did everything he could from almost day one to alienate sammy and make it hard on him, so last year at spring training with the few blowups they had was the last straw for sammy and it effected him in the club house with some players before the lizard came to town sammy was a club house leader and easy going and never caused a problem. was a perfect guy to have as a teammate. If cubs have on of their starters get hurt again in the rotation they will be in very bade shape, I still think they will be they lost lot of off this off-season and players who left 2 names alou and sammy both had run ins with dusty more then one time. he won't be there many more years but been saying the same about the chipmunk in pittsburgh he is called that because of his cheeks not a racial slur or anything.

 

[IntenseOperator]

But i won't help hand eye coord you either have that or you don't there are some unreal ways to hone in on those skills as well as eye sight drills to improve vision.

We have a local sports talk show (Score's B&B)that has confronted what you are saying here many times. It is a common belief that the hardest thing to do is make contact in the game. That any enhancing drugs would not help in this area. The guys doing the show have said repeatedly that it has been proven that some illegal enhancing drugs (I believe the human growth hormone specifically) WILL IMPROVE eyesight. Thus, improving the ability to compete unfairly from the plate. It's not just a "strength" thing, but the fact that one can recognize a type of pitch, it's speed, and location better. Then the whole strength thing plays it's role.

I tend to believe this train of thought as your eye is basically a muscle.

I would think forearms are key to bat speed. Many a baseball player of the past and present has "popeye" arms. This being another muscle, could also be enhanced illegally and thus improve once performance from the plate.

 

[fletcher]

hgh very well could do that, never messed with it it is some bad shit it changes you body make up from the inside, risk way more then reward when dealing with hgh. bat speed comes from hips and hands, you see the big forearms because they get that way buy building strong hands and wrist so they go down as part of the hands to me, hads wrist and forearmes all work together. I do know other things like test. which is most commen used in a stack takes away vision some, well not takes away but can make things a little fuzzy, the eye drills i was talking about are made to do the same thing pick up spin and increase vision skills, you put this like mask or looks like weilding golggles over your eyes and lites flash and you have to touch the lights with your hand more to it then that but that is the basics it is a costly machaine. Like I said hgh could very well help that but i myself was dumb enough but never dumb enough to mess with hgh, it is what you see these guys with brain cancer and been a few, they were heavy into hgh also guys who drop from heart attacks at like 20's to 30's or tv wreslers how have died from heart attacks at yong age they all use to take hgh. If i was to call on single juice the most harmful to body but gives you best over all returns it would be hgh but you have to be a real fool to mess with this shit, guy have nut cancer many times from it, it is danger all the way. wish i could tell you more on it and eye sight but never needed to reserch it much because I already knew how bad the shit is on the body and long term effects is where it shows up 4-5 years after you quit playing or using it after just a mod period of time. i am mixed with some other juices with my feelings but i have only one stand when it comes to hgh stay as far away as you can , your just playing with a loaded gun that will go off in your body at sometime someway, noone does hgh and walks away for life with out some price to pay, well should not use word no-one how about not many people. it is just bad news on the body.

 

[IntenseOperator]

Thanks for the reply Fletch. Most of the info I have is from others.

Another note....

local radio has Cubs locking up Burnitz one Sosa deal is final.

 

[toastonastick]

I hope they can land burnitz!

 

[THE HITMAN]

Adios, Sam(me)

 

[IntenseOperator]

Sammy stiffed Cubs on the 87,000 fine for skipping out on the last game (BTW he did it twice)

 

[JT]

Burnitz is below average at this point. Don't let his numbers last year fool you as it was in Coors. I see probably .230 to .250 with 25 hrs. Still, if Patterson continues to improve their offense will be decent due to the infield players but problem with the infield is Normar and Todd Walker will be probably the worst DP combo in the leage defensively which would probably effect Maddux moreso then the strikeout pitchers on the staff.

 

[fletcher]

you can't stiff a fine they will take it out of his money that cubs have to pay him and players union has no power to stop it, you have 10 days to fight a fine and if not faught and won it is taken out of monies owed the player. so cubs will get that small amount of money to them or him to us it is a big amount to him it is a few innings. that is the sick part of sports now and guess who gets it in the end some way, the fan with the price of tickets, food,parking , team gear score card or program we get hit with the cost in the end and in a big way.

 

[IntenseOperator]

Fletch, they actually said, on the Cubs home station here, that he did stiff them and would be able to avoid it unless he decides on his own to pay. They went into how players are paid. He received his last check, for his work, a couple days before the end of the season. For some reason, I think he knew this.

I would think the Cubs could have put the fine into the trade somehow if they were so inclined.

 

[fletcher]

yes his last check of the year is aid a few days after last game, but he has a severnce check that team had to pay it was around 3 mill. and if he did not have that they would take it from what they are covering of his for the o's i read it all in baseball america a few weeks ago they had a story on he had not paid i thought it was 3 fines around 80,000 but it said before trade was done he got a severance check that had to be paid with in 30 days from trade and they would and could take it from there or from what they have to pick up in salary for this year he would be shorted.

so they will get there money sports show is lost and wrong this time, call them and tell them, and then tell them where and how the monies is taken back. they can look it up in union rules if they can get a copy of the rules which a sports talk station should have some pull or could call the union of and just ask them. but he will have it taken out of that check.

All players are paid different also some choose to take checks all year some choose to get paid in full from spring training till few days after last game all up to the player and how contract is set up, but player has a choice to have contract spread out over a whole year 26 weeks paid every 2 weeks for the base and all extras say you get so much if you win a batting title, hit so many hr's stuff like that you get a week after the season is over for player and team. but trust me on this one he will not get off with out the payment of the fine, they can talk all they want and it is just tlalk most of the time to market a show. they are wrong.