One Trillion for Two Wars

kcwolf

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 1, 2000
7,224
21
0
Iowa City
By Rep. Alan Grayson

On May 30, 2010, at 10:06 a.m, the direct cost of occupying Iraq and Afghanistan will hit $1 trillion.

And in a few weeks, the House of Representatives will be asked to vote for $33 billion of additional "emergency" supplemental spending to continue the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan. There will be the pretense of debate -- speeches on the floor of both chambers, stern requests for timetables or metrics or benchmarks -- but this war money will get tossed in the wood chipper without difficulty, requested by a president who ran on an anti-war platform. Passing this legislation will mark the breaking of another promise to America, the promise that all war spending would be done through the regular budget process. Not through an off-budget swipe of our Chinese credit card.

The war money could be used for schools, bridges, or paying everyone's mortgage payments for a whole year. It could be used to end federal income taxes on every American's first $35,000 of income, as my bill, the War Is Making You Poor Act, does. It could be used to close the yawning deficit, supply health care to the unemployed, or for any other human and humane purpose.

Instead, it will be used for war. Because, as Orwell predicted in 1984, we've reached the point where everyone thinks that we've always been at war with Eastasia. Why?

Not because Al Qaeda was sheltered in Iraq. It wasn't. And not because Al Qaeda is in Afghanistan. It isn't. Bush could never explain why we went to war in Iraq, and Obama can't explain why we are 'escalating' in Afghanistan.

So, why? Why spend $1 trillion on a long, bloody nine-year campaign with no justifiable purpose?

Remember 9/11, the day that changed everything? That was almost a decade ago. Bush's response was to mire us in two bloody wars, wars in which we are still stuck today. Why?

I can't answer that question. But I do have an alternative vision of how the last 10 years could have played out.

Imagine if we had decided after 9/11 to wean ourselves off oil and other carbon-based fuels. We'd be almost ten years into that project by now.

Imagine if George W. Bush had somehow been able to summon the moral strength of Mahatma Gandhi, Helen Keller, or Martin Luther King Jr, and committed the American people to the pursuit of a common goal of a transformed society, a society which meets our own human needs rather than declaring "war" on an emotion, or, as John Quincy Adams put it, going "abroad, in search of monsters to destroy".

Imagine.

Imagine that we chose not to enslave ourselves to a massive military state whose stated goal is "stability" in countries that never have been "stable", and never will be.

Imagine.
 

Trench

Turn it up
Forum Member
Mar 8, 2008
3,974
18
0
Mad City, WI
Thanks KC. Anything by Grayson's worth reading. I hope Grayson runs in 2012. HE could actually turn Obama into a one-termer. It sure won't be a Republican.

Trench
 

Trampled Underfoot

Registered
Forum Member
Feb 26, 2001
13,593
164
63
Its like crickets in here. The neo-cons don't want to pay to help any American citizens, but to kill innocent civilians around the world. Hey no problem. Here is another trillion.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,451
132
63
Bowling Green Ky
Someone might ask Grayson to put # on what 911 cost--believe it was over trillion on economy in in single event--

So is his philosphy let it go/don't retaliate and maybe it won't happen again really a cost saver?--got news for him--didn't work 1st time around when they bombed the twin towers.

Now I might agree on length of wars and cost (in money and lives).

Also while others say Afgan is correct war and not Iraq--I differ.

If Iraq continues as democracy and ally it will have huge impact on middle east.

I don't expect that is possible in Afgan because of terrain( population spread thin across vast areas) and economy based mostly on drugs.
I don't think Afgan can be saved.

I would be for fewer troops in Afgan but beefed up logistical support.

I like implementation of stepped up drone attacks this admin has taken however they need to do something last amin failed to do and that is keep press out of there.Press is currently climbing on with all the "civilian casualties" once again. While there may be a few --there is no question if enemy thinks they are getting traction on it--they will kill women and children and drag them to the scene--or operate with them as shields.
 

lowell

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 6, 2003
9,177
89
48
this is the same alan grayson that said " 44000 people die each year because they do not have health insurance..same as the holocaust." a million people died per year as result of holocaust. he is only off by 956000 per year but why bother with facts.
 

