Editorial (Pgh Post Gazette) - re: Not another war

buddy

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 21, 2000
10,897
85
0
Pittsburgh, Pa.
Editorial: Not another war / This is no time for the U.S. to take on Iran

Thursday, April 13, 2006
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The latest developments in U.S. relations with Iran raise the appalling question that perhaps the Bush administration is steering the country into another major, unnecessary war in the Middle East.

There are alarming, not necessarily badly sourced, reports from Washington that the White House and the Department of Defense are considering air strikes -- perhaps even nuclear strikes -- against Iran. These would be supposedly targeted against Iran's alleged developing nuclear weapons capacity.

Another way to fulfill such U.S. intentions would not require the United States to carry out the strikes; it would be Israel, acting with U.S. sanction, performing the military attack. Such an action would have the same result, however -- another major Middle East war involving America.

While Americans are digesting these grim reports, the United States announces that it has postponed talks scheduled with Iran to discuss developments in Iraq.

The reports of U.S. military intentions against Iran are being denied by President Bush, but, given his words prior to the U.S. attack on Iraq in 2003, who is likely to believe his disclaimers?

To add to the eeriness of the pre-Iraq war echoes in the matter, Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, is heading to Tehran this week to join an IAEA team visiting Iranian nuclear sites, which Iran maintains are devoted exclusively to developing the country's peaceful nuclear energy capacity.

The United Kingdom, America's only serious ally in the Iraq "coalition of the willing," has already stated that it does not consider the circumstances dire enough to justify war against Iran.

Some may think that the Bush administration is entirely driven by domestic political motivations and, so, is cooking up another war to try to throw the 2006 congressional elections toward Republican candidates. These are Republicans who would otherwise risk paying the price at the polls for blind loyalty to the president -- which has brought an unpopular and expensive war in Iraq, spiraling budget deficits, tax cuts for the rich and ever-increasing gas prices.

Harsher critics would say the Bush administration is afraid the legislative branch will fall into the hands of Democrats, who will then carry out damaging investigations of Republican shenanigans in the White House and Congress. This contention would be supported by recent revelations that Mr. Bush himself authorized leaks of classified information to try to put steam into a weak case for the Iraq war.

Whatever is going on in our increasingly bizarre nation's capital, one thing is clear. The United States does not need another war now, and there is no case at all for a war against Iran. In addition, such a war would be very serious given Iran's size, reach and military capacity, a good deal worse than the unsuccessful operation against Iraq, which already has U.S. forces stretched to the limit.
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
Anytime a country would use nuclear weapons to stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons.

It just dont make much sense.
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
i didn`t get the solution provided by the reporter........

what was the alternative provided?....

typical liberal gobbeldygoop....hand wringing...without solutions....

if iran doesn`t believe that the military option is for real,why would they negotiate?

they`re telling the world to f-ck off..
 
Last edited:

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
mark steyn.....

"Iran," he said, "has joined the group of countries which have nuclear technology" -- i.e., this is the dawning of the age of a scary for us. "Our enemies cannot do a damned thing," he crowed, as an appreciative audience chanted "Death to America!"



The reaction of the international community was swift and ferocious. The White House said that Iran "was moving in the wrong direction." This may have been a reference to the dancers. A simple Radio City kickline would have been better. The British Foreign Office said it was "not helpful." This may have been a reference to the doves round the atom.

You know what's great fun to do if you're on, say, a flight from Chicago to New York and you're getting a little bored? Why not play being President Ahmadinejad? Stand up and yell in a loud voice, "I've got a bomb!" Next thing you know the air marshal will be telling people, "It's OK, folks. Nothing to worry about. He hasn't got a bomb." And then the second marshal would say, "And even if he did have a bomb it's highly unlikely he'd ever use it." And then you threaten to kill the two Jews in row 12 and the stewardess says, "Relax, everyone. That's just a harmless rhetorical flourish." And then a group of passengers in rows 4 to 7 point out, "Yes, but it's entirely reasonable of him to have a bomb given the threatening behavior of the marshals and the cabin crew."

