Living in an Unfree World

ImFeklhr

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Cell Phone Picture Called Obstruction Of Justice
Man Arrested For Shooting Photo Of Police Activity

http://www.nbc10.com/news/9574663/detail.html


PHILADELPHIA -- A Philadelphia family said they are outraged over the arrest of one of their family members.

The family of Neftaly Cruz said police had no right to come onto their property and arrest their 21-year-old son simply because he was using his cell phone's camera. They told their story to Harry Hairston and the NBC 10 Investigators.

"I was humiliated. I was embarrassed, you know," Cruz said.

Cruz, 21, told the NBC 10 Investigators that police arrested him last Wednesday for taking a picture of police activity with his cell phone.

Police at the 35th district said they were in Cruz's neighborhood that night arresting a drug dealer.

Cruz said that when he heard a commotion, he walked out of his back door with his cell phone to see what was happening. He said that when he saw the street lined with police cars, he decided to take a picture of the scene.

"I opened (the phone) and took a shot," Cruz said.

Moments later, Cruz said he got the shock of his life when an officer came to his back yard gate.

"He opened the gate and took me by my right hand," Cruz said.

Cruz said the officer threw him onto a police car, cuffed him and took him to jail.

A neighbor said she witnessed the incident and could not believe what she saw.

"He opened up the gate and Neffy was coming down and he went up to Neffy, pulled him down, had Neffy on the car and was telling him, 'You should have just went in the house and minded your own business instead of trying to take pictures off your picture phone,'" said Gerrell Martin.

Cruz said police told him that he broke a new law that prohibits people from taking pictures of police with cell phones.

"They threatened to charge me with conspiracy, impeding an investigation, obstruction of a investigation. ? They said, 'You were impeding this investigation.' (I asked,) "By doing what?' (The officer said,) 'By taking a picture of the police officers with a camera phone,'" Cruz said.

Cruz's parents, who got him out of jail, said police told them the same thing.

"He said he was taking pictures with his cell phone and that was obstructing an investigation," said Aracelis Cruz, Neftaly Cruz's mother.

The NBC 10 Investigators asked the ACLU union how they viewed the incident.

"There is no law that prevents people from taking pictures of what anybody can see on the street," said Larry Frankel of the American Civil Liberties Union. "I think it's rather scary that in this country you could actually be taken down to police headquarters for taking a picture on your cell phone of activities that are clearly visible on the street."

Frankel said Cruz's civil rights might have been violated.

"He was unlawfully seized, which is a violation of the 4th amendment the last time we checked," Frankel said.

Cruz, a Penn State University senior, said that after about an hour police told him he was lucky because there was no supervisor on duty, so they released him.

"They said if the supervisor was there I wouldn't be a free man and that he is letting me go because he felt that I was a good person," Cruz said.

Police told Hairston that they did take Cruz into to custody, but they said Cruz was not on his property when they arrested him. Police also denied that they told Cruze he was breaking the law with his cell phone. Cruz's famly said it has filed a formal complaint with the police department's Internal Affairs division and are requesting a complete investigation.



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The path of this country scares me more and more everyday. When was the last day, month, year where we gained a right, or a freedom?
 

djv

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Ok neighbor says police came through his gate and took him. Police say they never went in his yard to arrest him. Here we go again. Hey police have a job to do. But I can't blame them for being jumpy. They been caught doing some dumb things last few years.
 

blgstocks

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with the technological and medical breakthroughs going on everyday I believe yesterday was the ast day we GAINED a freedom. The freedom to flip open a cell phone(what used to be the size of a shoebox) and to take a picture of anything on the go was a freedom GAINED by all of us pretty recently.

I don't knwo what the big deal about taking pictures of police is, but I would be interested to hear the reason the law was passed.
 

ImFeklhr

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djv said:
Ok neighbor says police came through his gate and took him. Police say they never went in his yard to arrest him. Here we go again. Hey police have a job to do. But I can't blame them for being jumpy. They been caught doing some dumb things last few years.

Yeah, I agree that it could be another example of the police getting railroaded by attention seeking thugs. Any one incident doesn't get my violin going, but cops aren't going to refuse powers that allow them to kick butt, or make their job easier. So someone else (ordinary citizens?) have to be a check and balance when things start getting out of whack.

