ARE WE WINNING IN IRAQ ?

[kosar]

1)what would saddam be doing?

Nothing, just as he was unable to do anything for the previous 15 years.

2)why aren`t the palestinians on par with the israelis?.....on basically the same land....

Who knows? Would rather kill people than build shit I guess.

3)why not do something constructive...and give up on the idea of killing all the jews?....not to mention all the christians,hindus,buddhists........

Seems like your plan is better.

 

[bryanz]

Who are you going to bomb for 365 days? Who are you going to nuke? What are you going to do after you nuke them. The Zionists are levelling Lebanon, killing indiscriminatley, doing billions of dollars in damage demanding return of 2 soldiers, yea right.

Your questions proves my point. The war on terror can't be won in one country. Us going in , in the first place makes as much sense as bombing them for 365 days. WEASEL, we had Saddam contained. In this situations it was all or nothing and we didn't go in with all so we get nothing. I keep saying this and people don't get it. We have to fight these guys but not this way. We have superior air power and should have used it the way we were, the way the first President Bush did. This land war makes no sense, there is no end , there is no winning way out . If we were to pull out and bomb this country, at least we would be acting and sending a message of strength, sitting back and trying to accomplish the impossible on the ground shows our weakness and our hill of beans resolve to do what has to be done. We are at war, and we haven't even gotten the attention of the enemy yet. When will we get down and dirty, on their level so that they know we are in the game. If you want to play all nice nice than why waste any more minds and bodies ? If we don't have what it takes to finish the first step, in a long line of battle's to come, we should stop kidding our selves. Were not fooling the enemy. At this time and place, we need to make a bold and courageous move, something that will take the breath out of the world for a few months.

 

[JT]

What we need to do in Iraq is one of two things. Unilaterally leave that mess or stop with the PC crap and do something like General Pershing did in the Phillipines. Bury a terrorist leader like Zaraqawi with a bunch of pigs in a very public ceremony. This middle of the road crap is just getting innoent civilians and our troups hurt. One extreme or the next. NOW.

 

[djv]

Wow over 100 dead today. And this month they are up to that as average? That seems high. Not much our guys can do with civil war going on. Dam Iran Is Part of problem here to. And there back to giving us problem in Afghan to. Russia found that out. No easy answer there either. Looks more and more like we pulled our troop level down to soon there.

 

[The Judge]

ARE WE WINNING IN IRAQ ?


yes...

You can't seriously believe this.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Did Saddam and sons win--Zarchawi?--are terrorist the controling party? What % of country voted--do they have there own democrtic gov in place? Would you agree that these are objectives that have been met?

Out of curiousity what parameters are you setting that would define us losing?

 

[The Judge]

Out of curiousity what parameters are you setting that would define us losing?

My parameters are defined by the 2,556 dead American soldiers who sacrificed their lives fighting for a democracy that a God forsaken country halfway around the world will never see.

However, at least the price of gasoline is down so I guess we are ?winning? after all.

 

[The Judge]

My parameters are defined by the 2,556 dead American soldiers who sacrificed their lives fighting for a democracy that a God forsaken country halfway around the world will never see.

I guess that if you consider the fact that there have been over 40,000 confirmed Iraqi civilian deaths since the war began (British Medical Journal Lancet estimates the number to be over 100,000), maybe we are the ?winners?. :shrug:

 

[AR182]

My parameters are defined by the 2,556 dead American soldiers who sacrificed their lives fighting for a democracy that a God forsaken country halfway around the world will never see.

the fault of this war rest solely on the small shoulders of the u.n. for not enforcing their resolutions & the countries that were bought by saddam.

you are seeing the samething with israel's war. if the u.n. enforced the resolutions concerning the disarming of hezbollah, we wouldn't have this mess.

we are a society of rules & laws. laws are enforced, by & large in this country, they must be enforced worldwide.

the world cannot let the thugs do want they want....ie..iran & n.k. getting nukes.

 

[kosar]

Out of curiousity what parameters are you setting that would define us losing?

I'd like to hear about what parameters are being set for winning or losing. No such thing either way in this 'war.' It will end predictably, with the resultant chaos, whether it's tomorrow or 5 years from now.

It just depends how many more troops and how many more billions are spent before that time.

As Wayne astutely points out, they have a democracy, high voter turnout, Saddam and sons out, Al-Zarqawi dead.

He didn't mention that there is now a government that is an ally of Iran, but that's just details. Iran to Iraq to Syria to Lebanon...all the way to the Mediteranean(sp) sea. All shia dominated extremist governments. Nice. Not sure what it would take for some people to admit this was a mistake in Iraq, but whatever.