That's how it goes with the Iranians. The more they claim they've gone nuclear, the more U.S. intelligence experts -- oops, where are my quote marks? -- the more U.S. intelligence "experts" insist no, no, it won't be for another 10 years yet. The more they conclusively demonstrate their non-compliance with the IAEA, the more the international community warns sternly that, if it were proved that Iran were in non-compliance, that could have very grave consequences. But, fortunately, no matter how thoroughly the Iranians non-comply it's never quite non-compliant enough to rise to the level of grave consequences. You can't blame Ahmadinejad for thinking "our enemies cannot do a damned thing."


It's not the world's job to prove that the Iranians are bluffing. The braggadocio itself is reason enough to act, and prolonged negotiations with a regime that openly admits it's negotiating just for the laughs only damages us further. The perfect summation of the Iranian approach to negotiations came in this gem of a sentence from the New York Times on July 13 last year:

"Iran will resume uranium enrichment if the European Union does not recognize its right to do so, two Iranian nuclear negotiators said in an interview published Thursday."

Got that? If we don't let Iran go nuclear, they'll go nuclear. That position might tax even the nuanced detecting skills of John Kerry.

By comparison, the Tehran press has a clear-sightedness American readers can only envy. A couple of months back, the newspaper Kayhan, owned by Ayatollah Khamenei, ran an editorial called "Our Immortality And The West's Disability," with which it was hard to disagree: Even if one subscribes to the view that sanctions are a sufficient response to states that threaten to nuke their neighbors, Mohammad Jafar Behdad correctly pointed out that they would have no serious impact on Iran but would inflict greater damage on those Western economies that take them seriously (which France certainly won't).

Meanwhile, the Washington Post offers the likes of Ronald D. Asmus, former deputy assistant secretary of state under President Clinton, arguing "Contain Iran: Admit Israel to NATO." "Containment" is a word that should have died with the Cold War, and certainly after the oil-for-food revelations: Aside from the minimal bang for huge numbers of bucks, you can't "contain" a state. Under the illusion of "containment," events are always moving, and usually in favor of the fellow you're trying to contain. But the idea that the way to "contain" Iran is to admit Israel to NATO elevates "containment" from an obsolescent striped-pants reflex to the realm of insanity.

All the doom-mongers want to know why we went into Iraq "without a plan." Well, one reason is surely that, for a year before the invasion, the energy of the U.S. government was primarily devoted to the pointless tap-dance through the United Nations, culminating in the absurd situation of Western foreign ministers chasing each other through Africa to bend the ear of the president of Guinea, who happened to be on the Security Council that week but whose witch doctor had advised against supporting Washington. Allowing the Guinean tail to wag the French rectum of the British hindquarters of the American dog was a huge waste of resources. To go through it all again in order to prevent whichever global colossus chances to be on the Security Council this time (Haiti? The South Sandwich Islands?) from siding with the Russo-Chinese obstructionists would show that the United States had learned nothing.

Bill Clinton, the Sultan of Swing, gave an interesting speech last week, apropos foreign policy: "Anytime somebody said in my presidency, 'If you don't do this, people will think you're weak,' I always asked the same question for eight years: 'Can we kill 'em tomorrow?' If we can kill 'em tomorrow, then we're not weak, and we might be wise enough to try to find an alternative way."

The trouble was tomorrow never came -- from the first World Trade Center attack to Khobar Towers to the African Embassy bombings to the USS Cole. Manana is not a policy. The Iranians are merely the latest to understand that.
 

StevieD

Registered User
Forum Member
Jun 18, 2002
9,509
44
48
72
Boston
This thing would be a whole lot easier if we had left Iraq alone. I find another interesting problem for the conservatives. What do we do with Iran? Do we negotiate? Because you guys seem to like to call everyone who negotiates weak. Or do we just nuke them. And if we should just nuke them what are we waiting for?
 

xenon

Registered User
Forum Member
Oct 3, 2005
226
1
0
StevieD said:
This thing would be a whole lot easier if we had left Iraq alone. I find another interesting problem for the conservatives. What do we do with Iran? Do we negotiate? Because you guys seem to like to call everyone who negotiates weak. Or do we just nuke them. And if we should just nuke them what are we waiting for?

The usa will get nuked by russia/china ect... you don't think the rest of the world will just watch the USA nuke another country would you? :mj07:
 

djv

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 4, 2000
13,817
17
0
Are you kidding Steve. There negotiating behind the currents where it belongs as fast as possible. There just not going to tell there followers. It's like talk tough like 12 year olds do on the street so they can say. Wow were telling them where to chit. Only problem playing the game is dangerous with a foe that can hurt you. And with our 150000 men in Iran's back yard they can hurt us. We think we seen tons of suicide bombers. Well I believe you would see them show up by the thousands in Iraq. And if there's one thing we have shown. We can't control is those bastards.
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
djv

I thought it was well known fact that Iran is supporting the bomb making and suicide bombers against our troops in Iraq.