Trench

Turn it up
Forum Member
Mar 8, 2008
3,974
18
0
Mad City, WI
Someone might ask Grayson to put # on what 911 cost--believe it was over trillion on economy in in single event--
Making up "facts" again are we DTGumby? That's the most ridiculous statement I've read in quite some time.

If Iraq continues as democracy and ally it will have huge impact on middle east.

I don't expect that is possible in Afgan because of terrain( population spread thin across vast areas) and economy based mostly on drugs.
I don't think Afgan can be saved.

I would be for fewer troops in Afgan but beefed up logistical support.

I like implementation of stepped up drone attacks this admin has taken however they need to do something last amin failed to do and that is keep press out of there.Press is currently climbing on with all the "civilian casualties" once again. While there may be a few --there is no question if enemy thinks they are getting traction on it--they will kill women and children and drag them to the scene--or operate with them as shields.
Why don't you ask yourself "Why" we're in Afghanistan? The NSA estimates there are approx. 100 Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. So we're at WAR, spending billions of dollars a day, causing the deaths of American troops and Afgan civilians every day to track down 100 Al Qaeda? It's both irrational and obscene.

Trench
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,495
256
83
Victory Lane
From The Sunday Times May 30, 2010

Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran
i Mahnaimi in Tel Aviv

Three German-built Israeli submarines equipped with nuclear cruise missiles are to be deployed in the Gulf near the Iranian coastline.

The first has been sent in response to Israeli fears that ballistic missiles developed by Iran, Syria and Hezbollah, a political and military organisation in Lebanon, could hit sites in Israel, including air bases and missile launchers.

The submarines of Flotilla 7 ? Dolphin, Tekuma and Leviathan ? have visited the Gulf before. But the decision has now been taken to ensure a permanent presence of at least one of the vessels.

The flotilla?s commander, identified only as ?Colonel O?, told an Israeli newspaper: ?We are an underwater assault force. We?re operating deep and far, very far, from our borders.?

Each of the submarines has a crew of 35 to 50, commanded by a colonel capable of launching a nuclear cruise missile.

The vessels can remain at sea for about 50 days and stay submerged up to 1,150ft below the surface for at least a week. Some of the cruise missiles are equipped with the most advanced nuclear warheads in the Israeli arsenal.

The deployment is designed to act as a deterrent, gather intelligence and potentially to land Mossad agents. ?We?re a solid base for collecting sensitive information, as we can stay for a long time in one place,? said a flotilla officer.

The submarines could be used if Iran continues its programme to produce a nuclear bomb. ?The 1,500km range of the submarines? cruise missiles can reach any target in Iran,? said a navy officer.

Apparently responding to the Israeli activity, an Iranian admiral said: ?Anyone who wishes to do an evil act in the Persian Gulf will receive a forceful response from us.?

Israel?s urgent need to deter the Iran-Syria-Hezbollah alliance was demonstrated last month. Ehud Barak, the defence minister, was said to have shown President Barack Obama classified satellite images of a convoy of ballistic missiles leaving Syria on the way to Hezbollah in Lebanon.

Binyamin Netanyahu, the prime minister, will emphasise the danger to Obama in Washington this week.

Tel Aviv, Israel?s business and defence centre, remains the most threatened city in the world, said one expert. ?There are more missiles per square foot targeting Tel Aviv than any other city,? he said.
................................................................


Lets see .

You want to stop someone from developing nukes , so you decide to send nuke submarines
to the area.

not sure that is a good idea.

I think Isreal is afraid of a nuke being used on them if they attack by planes.

A pre emptive attack with nukes ?
 

Trench

Turn it up
Forum Member
Mar 8, 2008
3,974
18
0
Mad City, WI
this is the same alan grayson that said " 44000 people die each year because they do not have health insurance..same as the holocaust." a million people died per year as result of holocaust. he is only off by 956000 per year but why bother with facts.
I like "facts" too Lowell. So would you be kind enough to post a link or video showing where Grayson compared uninsured mortality rates to the holocaust? Thanks.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xCAPX0RKwDU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xCAPX0RKwDU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Trench
 

WhatsHisNuts

Woke
Forum Member
Aug 29, 2006
27,814
1,139
113
50
Earth
www.ffrf.org
I like "facts" too Lowell. So would you be kind enough to post a link or video showing where Grayson compared uninsured mortality rates to the holocaust? Thanks.

<object width="480" height="385">


</object>

I don't think Lowell will respond. He is way too busy eating crow.