It's just that I can clearly see the day when some law like that does exist, and nobody questions it. Freaks me out.

blgstocks said:
with the technological and medical breakthroughs going on everyday I believe yesterday was the ast day we GAINED a freedom. The freedom to flip open a cell phone(what used to be the size of a shoebox) and to take a picture of anything on the go was a freedom GAINED by all of us pretty recently.

Life has definitly gets better via health/technology/entertainment. Wouldn't ever argue there. But freedom is a slightly more abstract concept to measure. The powers that be (governments, big coorperations, any other flavor of the week) is banking on the fact that as long as Americans have new gadgets/distractions they will be too lazy/complacent to notice freedoms we once had are slowly widdled away.

Freedoms that are hard to get back the second time around.
 

bryanz

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djv said:
Ok neighbor says police came through his gate and took him. Police say they never went in his yard to arrest him. Here we go again. Hey police have a job to do. But I can't blame them for being jumpy. They been caught doing some dumb things last few years.
I don't understand what you are trying to say. If they have been caught doing dumb things the last few years; isn't that a good thing ? I don't see how arresting a person for taking a picture of police is justice in America ? I could see Police confiscating pictures of them, if the pictures taken would compromise the identity of undercover personal. What do you mean by here we go again ? I know the police have a job to do , and it's a tough one. I don't want or condone my police force to be (JUMPY). A well trained, professional, law-full police force should not have any concerns of their picture being taken.
 

gardenweasel

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just curious...which freedoms have been whittled away and lost over the last decade or two?.....

and how has it changed your everyday lives?....
 

djv

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Bryanz you are correct police need to follow laws also not just enforce them. In this case my point was one of those old saying. He said she said and she said he said. And it almost becomes a joke. And in this case to say there was a law. And it seems not to be true was stupid. Just do your job the right way and you should have nothing to worry about. Is bottom line.
 

ImFeklhr

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gardenweasel said:
just curious...which freedoms have been whittled away and lost over the last decade or two?.....

and how has it changed your everyday lives?....

There is a list a million miles long I am sure. From mundane local rules such as enforcing low flow toilet rules, to national issues such as gun control. We have fewer rights, than before.

Campaign Finance Reform,Drug Laws,the recent bastardization of eminent domain capabilities. These are all things that lessen our individual rights of US citizens.

Whether or not they are felt by all of us everyday of our lives is immaterial to me. That shouldn't be the ruler on which freedom is measured.

The most scary losses of freedom are just starting now. The mechanisms are in place for the government to really go to town on our right to privacy.

General rights to due process and habeas corpus have swung in the governments favor. The 4th amendment vis a vis unreasonable search and seizure.

Warrant-less wiretapping: One of the more bold and invasive loss of freedoms so far this century.

See: NSA/Hayden...

The new ability to search peoples homes without informing them. The weakening of the Knock and Announce rules when enforcing a warrant. It goes on and on.

Much of it is under the guise of fighting terrorism. And much of that is true. I am sure most of it is done harmlessly against fighting terrorism. Unfortunately, we will never know, because they don't ever have to tell us. And now the mechanisms for these types of privacy infringements are in place.
I am scared that the next person in charge of this wiretapping technology won't be as freedom loving and Constitution protecting as the current NSA and White House Administration. Currently, we are super lucky that those in charge of these programs are 100% benevolent and take every precaution to ensure citizens of the United States never lose freedom.

But, what if we someday have an administration made up of bad/greedy/freedom hating people who don't care about our right to privacy. Who don't care about following the rules when searching and seizing property. That scares me. :scared :scared


Obviously it is a huge topic.
 

RAYMOND

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AMERCICAN ARE LOSING THERE FREEDOM FOR SURE , THIS COUNTRY IS GOING BACKWARD FOR SURE
 

gardenweasel

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eminent domain is an excellent example....kudos ...

gun control?....maybe to a much lesser extent...amazing that progressives are behind these initiatives....in the case of eminent domain,the more liberal wing of the supreme court.....

toilet flow restrictions?....lol

""The most scary losses of freedom are just starting now. The mechanisms are in place for the government to really go to town on our right to privacy.""

you`re living in a theoretical world...you know no one that`s had their rights abridged due to nsa wiretapping or the patriot act...

not one...

other than eminent domain,you`re grasping....but,that was an excellent example...

if you want to get theoretical,those laws(nsa/patriot act) may very well have saved your ass....or mine......or may well in the future....

although,i must admit that the day after i criticicized the administration on the ports deal,my car radio was stolen .....

hmmmmm?.....bush and cheney?:SIB (those evil/ magnificent bastards are amazing)...
 