I thought everyone knew that Bin Laden is hiding in Iran.

I thought everyone knew that Pakistan is not to be trusted.

I thought everyone knew that Putin is a back stabbing communist rat bastid.

I thought everyone knew that if the US insists on fighting with nukes to solve their problems, then everyone will be using nukes to settle things now and in the future.

I thought that everyone knew that China could give us much trouble in the future more than N Korea or Iran.
 

djv

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 4, 2000
13,817
17
0
You are correct KOD. We can not police the world. We neither have weapons or enough men to do it. China and Russia are slipping back toward cold war days. We keep running around bragging we will do this or that and we just piss the world off.
A Little humble behind the scene work is needed. But when you got dummies in D C that can't keep there mouths shut. Cheney one of the worst. You feed the resentment.
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
why doesn`t iran just stfu.....fly under the radar......play al baradei and the rest of the neutered u.n. crowd along....

play games like saddam did...

he can surely shine these enablers on until he goes hot....

and you know that china and russia will veto any u.n. sanctions or actions....and anyway,as we now know,sanctions are a joke....

soooo,why not shut your yap....and lie low...

nix the yellowcake parties and all the histrionics...at least until you have something....

back in the 50`s it was thought that russia was 10 years away from nuclear capapbility...and they had it in a couple years...they were wrong about n.korea...libya...pakistan...india..

unless....you already have something...and are trying to goad someone into a first strike.....

this guy`s angling for a fight...he`s doing everything he can to provoke the west...

and why isn`t the whole world howling at a nation that publicly states that they are going to incinerate a democracy?...definitively states this fact practically every week...

there`s something going on here....that doesn`t jive.......

internal politics?...ahmadinnerjacket hoping that a western strike on nuclear facilities will push the anti-mullah youth towards a more nationalistic,united position?...
 
Last edited:

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
gardenweasel said:
internal politics?...ahmadinnerjacket hoping that a western strike on nuclear facilities will push the anti-mullah youth towards a more nationalistic,united position?...

There's little doubt that this is a pretty big part of it. There's is nothing Iran would like better than for us to attack them. They know that we would not be able to destroy much of their nuclear capabilities with surgical strikes.

But then that gives them the excuse(in their mind and definitely in the opinion of the entire ME-'friends' and foes alike) to incite all hell in Iraq, and probably directly firing missles at our positions there. They will then surely fire missles at Israel.

GW,

You do an awful lot of jawing about not letting them 'go hot', but what specifically do you have in mind?

Your inability to see (or at least admit) how the invasion of Iraq has left us vulnerable is mind-boggling. It's not only that we are stretched way thin because of it, but also that Iran can wreak havoc on us without directly confronting us militarily.

With a couple of speeches, the mullahs in Iran can throw the shiites in Iraq into a frenzy, totally upend Iraq and throw it into even more chaos. We'd be right in the middle of it and we will have made no real inroads to the Iran problem.

Our hands are tied because of Iraq. Come on GW, you can say it! I know you can!
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/06.04.16.Crasher-X.gif

instead of arguing,how`s about we do something construtive...and meld gambling and politics?...this is,after all, a gambling site....

now that we've exhausted all the options in the "expressing grave concern" family and now that iran has made it fairly clear that diplomatic means are not going to slow them down...

and now that the liberals are making it clear that the military option is not an option at all....

why don`t we start some sort of an international office pool on which city gets nuked first?.......

tel aviv?....a small dirty bomb in the baltimore harbor?.....maybe d.c?....maybe hoover dam?....now the little sonny bono look-a-like is talking london...

it might be fun....

whattaya` think?
 
