food for thought

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Is this really a trend we want to reverse?

The chart above (click to enlarge) shows the increasing energy efficiency of the U.S. economy, using data from the Energy Information Administration, updated recently through 2008.
As recently as 1970, it required 18,000 BTUs of energy for each real dollar of GDP produced, and by 2008 the energy required per dollar of real GDP has been reduced by more than 50%, to only 8,520 BTUs per real dollar of GDP. So the U.S. economy has more than doubled its overall energy efficiency in only 38 years.

Bottom Line: The U.S. economy has never been more energy efficient than it is today, and it just keeps getting more and more efficient every year as we find ways to produce more and more output with less and less energy. Amid all of the gloom and doom, this seems like something to celebrate. Over time, we're not becoming energy gluttons, we're actually becoming energy misers

 

[znine_7]

Funny how something so positive gets crickets...isn't it? Apparently only topics that incite negativity and name calling are worth discussing here in this section of the forum.

Good post DTB...... I think that's pretty darn cool!!!

 

[Lumi]

Great info,

I wish it were true for me in the summer when my A/C runs 28 hours a day when the temps in July thru Sept AVG 113. Hasn't been below 115 for 6 day's, and counting..... but of course, there are always asshat HOA's who don't allow you to have Solar Panels :thefinger :thefinger Great huh? The fargin' sun shines here 345+ days, don't want to take advantage of that !

 

[kosar]

Funny how something so positive gets crickets...isn't it? Apparently only topics that incite negativity and name calling are worth discussing here in this section of the forum.

Good post DTB...... I think that's pretty darn cool!!!

Yes, it's certainly 'cool', but exactly would you have people post in response to this? Ok, it's nice that energy costs are reasonable.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Matt I love to see them get hydrogen-solar-wind and other renewables cost effective--but until they do I'm for the most economical way--and that goes double for our industries that have tough time competing as is with cost of labor in emerging countries.

--and India just gave Hilliary the verbal finger on their intent and you can add china.

Can't say I blame them--we started out an emerging country at one time and rose to the top by virtue of being the most polluting/industrialized country in the world--and now want to tell others emerging--hey don't do as we do--do as we say.

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Don't you think that technological advances are the cause for the trend? Just because we're spending less on it doesn't mean squat. The consumption and dependence is the scary part.

 

[Chadman]

Sure, that's easy, Wayne. Let's just use what we have, continue to benefit those that are doing everything in their power (literally) to prevent anything else from being used (including the last administration), because nothing new can be done cost-effectively. Let's continue to be held hostage by foreign oil, and oil in general, and don't do anything to promote anything else as a country. The only solution I've seen from you or anyone else is to keep things the same, and accelerate drilling here to do more of the same.

Please, share any positive ideas other than dirty power and oil, that you think could or should be pursued, and do you think any of those entities will make that step on their own? It can be looked at as an economic issue moving forward in a positive way, too, but you dismiss that. It's only negative moving forward, to hear you tell it. Renewables and other forms of energy can make us safer and better off economically as a country in the long run, and as any good businessman will tell you, sometimes you have to spend money to make money.

 

[ferdville]

Maybe a recession is not the time to spend money to make money. Though if you spend it wisely you gain both immediate and long term profits. However, the "new" energies will not be cost effective for many years and that's what many people have a problem with. There is abundant oil not only here on our coasts, but Canada, Alaska and Mexico are loaded with oil. Mexico production is pitiful because they have not kept their facilities current and in many cases they are producing less than 50% capacity. Canada has different types of oil available as well, including oil in their earth which can be extracted but, of course, at a higher cost. We've just seen the tip of the iceburg in Alaska. Yes, the greening of the earth is a good thing. But maybe instead of going full speed ahead with electriity, hydrogen, windmills and the like, we could continue cultivating our oil. Phasing it out while we develop better technology seems to make sense. Using oil from places other than the Middle East and Venezuela will also cause great benefits.

 

[bryanz]

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html

 

[bryanz]

Is this really a trend we want to reverse?

The chart above (click to enlarge) shows the increasing energy efficiency of the U.S. economy, using data from the Energy Information Administration, updated recently through 2008.
As recently as 1970, it required 18,000 BTUs of energy for each real dollar of GDP produced, and by 2008 the energy required per dollar of real GDP has been reduced by more than 50%, to only 8,520 BTUs per real dollar of GDP. So the U.S. economy has more than doubled its overall energy efficiency in only 38 years.

Bottom Line: The U.S. economy has never been more energy efficient than it is today, and it just keeps getting more and more efficient every year as we find ways to produce more and more output with less and less energy. Amid all of the gloom and doom, this seems like something to celebrate. Over time, we're not becoming energy gluttons, we're actually becoming energy misers

God, why does it take so long for the brilliance to sink in ?

 

[bryanz]

I am on your side..... why does it take , this to be ?

 

[bryanz]

Funny how something so positive gets crickets...isn't it? Apparently only topics that incite negativity and name calling are worth discussing here in this section of the forum.