Lowell: Where did you get that quote from? You did use quotes, so I'm guessing you pulled it from some "news source". Love to hear where you are getting your facts from.

Trench: Beautiful work.:0008
 

Trench

Turn it up
Forum Member
Mar 8, 2008
3,974
18
0
Mad City, WI
this is the same alan grayson that said " 44000 people die each year because they do not have health insurance..same as the holocaust." a million people died per year as result of holocaust. he is only off by 956000 per year but why bother with facts.
Nevermind Lowell. I found the statement you're referring to:

?I would like to apologize. I apologize to the dead and their families that we haven't voted sooner to end this holocaust in America.?
-- Rep. Alan Grayson (D) FL

So Grayson didn't compare the uninsured mortality rate in America to the holocaust in Europe during WWII. He called it a "holocaust in America".

hol?o?caust  [hol-uh-kawst, hoh-luh-]: any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life.

In a country this rich, many Americans consider 44,789 deaths per year due to lack of health insurance a reckless destruction of life. An American holocaust.

But as you said Lowell... "why bother with the facts"?

Trench
 

Trench

Turn it up
Forum Member
Mar 8, 2008
3,974
18
0
Mad City, WI
I don't think Lowell will respond. He is way too busy eating crow.

Lowell: Where did you get that quote from? You did use quotes, so I'm guessing you pulled it from some "news source". Love to hear where you are getting your facts from.

Trench: Beautiful work.:0008
Gary, as you well know, these guys love to post statements hoping no one will fact-check them. I mean, it's not like it's too difficult to do in the age of Google and Youtube.

Trench
 

Lumi

LOKI
Forum Member
Aug 30, 2002
21,104
58
0
57
In the shadows
Gary, as you well know, these guys love to post statements hoping no one will fact-check them. I mean, it's not like it's too difficult to do in the age of Google and Youtube.

Trench

Trench,

and whomever else reads this reply?

Instead of google, I use www.startpage.com

I doesn't save any of your searchs and DOES NOT TRACK YOUR IP Just saying.... :toast:
 

Trench

Turn it up
Forum Member
Mar 8, 2008
3,974
18
0
Mad City, WI
I don't expect that is possible in Afgan because of terrain( population spread thin across vast areas) and economy based mostly on drugs.
I don't think Afgan can be saved.

I would be for fewer troops in Afgan but beefed up logistical support.
Speaking of logistics, do you know what the average cost is to transport one gallon of gasoline to our troops in Afghanistan? I'll tell you... $400.

That's $400 U.S. taxpayer dollars to transport every single gallon of gas to our troops in Afghanistan. Now that's money well spent!!!

News flash... We don't need to go to Afghanistan to find these guys. I guarantee you there are members of Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and al Fuqra right here in the U.S. and Canada.

Trench
 

lowell

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 6, 2003
9,177
89
48
I like "facts" too Lowell. So would you be kind enough to post a link or video showing where Grayson compared uninsured mortality rates to the holocaust? Thanks.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xCAPX0RKwDU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xCAPX0RKwDU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Trench
check his speech on the house floor on sept 30 2009 where he compares his "unproven" claim that 44k people die each year because of lack of health care and then compares it to the holocaust. he is an idiot for using the comparison of the holocaust. maybe he and pelosi should stop sharing the same kool-aid.
 

Trench

Turn it up
Forum Member
Mar 8, 2008
3,974
18
0
Mad City, WI
check his speech on the house floor on sept 30 2009 where he compares his "unproven" claim that 44k people die each year because of lack of health care and then compares it to the holocaust. he is an idiot for using the comparison of the holocaust. maybe he and pelosi should stop sharing the same kool-aid.
Apparently Lowell needs a little lesson in remedial English. The word holocaust is a
noun and can be used to describe any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life.
He's NOT comparing it to the holocaust in Europe during WWII. The only ones making
that comparison Lowell are YOU and the idiot that posted this clip on Youtube.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iDtoGzQUTu0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iDtoGzQUTu0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Trench
 

Lumi

LOKI
Forum Member
Aug 30, 2002
21,104
58
0
57
In the shadows
Step away from the computer and enjoy the rest of the weekend.

Smoke a bowl maybe ? :0074 :toast:

I feel like everyday looking at and reading the shit in here. :rolleyes:
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top