Hope I'm not offending any of our Muslim members but.....

xenon

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Let's learn more about Arab Socialism...

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Arab Socialism

Arab Socialism represents a historically very important political trend in the Arab world, although its influence has since diminished. The intellectual and political influence of Arab Socialism peaked during the 1950s and 60s, when it constituted the ideological basis of the Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party and, to a lesser extent, of the Nasserite movement. The term Arab Socialism itself was coined by Michel ?Aflaq, one of the founders of the Ba'ath Party, in order to distinguish his version of socialist ideology from Marxist socialism and the other types of socialism that developed in either European or other non-Western countries (China, USSR, etc.), and to highlight its authenticity and originality.

Ideology

To ?Aflaq, Arab Socialism was a necessary consequence of the quest for Arab unity and freedom, as only a socialist system of property and development would overcome the social and economic legacy of colonialism. At the same time, he vigorously rejected orthodox Marxism, considering its materialist, internationalist and atheist foundations ill-adapted to the Arab situation. While Arab Socialism endorsed much of the economic and social programme of European-style socialism, its divergent intellectual and spiritual foundations imposed some limits on its revolutionary potential: The ownership of the means of production was to be nationalized, but only within the constraints of traditional values such as private property and inheritance. "Primitive" social structures such as feudalism, nomadism, tribalism, religious factionalism and the oppression of women were to be overcome, but not at the cost of severing the social ties that constituted the Arab identity. Arab Socialism was frequently pictured as a "middle way" between the Capitalist West and the Communist East, and as a modern expression of traditional Arab values.

Arab Socialism is difficult to disentangle from the anti-colonial nationalist paradigm of the day, and this also manifested itself in the political and economic doctrines of the ideology. For example, the economic programme of Arab Socialists was often heavily focused on severing ties with the former colonial power, redistributing land that had been confiscated by settlers or foreign rulers, and creating self-reliance in the economic sphere as a means of securing political independence.

Arguably, the most notable economic manifestations of Arab Socialism were the land reforms in Egypt (1952), Syria (1963) and Iraq (1970) and the nationalization of major industries and the banking systems in those countries. In Egypt and Syria, many of these policies were later reversed. They were more successful in Iraq, possibly due to the country's oil wealth, until the beginning of the Iran-Iraq War in 1980.

Decline
Arab Socialism, woven into Arab Nationalism and Pan Arab thought, lost much of its appeal after the defeat of the Arab nations in the Six-Day War of 1967, in which Gamal Abdel Nasser's Egypt was widely discredited. While the ideology continued to hold sway for years to come, the war set in motion a fundamental rethinking of Arab politics, which many saw as the beginning of the end of the Arab Socialist era. As the Ba'ath Parties in both Iraq and Syria gradually transformed in the late 1960s from ideology-driven movements into instruments of ethnically defined, totalitarian rule, Arab Socialism lost its political importance. Today, it is no longer a major political force, although a lasting heritage of Arab Socialism is the secular character of many Arab regimes. However, Arab Socialist ideas are still widely held by intellectuals of the Arab world, and its ideas of social egalitarianism and of a 'third way' between 'egoist' capitalism and 'anti-spiritual' socialism remain important in modern Arab political thought.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Socialism
 

xenon

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Mjolnir said:
xenon, you almost seem like we're supposed to feel sorry for these people.


feel sorry no...learn your history yes

:
 

Roger Baltrey

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Xenon,

Appreicate your history lesson. The only problem is that no one is going to invest a dime in these countries if they can't control a bunch of ridiculous 18 year olds from ransacking embassies.
 

THE KOD

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xenon said:
100 years of western imperialism, domination and murder???

And it seems like only days ago we were sh!tting on the US for illegally targetting a civilian house in Pakistan and murdering 13 innocent people with a remote-controlled missile...

But yeah, they're pissed about the cartoons.
..........................................................

13 innocent people should not be sitting down to bread with 4 top al-Qaida murderers. Someone should tell them that. Its just not safe.
 

dr. freeze

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"western imperialism"

what exactly is that?

bringing commerce, health care, technology, food and water to people?