Good post DTB...... I think that's pretty darn cool!!!

it got crickets because I didn't see it..... This chart ='s what a chart of unemployment under bush/cheney was and what it's bottom line effect was to working Americans and the groth of our economy... Yes we have become more efficient over time because of technology.. BUT the cost of energy still has a stranglehold on middle and poor working America because of their (WAGES)... #'s and charts can tell a story... But is it the complete story ???? CASE IN POINT : GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE #'S..... GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE CHARTS BEFORE THE ECONOMY WENT INTO THE DUMPSTER... THE #'S WERE GOOD THE FUNDAMENTALS WERE STRONG... YOUR STILL A SUCKER, YOU STILL BELIEVE THE #S.... FUCK THE #'S.... LOOK AROUND YOU... ARE YOU GOING TO BELIEVE YOUR #'S OR YOUR EYES ?? YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A SMART GUY ... IT'S A FUCKING SHELL GAME ! We of all people should know that.... As gamblers,,,,, if #'s & charts all added up we would all be rich ! This chart get's a (B) for bullshit on the botton line scale.... If you think this chart has any value in the REAL WORD ::::: I have some ocean front property in Az, call me ..... I'm surprised the Weasel hasn't chimed in and told us all to wake the fuck up !!!:mj07: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6reQLzgywzk.......http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bush+fundamentals+of+the+economy+are+strong&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

 

[bryanz]

Funny how something so positive gets crickets...isn't it? Apparently only topics that incite negativity and name calling are worth discussing here in this section of the forum.

Good post DTB...... I think that's pretty darn cool!!!

I checked, your 30, I was as smart as you when I was 30.... DTB should know better...

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Sure, that's easy, Wayne. Let's just use what we have, continue to benefit those that are doing everything in their power (literally) to prevent anything else from being used (including the last administration), because nothing new can be done cost-effectively. Let's continue to be held hostage by foreign oil, and oil in general, and don't do anything to promote anything else as a country. The only solution I've seen from you or anyone else is to keep things the same, and accelerate drilling here to do more of the same.

Please, share any positive ideas other than dirty power and oil, that you think could or should be pursued, and do you think any of those entities will make that step on their own? It can be looked at as an economic issue moving forward in a positive way, too, but you dismiss that. It's only negative moving forward, to hear you tell it. Renewables and other forms of energy can make us safer and better off economically as a country in the long run, and as any good businessman will tell you, sometimes you have to spend money to make money.

I thought I made it clear I am for renewable energy--just not force fed at bankrupting prices.

Build a better mouse trap/free enterprise.

1st I don't like to be conned on the pretense of global warming imposed hysteria--1st it was global warming--nope its now cooling so we'll change to a catch all and call it "climate change" so we'll be correct what ever happens.

--but am for keeping our environment as clean as possible.

How about this--all you in the blue states are mandated to abide by liberals carbon taxes--and all those in red states will have business as usual.

Within a year you'd be screaming bloody murder on your utilty cost plus have no business's to get a job as they would all move to friendlier confines.

Then consider U.S. vs emerging countries in same scenerio--

I share your vision for cleaner fuels and environment Chad--but not at current consequences--and not on the pretense of the greatest con since the 70's global cooling con

 

[bryanz]

I thought I made it clear I am for renewable energy--just not force fed at bankrupting prices.

Build a better mouse trap/free enterprise.

1st I don't like to be conned on the pretense of global warming imposed hysteria--1st it was global warming--nope its now cooling so we'll change to a catch all and call it "climate change" so we'll be correct what ever happens.

--but am for keeping our environment as clean as possible.

How about this--all you in the blue states are mandated to abide by liberals carbon taxes--and all those in red states will have business as usual.

Within a year you'd be screaming bloody murder on your utilty cost plus have no business's to get a job as they would all move to friendlier confines.

Then consider U.S. vs emerging countries in same scenerio--

I share your vision for cleaner fuels and environment Chad--but not at current consequences--and not on the pretense of the greatest con since the 70's global cooling con

YOU sound like a flaming liberal... you have NEVER SEEN A POST FROM ME ON THE ENVIRONMENT... Fuck the environment it's all about the econmony... YOU DON'T GIVE LIP SERVICE TO THE ENVIORNMENT, JUST go to work, create wealth and to the best you can.... the environment is not going to stand in the way of most CAPITALIST taking care of their OBLIGATIONS....This post is worse than CRICKETS ! PURE BULLSHIT !

 

[Chadman]

Ferd (and Wayne), I personally agree with offshore drilling, at least the proposal that kept it to 50 miles or more offshore. I also don't fully understand why we cannot drill in the fertile area of Alaska, I have not really seen anything that should prevent that with the way companies can maintain and take care of the environment these days.

However, as for being "all for renewables" and that line of talk, I don't think that's completely true. Republicans in general and economic conservatives merely give that lip service to sound like they really care, and I think this is more of the same. It really doesn't matter WHEN the subject comes up - in good economic times or bad - it's never a good time to try to promote those new sources of energy with any financial backing. And that is what it will take to make anything happen in the near future, and what it will take to get our country more self-sufficient energy-wise and economic-wise.

Same thing with health care, but that's a story for another thread(s). If you personally don't agree with a topic or idea, there never seems to be a good time to work on it, if money is a way to fix it. It sounds great to say "I'm for it," but never coming up with anything to make it happen leaves it simply as a sound bite to sound good.

 

[znine_7]

I checked, your 30, I was as smart as you when I was 30.....

Honestly, I was just looking to spur some conversation on a topic that although looked promising, had zero responses in 24 hours. My comment was strictly based on what I read off the chart. I gave little to no thought about it as a whole.


You make some good points and although I understand the meaning of your above comment, I highly doubt it.