are we

RAYMOND

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Are we at war -- or not?

For if we are at war, why is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed headed for trial in federal court in the Southern District of New York? Why is he entitled to a presumption of innocence and all of the constitutional protections of a U.S. citizen?

Is it possible we have done an injustice to this man by keeping him locked up all these years without trial? For that is what this trial implies -- that he may not be guilty.
And if we must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that KSM was complicit in mass murder, by what right do we send Predators and Special Forces to kill his al-Qaida comrades wherever we find them? For none of them has been granted a fair trial.
When the Justice Department sets up a task force to wage war on a crime organization like the Mafia or MS-13, no U.S. official has a right to shoot Mafia or gang members on sight. No one has a right to bomb their homes. No one has a right to regard the possible death of their wives and children in an attack as acceptable collateral damage.
Yet that is what we do to al-Qaida, to which KSM belongs.


We conduct those strikes in good conscience because we believe we are at war. But if we are at war, what is KSM doing in a U.S. court?

Minoru Genda, who planned the attack on Pearl Harbor, a naval base on U.S. soil, when America was at peace, and killed as many Americans as the Sept. 11 hijackers, was not brought here for trial. He was an enemy combatant under the Geneva Conventions and treated as such.

When Maj. Andre, the British spy and collaborator of Benedict Arnold, was captured, he got a military tribunal, after which he was hanged. When Gen. Andrew Jackson captured two British subjects in Spanish Florida aiding renegade Indians, Jackson had both tried and hanged on the spot.
Enemy soldiers who commit atrocities are not sent to the United States for trial. Under the Geneva Conventions, soldiers who commit atrocities are shot when caught.
When and where did Khalid Sheikh Mohammed acquire his right to a trial by a jury of his peers in a U.S. court?
When John Wilkes Booth shot Abraham Lincoln, alleged collaborators like Mary Surratt were tried before a military tribunal and hanged at Ft. McNair. When eight German saboteurs were caught in 1942 after being put ashore by U-boat, they were tried in secret before a military commission and executed, with the approval of the Supreme Court. What makes KSM special?
Is the Obama administration aware of what it is risking by not turning KSM over to a military tribunal in Guantanamo?
How does Justice handle a defense demand for a change of venue, far from lower Manhattan, where the jury pool was most deeply traumatized by Sept. 11? Would not KSM and his co-defendants, if a change of venue is denied, have a powerful argument for overturning any conviction on appeal?
Were not KSM's Miranda rights impinged when he was not only not told he could have a lawyer on capture, but that his family would be killed and he would be water-boarded if he refused to talk?
And if all the evidence against the five defendants comes from other than their own testimony under duress, do not their lawyers have a right to know when, where, how and from whom Justice got the evidence to prosecute them? Does KSM have the right to confront all witnesses against him, even if they are al-Qaida turncoats or U.S. spies still transmitting information to U.S. intelligence?
There have been reports that in the trials of those convicted in the first World Trade Center bombing, sources and methods were compromised, weakening our security for the second attack on Sept. 11.
If the trial is held in lower Manhattan, how much security will be needed to protect against a car bomber who wants the world to see a mighty blow struck against the Great Satan? And if, as some suggest, the trial should be held on Governor's Island, would that not make the United States look like a nation under siege?

What do we do if the case against KSM is thrown out because the government refuses to reveal sources or methods, or if he gets a hung jury, or is acquitted, or has his conviction overturned?
In America, trials often become games, where the prosecution, though it has truth on its side, loses because it inadvertently breaks one of the rules.
The Obamaites had best pray that does not happen, for they may be betting his presidency on the outcome of the game about to begin.
 

THE KOD

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I think George W and President Cheney are going to look awful bad during a trial

maybe even call George W to the stand to tell what he knows.

can he declare the fifth 500 times :scared :142smilie
 

hedgehog

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what is sickening is that Obama and his minions are going to put the techniques and the previous administration on trial instead of the terrorists. All this leads me to believe Obama is an extreme devout muslim.

These terrorists will not be convicted as they will not get a fair trial , according to their scumbag attorneys, set free and hit us again, just watch. Its just another reason to buy more bullets and guns to protect yourself.

Trust in our government is null and void at this time.
 