LMAO....Vladimir, get real buddy
 

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
xenon posts some gobbledy goop in an effort to mask the fact that,by any economic standard, most states in the middle east — whether characterized by monarchy, baathism, dictatorship, theocracy or arab socialism have floundered.......

there are no scientific discoveries emanating from a cairo or damascus..... it is tragic and maybe, insensitive, but nevertheless honest, to say that the contemporary arab world has lately given the world only two new developments...

the suicide-bomb belt and the improvised explosive device.

and even given that fact,it`s ironic that the technology for both are imported from the west.....

take the dependency on oil away from europe and the u.s. and the billions of petrodollars the world sends yearly to medieval regimes like iran or saudi arabia, and the other five billion of us could, to be frank, give a shit whether such self-pitying tribal and patriarchal societies wish to remain, well, tribal......

there would be no money for hezbollah, wahhabi madrassas, syrian assassination teams, or bought western apologists.....

the cartoon thing is the coup de grace...the irony to end all ironies...

islam pillaging and threatening to cut the heads off those that depict them in "cartoons" as pillagers and decapitators.....

lmao...
 

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
things may be turning around,though.....i just read that al jazeera has hired albert brooks to star in a new arab sitcom titled,"that darned jew".....


that`s encouraging....
 

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
on a more disturbing note.....any attempt at moderation or free speech is crushed like a bug....

there are reasonable muslims...unfortunately censorship,sanctions and unemployment are the reward for being reasonable...

and if that`s the end of it,he`s probably a very fortunate fellow...


"Jordan tabloid pulled after publishing Prophet Mohammed cartoons"
February 3, 2006

AMMAN -- "A Jordanian gossip tabloid was pulled from newsstands after defiantly publishing three cartoons on Thursday of Prophet Mohammed that have triggered outrage in the Muslim world, its publishing company said.

"The company decided "to immediately pull all copies from the market" and "open an investigation to identify those responsible for this abominable and reprehensible behavior", the publishers said in a statement.

It also fired editor in chief Jihad Jihad Momani.

The weekly independent Al Shihan newspaper had republished the cartoons, one of which shows the Muslim religion's founder wearing a bomb-shaped turban.

(momani got fired for 3 cartoons and publishing this horrible statement).......

"Muslims of the world, be reasonable," read a commentary by Momani that appeared alongside the cartoons.

"What brings more prejudice against Islam, these caricatures... or pictures of a hostage-taker slashing the throat of his victim in front of the cameras or a suicide bomber who blows himself up during a wedding ceremony in Amman?" wrote Momani?".....

He said that he decided to publish the offending cartoons "so people know what they are protesting about ... People are attacking drawings that they have not even seen."

But government spokesman Nasser Jawdeh condemned the newspaper's move and demanded "an immediate apology from the newspaper for this serious error". The paper could face sanctions, he said, quoted by Jordan's Petra news agency.

The 12 cartoons originally appeared in September in a Danish newspaper and were reprinted by a Christian Norwegian magazine in January.

Other publications in Europe have since published the drawings, which are considered blasphemous by Muslims because images of the Prophet are forbidden by Islam"".....

and one wonders why millions of muslims flee to the "evil" west....
 
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Toma

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The outrage of the Muslim world is inconsistent with outrage that is not show when their brethren are filmed beheading innocent construction workers and subjecting women, such as Jill Carrol to filmed episodes of weeping and begging for help.One can only wish the Muslim world could influence the violent amongst them by a similar demonstration of ourtrage.
 

xenon

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The Islamic Utopia

If utopia refers to a perfect, imaginary place, then Islam rejects such a fancy. Enmity and malice will always subsist among humans. Regarding the Jews, the Holy Qur?ān says, ?We have cast among them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection? (Qur?ān 5:64). In the same chapter, the Qur?ān also mentions a matching statement pertaining to the Christians, ?We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection? (Qur?ān 5:14). In Surah al-Baqarah, towards the end of Adam?s mentioning, Allah the Almighty said, commanding Adam and Eve directly while addressing humanity indirectly, ?Fall down, one of you a foe unto the other? (Qur?ān 2:36). Therefore, evil will always be present, causing goodness to stand distinct. If there was only day, the concept of night would not exist. Similarly, as Islamic theologians assert, if there was no evil, then goodness would not be identified as something virtuous and rewarding. Thus, in Islam, we do not find concepts of such utopias that present a remote land endowed with complete goodness and free of all evils. On the other hand, if utopian literature serves as proposals for rooting out society?s evils and replacing them with virtues, then this notion is embraced by Islam. From hereon, this latter definition of utopia will be implied by our use of the word. The Qur?ān addresses the latter utopia at various places, and pearls of practical advice, guiding Muslims to establish this utopia on earth, are spread throughout the ocean of Prophetic traditions (ahadith).