Ok, lots of objectives met. We 'won.' What are we still doing there?

 

[StevieD]

Ok, lots of objectives met. We 'won.' What are we still doing there?

i will take a stab at that.....protecting Haliburten?

Who is going to rebuild Lebanon?

 

[The Judge]

the fault of this war rest solely on the small shoulders of the u.n. for not enforcing their resolutions & the countries that were bought by saddam.

you are seeing the samething with israel's war. if the u.n. enforced the resolutions concerning the disarming of hezbollah, we wouldn't have this mess.

we are a society of rules & laws. laws are enforced, by & large in this country, they must be enforced worldwide.

the world cannot let the thugs do want they want....ie..iran & n.k. getting nukes.

Bullshit.

The fault of this "war" rests soley on the lies that our President spewed to the UN, not to mention the citizens of this country. This "war" was never about WMDs and those that continue to believe that it was are incredibly blinded by the rhetoric that our leaders have fed us.

Would some rational person please explain to me why it remains our sole responsibility to be the planet's police?

I am not interested in the standard drivel about how we are driven by a higher moral standard. I am much more interested in how we as a country, could (and should) put our own countrymen first and place less emphasis on the plight of a region of the globe that has and never will conform to our sense of morality.

The world is changing before our eyes and it is time to be selfish about the life that we as Americans have carved out for ourselves. This may sound cold-hearted but it is realistic.

While I have always been an optimist, it is clear to me that the life that we have grown comfortable with is changing right in front of our eyes. The time for idealism is fading quickly and if not now, soon it will be a time for protectionism.

 

[AR182]

Bullshit.

The fault of this "war" rests soley on the lies that our President spewed to the UN, not to mention the citizens of this country. This "war" was never about WMDs and those that continue to believe that it was are incredibly blinded by the rhetoric that our leaders have fed us.

Would some rational person please explain to me why it remains our sole responsibility to be the planet's police?

I am not interested in the standard drivel about how we are driven by a higher moral standard. I am much more interested in how we as a country, could (and should) put our own countrymen first and place less emphasis on the plight of a region of the globe that has and never will conform to our sense of morality.

The world is changing before our eyes and it is time to be selfish about the life that we as Americans have carved out for ourselves. This may sound cold-hearted but it is realistic.

While I have always been an optimist, it is clear to me that the life that we have grown comfortable with is changing right in front of our eyes. The time for idealism is fading quickly and if not now, soon it will be a time for protectionism.

as i stated in the other thread i'm tired of going about back & forth on this issue. my position on this subject is all over this forum about me agreeing with the premise of going into iraq, but i believe they didn't have enough soldiers in iraq to cover the necessary passages into that country. i've also posted numerous times about & how the un & some of the other countries sold illegal stuff to saddam, going against u.n. resolutions.

i am not a moralist so you will never hear me say anything about the u.s taking the moral high ground on anything.

 

[maverick2112]

We are being lied to on a daily basis........from 911 to Saddam to Iraq to Afganistan and it goes on and on........I am far from a conspiracy person but looking more closely at the events of 911 have changed how I feel about this Bush regime........I cant even comprehend how a knowledgable person cant see that their is something fishy going on if they do any amount of investigation........

I was thinking about this the other day........since we all gamble here and are used to studying odds.........what do you think the odds would have been for this to happen.....in less than 6 yrs
Bush wins in 2000......by the Supreme Court
Wins again in 2004 after making a large comback in Ohio in the last few hours..........

4 planes get hijacked in one morning.........in 2001
No air support from air force.........
3 buildings come down in demolition like manner from fire........
Hijackers who could not even fly Cessna's take over Jumbo Jets.....
Hijackers take over planes with boxcutters.............
Bush knows a plane(1st) hits a skyscraper and doesnt think its serious enough to cancel a reading session with school children.........
Jumbo Jet hits pentagon but no tapes availble when this should be one of the most monitored buildings on earth,,,not to mention no air support again......
all the shenanigans with the stocks of airlines in the days leading up to 911......
Pentagon releases list of hijackers but some of the ones on that list are still alive living in other countries......Where did they get this list.....
I could go on and on about 911...........

then there is afganistan......looking for Bin Laden........
on to Iraq to get Saddam and all his WMD's........

Then we have this Patriot Act to save us when frankly all it does for me is make me feel like we are giving away our liberties........

All of this to save us from terrorists......call me an idiot.....but I was never that scared of them in the first place......