Lumi

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I think George W and President Cheney are going to look awful bad during a trial

maybe even call George W to the stand to tell what he knows.

can he declare the fifth 500 times :scared :142smilie

He might screw up and declare the wrong ammendment :shrug:

He might break down and tell the truth, like the end of every Perry Mason :shrug:
 

Trampled Underfoot

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what is sickening is that Obama and his minions are going to put the techniques and the previous administration on trial instead of the terrorists. All this leads me to believe Obama is an extreme devout muslim.

These terrorists will not be convicted as they will not get a fair trial , according to their scumbag attorneys, set free and hit us again, just watch. Its just another reason to buy more bullets and guns to protect yourself.

Trust in our government is null and void at this time.

You call yourself American but you don't believe in anything our country was founded on.
 

THE KOD

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what is sickening is that Obama and his minions are going to put the techniques and the previous administration on trial instead of the terrorists. All this leads me to believe Obama is an extreme devout muslim.

These terrorists will not be convicted as they will not get a fair trial , according to their scumbag attorneys, set free and hit us again, just watch. Its just another reason to buy more bullets and guns to protect yourself.

Trust in our government is null and void at this time.
..............................................................

yeh as soon as I mention it then the lightbulb comes on. huh

maybe it would do the world good to know that we do not allow corruption and demagogs using war to get rich.

Of course Bush and Cheney have nothing to fear from courts. They did nothing wrong.

uh oh :scared
 

Lumi

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Scott,
the frightening this is the amount of people who are dipping their spoons into the soup.

It is easy to throw spit balls at the stage clown, but who is directing it all remains unscaithed, so far.

Now, thanks to AL Gore, :shrug: :mj07: we have the internet to discuss these issues, hopefully rationally :142smilie to come up with solutions to spray all the bird shit off our driveways.

I don't know about your family life, but my 3 children live 1200+ miles away, and every day I wake up, I wake up in a bit of panic and fear for them.

1) Because of the sick fuckers that are out there !
Don't cross me or my kids, because I can go beyond what anyone can imagine.

2) What the future holds for them.
Maybe you have seen the not so peaceful protests here in CA over the 32% admission hikes in the CA University System. Unless of course you have the reading ability of a 5 year old and can shoot hoops or catch passes.
 

Lumi

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MY THIRD EX WIFE
 

THE KOD

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Scott,
the frightening this is the amount of people who are dipping their spoons into the soup.

It is easy to throw spit balls at the stage clown, but who is directing it all remains unscaithed, so far.

Now, thanks to AL Gore, :shrug: :mj07: we have the internet to discuss these issues, hopefully rationally :142smilie to come up with solutions to spray all the bird shit off our driveways.

I don't know about your family life, but my 3 children live 1200+ miles away, and every day I wake up, I wake up in a bit of panic and fear for them.

1) Because of the sick fuckers that are out there !
Don't cross me or my kids, because I can go beyond what anyone can imagine.

2) What the future holds for them.
Maybe you have seen the not so peaceful protests here in CA over the 32% admission hikes in the CA University System. Unless of course you have the reading ability of a 5 year old and can shoot hoops or catch passes.

.............................................................

Thats alot to cover there

not sure where to begin.
 

THE KOD

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kosar

they are going to put on a trial for the terrorists

and think about who is going to have to prosecute this and put the bad guys in jail ?

oh shit

that means facts will have to be brought up about what happened and when.

Oh shit


PS - glad I dont need the helicoptors no more
 

RAYMOND

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kosar

they are going to put on a trial for the terrorists

and think about who is going to have to prosecute this and put the bad guys in jail ?

oh shit

that means facts will have to be brought up about what happened and when.

Oh shit


PS - glad I dont need the helicoptors no more
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

THE KOD

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Yet to be identified

..........................................................

listen

if yu want some free advise I will give it to you .

do with it what you will.

kosar is someone you dont fawk with

he has connections you dont even want to know about

its not that hard to steer clear here and there.
 

RAYMOND

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..........................................................

listen

if yu want some free advise I will give it to you .

do with it what you will.

kosar is someone you dont fawk with

he has connections you dont even want to know about

its not that hard to steer clear here and there.

kurby
 
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