ImFeklhr

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Ah well. I know it is a complex world with complex problems. But there are thousands of new laws added to the books each year (between federal and local), and rarely is a law added to give a citizen a right to do more. Usuallly these laws prevent one more action that used to be free/allowed. It's a pet peeve.

I don't think any of those examples are grasping, and in fact some of the sillier examples really add up (over regulation/taxation etc). We live in a coutry where the average citizen has less expectation/appreciation of freedom, than they should.

As for the privacy stuff, as soon as any one of our phones are tapped/traced without a warrent, our freedom has been infringed. Whether or not we were doing something wrong, or even if we do or don't become aware of the infringement.

I can't approach it with the attitude "If you aren't doing anythig wrong, then you have nothing to worry about."

Thank god some of it is still just in the "theoretical problem" category. But that is the best time to question a law (oh wait, some of the privacy infringements aren't actually laws, they are just tapping the phones because nobody is/can stop them.)

It boils down to an agree to disagree situation. I'm just dissapointed more people don't agree with me!

Regardless, we'll survive. Still a great country. Nobody is stopping me from getting silly on Jack Daniels tonight.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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think about it for a minute--when is last time that you saw ACLU or anyone complain about loss of freedom when it wasn't protecting a criminal-terrorist-porn king ect.
 

ImFeklhr

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DOGS THAT BARK said:
think about it for a minute--when is last time that you saw ACLU or anyone complain about loss of freedom when it wasn't protecting a criminal-terrorist-porn king ect.


The ACLU isn't the ruler I measure liberty with either. They are one advocate for freedom. But the problem is they have a very political leaning. We all know what that leaning is. No need to delve into it.

But they can still be an ally on some issues, and I will look to others for other issues. I don't need some group I can agree with 100% of the time, nor should anyone blindly follow OR blindly reject a group that fights for freedom.

I'm all for porn-king rights, and sometimes even some rights for criminals, but I never mentioned the ACLU.

Whether or not the ACLU fights government privacy infringements or not, someone should.

The government should live in "fear" of the citizens, not the other way aroud.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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I think otherwise--I believe pedophiles-rapists-murders-terrorist ect should be the ones that live in fear and not be protected by rights groups.

As for as the porn I am talking exclusively about child porn--I probably had 1st Playboy and Hustler in my neighborhood as a child :)
---but prefer golf more now--get more holes in and enjoyment last MUCH longer.
 
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smurphy

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DOGS THAT BARK said:
think about it for a minute--when is last time that you saw ACLU or anyone complain about loss of freedom when it wasn't protecting a criminal-terrorist-porn king ect.
They were the main force against the banning of kids wearing USA t-shirts at school in Oceanside, CA during all those immigrant protests. It's funny though - O'Reilly and his type didn't give them any props for that even though it was right up their alley. ACLU probably gets involved in a lot of noble fights, but the negative ones are the only ones that get any publicity. Something to do with the politics of their critics I guess.
 

djv

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DTB last part of your thoughts. LOL I agree. Golf many more holes.
 

cooz3

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im a little confused..what is the debate?...a citizen takes a picture of a police arrest and is then taken into cutsody...are you kidding me?...every citizen in every major city is recorded every day...and the last time i checked taking pictures was not a crime when in plain view and not "obscene." further, the last time I checked police were to serve and protect the public..unfortunately that concept no longer exists in this country...AND THIS IS NOT BAD MOUTHING POLICE..just a fact

cooz
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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"ACLU probably gets involved in a lot of noble fights"

I'm willing to listen --name some?
When your done I'll start on my list and we'll compare notes--fair enough?
 

smurphy

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I just named one. Not going to research further. If you don't want to acknowledge, then I'll go ahead and give in to whatever you say. wILL NEVer actually do research for the sake of this site. Learned long ago that it's pointless.
 
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