I could go on and on all night......but I just think this is all part of some big picture someone in power has for their agenda and we are left to wonder whats next?????

Even if we are winning in Iraq.......I am not sure it evens matters......all that matters is whats on the agenda in the days ahead.........

Oh yeah with all this extra security I am getting these days from the government........you think they can get me back my $2800 from infinity......

 

[RAWW]

just read the old testament. there will NEVER be peace inthe middle east. the end. as for a solution. we shouldnt even be involved. let them blow each other up.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Ok so we have soildiers and civilian deaths--money so far as scorecard for losing. correct?

On that presumption every war ever fought was losing proposition?
--I would argue that point.

Casulties of troops have been minimal considering 3 years of war on two fronts--civilian deaths if accurate pale in comparison to those slaughtered during Hussein rule.

Somehow this is like an instant replay to me--
Heard this wailing from liberals and media about civilians casualties before--however they didn't have anything to say about the 1,000,000 plus that were slaughtered as result of our troops--heard the wailing about plight of troops--but they did about face when we returned.

I am hear to tell you emphatically liberals could care less about either--it's their agenda that is their primary concern.

P.S. Not directed to you Judge or anyone else on board--but primarily the liberal based media--and far left.

 

[AR182]

i am not a moralist so you will never hear me say anything about the u.s taking the moral high ground on anything.

lol...the above stement came off wrong.

of course i like to think i have morals.

but i do think that the more democracies in the region the more secure our country will be.

 

[gjn23]

We are being lied to on a daily basis........from 911 to Saddam to Iraq to Afganistan and it goes on and on........I am far from a conspiracy person but looking more closely at the events of 911 have changed how I feel about this Bush regime........I cant even comprehend how a knowledgable person cant see that their is something fishy going on if they do any amount of investigation........

I was thinking about this the other day........since we all gamble here and are used to studying odds.........what do you think the odds would have been for this to happen.....in less than 6 yrs
Bush wins in 2000......by the Supreme Court
Wins again in 2004 after making a large comback in Ohio in the last few hours..........

4 planes get hijacked in one morning.........in 2001
No air support from air force.........
3 buildings come down in demolition like manner from fire........
Hijackers who could not even fly Cessna's take over Jumbo Jets.....
Hijackers take over planes with boxcutters.............
Bush knows a plane(1st) hits a skyscraper and doesnt think its serious enough to cancel a reading session with school children.........
Jumbo Jet hits pentagon but no tapes availble when this should be one of the most monitored buildings on earth,,,not to mention no air support again......
all the shenanigans with the stocks of airlines in the days leading up to 911......
Pentagon releases list of hijackers but some of the ones on that list are still alive living in other countries......Where did they get this list.....
I could go on and on about 911...........

then there is afganistan......looking for Bin Laden........
on to Iraq to get Saddam and all his WMD's........

Then we have this Patriot Act to save us when frankly all it does for me is make me feel like we are giving away our liberties........

All of this to save us from terrorists......call me an idiot.....but I was never that scared of them in the first place......

I could go on and on all night......but I just think this is all part of some big picture someone in power has for their agenda and we are left to wonder whats next?????

Even if we are winning in Iraq.......I am not sure it evens matters......all that matters is whats on the agenda in the days ahead.........

Oh yeah with all this extra security I am getting these days from the government........you think they can get me back my $2800 from infinity......

:mj07:

the funniest thing you said is that you are not a conspiracy person.....yet you have the mental rationalization of the mel gibson character in consipracy theory.

 

[maverick2112]

gjn 23..............cant rationalize huh??............I refuse to get into personal attacks.......you are welcome to your opinion

It seems we cant get any answers from anyone.........the 911 commission was a joke that came up with some of the lamest answers ever heard of.........

Its funny anytime someone brings up some weird stuff going on........the standard response is to attack the person writing or asking the question...........

 

[gjn23]

you're right......but on that point i'm not really sure that neal armstrong was on the moon, it sure didnt look like the moon it looked like a studio in chatsworth......i also swear i saw jfk, biggie, tupac and elvis last night at in-n-out burger, i believe their deaths were all staged....i also believe that dinosaurs never roamed the earth, they were hollywood designed, digitially enhanced lizards made to sell movies and books.

it's amazing to me that people think no airplane crashed into the pentagon; instead a missle hit the building, that 9-11 was plan desiged by bush, cheney, rove to get us into war in order get halibutons stock price increased.

what's next??? fdr secretly propped up hitler for all those years until a few too many jews get executed and the only way to get him ousted was to allow the japs to bomb pearl harbor so we had an excuse to enter ww2??????