Last edited:

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
""""With a couple of speeches, the mullahs in Iran can throw the shiites in Iraq into a frenzy, totally upend Iraq and throw it into even more chaos. We'd be right in the middle of it and we will have made no real inroads to the Iran problem."


don`t you believe they`re already doing that?...with al qaeda,hezbollah and hamas?....

what inroads?.....and how,short of a military threat, do YOU suggest we get them to back down?....

do you think that just maybe...just maybe....china and or russia...who get mucho oil from iran....and who,believe me,want no part of a military showdown with the u.s.....might just decide to exert a little pressure if things get a little tight?...

otherwise,why not just sit back and laugh at us....

you know,if guys like you had their way,we`d do nothing....ever...about anything...

let me ask you...what do you think would happen if we backed poland going hot?...you think russia would get pissed?....of course...

how about the chinese with taiwan?.....or japan....you think they`d act any different than we are with iran?...n.korea with s.korea?...


i`d say they`d be much more hardline....wouldn`t you?

soooo,i actually do have a plan..unlike you liberals...

i say hit `em hard now..not invade...just hit `em hard...bury their underground facilities under tons of debris....take out their electrical infrastucture supplying the underground facilities...make `em work...make `em pay....if they`ve already gone hot,well damn.....that`s ashamed...there`ll be some collateral damage...

because the longer we wait,the harder it`s going to be....

..and if you guys whine to much...and we can`t stop `em shortly,if we can`t stop the n korea`s...the iran`s....the saudi arabia`s....from going hot....and russia and china want to sit by and let us squirm....

i say,let`s get poland`s nuclear arsenal started.....

russia will love that...how about s. korea`s.....maybe japan and taiwan........

why not play russia and china`s game?....

lets get some help....then,lets see how anxious russia and china are to let a loose cannon like ahmadinnerjacket get nukes....

these are all fairly economically stable societies....and could easily go hot in a relatively short period of time...with our help....
lets balance the table a little...

of course,because we`re responsible,we`ve discouraged other free countries from going nuclear....

but,not the bad guys that want us exterminated....

because,that`s what they want...

give `em something to think about....if all our enemies are arming to the teeth....lets give `em something to think about....

if the cat`s truly out of the bag....and you don`t give a damn about it....lets get the ball rolling...

might make `em think twice...

what`s your idea,kosar?....beside sticking your head in the sand?
 
Last edited:

StevieD

Registered User
Forum Member
Jun 18, 2002
9,509
44
48
72
Boston
They are sitting back and laughing as we piss our money away and go broke in Iraq.
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
we`re far from broke....our military`s far from overextended.....i think we`re o.k....

unless some crazed muslim student rents an s.u.v....

back on point,guys.....what`s the plan?....

btw...see my thread,"the frightening truth why iran wants the bomb"......

it will chill your blood......
 

StevieD

Registered User
Forum Member
Jun 18, 2002
9,509
44
48
72
Boston
Now to get back on topic. How do you think OBL thought he would defeat us? Did he think he could do it militarily? Of course not. He thinks he can do it financially. We are creating debts we will never be able to repay. And this debt is not coming in a productive way of creating jobs by securing our borders and strengthening our security. We are accumulating the debt by trying to rebuild Iraq, Almost half a trillion dollars so far spent and we are in worse shape than ever. Our military is stretched thin. There are rumblings from within. The administration is in chaos. Energy prices have only just started to climb. Inflation will soon set in. The housing bubble will burst. I would say Bush and his apologist played right into the hands of the terrorists. Bush and his apologists, no matter how long their articles of bull$hit might be, have been wrong every step of the way in this alleged War on Terror and just about every other issue one can think of.
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
gardenweasel said:
we`re far from broke....our military`s far from overextended.....i think we`re o.k....

Talk about having your 'head in the sand.'

And yes, of course they(Iran) are already helping to incite things in Iraq and elsewhere but not nearly as openly and to the degree that they could. Not even close.

I would agree with you on your plan if we weren't in Iraq. I just don't think we can take on a war of that magnitude right now. Invasion or not, you can believe that it will be a war.

'far from overextended.' :shrug:
 

djv

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 4, 2000
13,817
17
0
On O Reilly last night he said with good old boy Newt. We have no better intelligences for Iran then we did for Iraq. In fact Newt put it on the Bush administration for failing to be any more prepared or advanced in that area. He also mention how Iran can disrupt more then 40% of the worlds oil flow. The creek gets real narrow over there and they can cut the water way in half real easy. As Newt said we better be working inside Iran with the dissidents or were not doing it right. Newt I don't agree with much but he's right. Just waving the nuke option around does little he said. Remember folks this is the 3rd biggest oil producer in the world.
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top