For Muslims, the perfect utopia is the society constructed by the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) himself, in the Arabian city of Madinah. Upon his appointment to the office of prophethood, Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) initiated the call to Allah and the Qur?ānic divine code of life (shariah). Within the short span of twenty-three years, the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) had transformed the desert-dwelling, nomadic, and backward Arabs into the most progressive civilization humanity has ever witnessed. Muhammad?s (صلى الله عليه وسلم) life and efforts in establishing the Islamic utopia have left such a deep impact on human civilization that Henry David Thoreau had to admit: ?Mahomet knew God did not make this world in jest? (361). Although American transcendentalism had to wait until the nineteenth-century to share its findings with the world, Arabian transcendentalism took place in the seventh-century, when God?s Messenger Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) gave mankind, in the words of I. Bruce Watson, ?a different paradigm with which to reorganize their understanding of, and place in, the world around them? (15). Is that not what Thoreau and Emerson were after? The Prophet?s outlook on life reflected divine will, whereas American transcendentalism advocated individual reflection on nature, which would be adulterated with many personal biases and desires. Muhammad?s message was not new and different from the earlier truth God had inspired in Moses and Jesus. The Qur?ān, while confirming the teachings of the previous biblical prophets, states that Muhammad?s (صلى الله عليه وسلم) message is not an innovated religion, but Islam and Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) are only the completion of the creed laid down by Adam, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus?all prophets of Allah.
 
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ImFeklhr

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I love that the cartoons are creating such a ruckus, though hope no more people are hurt by any rioting. The western world MUST retain our freedoms and never ever bow down to religious ferver.

However, a sad fact is that in many European countries publishing a cartoon that questioned/mocked the Holocaust in ANY way, shape or form would be AGAINST THE LAW.

The media in these European countries are making a great point that freedom of the press is paramount, but let's not forget folks that freedom of speech as we know it here in American is not as ingrained into Europeans minds/policy.

This is a great step of freedom, but I think it should serve as a reminder that other such censorship/laws prohibiting free speech in Europe should be strongly looked at/repealled.

As for the Islamic world getting upset. There is nothing we can do about their response. The more reasons/ability we have to ignore that part of the world, the happier I will be. They did a kick ass job cradling civilization 10,000 years ago, but they have clearly passed the baton. Let them sort out their own psychosis. When they do, they can join the rest of the world.
 

smurphy

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Mocking the holocaust is a far cry from making fun of Abraham or Moses or whoever it is that the Jews love so much - which is what would be on par with this Muhammad thing.

Which country is it against the law to mock the holocaust? I'm suprised to hear there's a law against that.
 

ImFeklhr

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I know for a fact France, Germany, Austria, and Switzerland (and others) already enforce censorship laws that make it a crime to dispute the Holocaust extermination story of six million Jewish wartime dead in ANY WAY. They are called anti-revisionist laws.

Now I am not suggesting the Holcaust never happened. It is just out of intellectual curiosity that I came apon this topic online.
The laws are vague, but can and do cast a wide net. It's not just against the law to sell Nazi memorabilia or shout "Holocaust was a lie" on the street. It is against the law to write a detailed based book questioning small elements of the historical account. EVEN if you can prove in court you are 100% correct, you can be charged with the crime.

I am honestly not sure how those laws could be interpreted to punish political satire or cartoons that addressed that topic, but who knows how slippery that slope is.

A group that promotes these laws even had a conference in the US about 7 years ago, trying to promote such laws here and in Canada.

It is very interesting.
 

dawgball

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"The company decided "to immediately pull all copies from the market" and "open an investigation to identify those responsible for this abominable and reprehensible behavior", the publishers said in a statement.

So, I guess, if I was a barbarian Muslim instead of Catholic, then I could riot every day when my religion is joked about. Oh wait a minute. I'm a free thinking adult that learned a long time ago not to act like a freaking child.

I really think Muslims are going to start WW3. I just hope the sane people of this world can unite against them and squash what trouble they cause.
 

djv

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Some it just takes longer to believe. 2000 years maybe more this chit been going on in that area. So we think we will change it. It will break us before that happens. I hope more eyes are opened. These crazies cant just go to the streets in those countries with out government approval. These folks do as told. I just hope Iraq screw up ends soon, and we get our asses out of there. Let them destroy each other if they must.
 

dawgball

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I agree for the most part, djv. but these people are just as global as we are (especially the crazies -- the normal ones are so oppressed that we hardly see them represented). They are wreaking havoc in more areas than their home country as well.
 
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