A True Sign of Hope

smurphy

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060207/wl_nm/religion_cartoons_iran_holocaust_dc

TEHRAN (Reuters) -
Iran's best-selling newspaper has launched a competition to find the best cartoon about the Holocaust in retaliation for the publication in many European countries of caricatures of the Prophet Mohammad.
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The Brussels-based Conference of European Rabbis (CER) denounced the idea and urged the Muslim world to do likewise.

The Anti-Defamation League, which fights anti-Semitism, described the competition as "deliberately inflammatory."

The Iranian daily Hamshahri said the contest was designed to test the boundaries of free speech -- the reason given by many European newspapers for publishing the cartoons of the Prophet.

"Does Western free speech allow working on issues like America and
Israel's crimes or an incident like the Holocaust or is this freedom of speech only good for insulting the holy values of divine religions?" the paper asked.

Davoud Kazemi, who is in charge of the contest, told Reuters that each of the 12 winners would have their cartoons published and receive two gold coins (worth about $140 each) as a prize.

In Paris, CER President Joseph Sitruk, who is also Chief Rabbi of France, said: "The Iranian regime has plummeted to new depths if it regards the deaths of six million Jews as a matter for humor or to score cheap political points.

"Sadly, we are not surprised by this action," he said, recalling Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's calls last year for Israel to be "wiped off the map" and his dismissal of the Holocaust as a myth.

In a statement issued by the CER, which represents chief rabbis from over 40 European countries, Sitruk said the Iranian government menaced Jews and the whole international community.

Sitruk noted that European religious leaders had condemned the publication of images likely to offend Muslim feelings.

"This is a test for the Muslim world to react immediately to condemn their own co-religionists in Iran for such obscene behavior as we condemned those who sought to insult them," he said.

Iranian protesters hurled petrol bombs and stones at the Danish Embassy in Tehran for a second successive day on Tuesday and Tehran announced it had cut all trade ties with Denmark.

A Danish newspaper published the cartoons in September, and newspapers in Norway and a dozen other countries reprinted them last month, citing the need to defend freedom of speech.

Arieh O'Sullivan, spokesman for the Anti-Defamation League's Israel office, said it was committed to free speech and a free press but that did not mean a license to foster hatred.

"What bothers us this incident has been used by the Arab world basically as an excuse to stick it to the Jews," he said.

"Iran is doing a dare to see how free the press is in Europe. This is deliberately inflammatory," O'Sullivan said, accusing newspapers in the Arab and Muslim world of frequently running cartoons of Jews that recalled Nazi propaganda.

In Belgium, a radical Muslim group based in Antwerp began publishing cartoons on its Web site which it also said were intended to challenge European taboos and highlight inconsistency in the European approach to freedom of speech.

They included a cartoon of Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler in bed with Anne Frank, a Jewish girl whose wartime diary written in hiding in Amsterdam is a worldwide best-seller, and another that questioned whether 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust.

"If it is the time to break taboos and cross all the red lines, we certainly do not want to stay behind," the Arab European League said on its Web site (www.arabeuropean.org).

Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt accused the group of fuelling riots in Antwerp in November, 2002. The group's leader, Dyab Abou Jahjah, was briefly arrested at the time. He ran unsuccessfully for parliament in 2003.

(Additional reporting by Tom Heneghan in Paris, Allyn Fisher-Ilan in Jerusalem and Paul Taylor in Brussels)

This is why I think we may be able to deal with Iran. They are already ahead of many other Muslims by leaps and bounds. Instead of blowing everything up, they are holding a cartoon contest. This is actually the best news out of the ME that I've heard in a long time.

Still a little to hung up on the Jews, but progress has clearly been made.
 

Heyward

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All that hope goes out the window once the Jewish folks start rioting in the streets and burning down embassies.
 

smurphy

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Arieh O'Sullivan, spokesman for the Anti-Defamation League's Israel office.....blah blah.
Ahah! Saul is not alone. Good 'ol Arieh O'Sullivan can carry the Mick-Jew torch for a while. Hope your happy, Eddie!
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Maybe it will serve a purpose---after the jewish community fails to burn-kill and pillage over it--just maybe the muslim world will see the light on just how extremely irrational they are---

Perfect ending would be if they ran 2 cartoons side by side world wide-- one with jewish population and God in peaceful and forgiving atmosphere--and one with Mohamad and Muslims in their destructive mode--wonder if they could see the light then?
 

Heyward

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DOGS THAT BARK said:
Maybe it will serve a purpose---after the jewish community fails to burn-kill and pillage over it--just maybe the muslim world will see the light on just how extremely irrational they are---

I hope you're right, but I'm not holding my breath.....
 

smurphy

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I think the smartest move the west/free world can make is to not raise a stink about their holocaust cartoons. In a way, they are playing by our rules - yeah it seems worse to mock actual deaths than a religious icon, but this is still better than I would have expected. If it blows off some steam for them without blowing something up, then the concept is getting through.

....and I'd like to see some of the finalists. Who knows, there might be some great Iranian comedian discovered out of this.
 

gardenweasel

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http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,548332,00.jpg
Ayaan Hirsi Ali is one of the most sharp- tongued critics of political Islam - - and a target of radical fanatics. Her provocative film "Submission" led to the assassination of director Theo van Gogh in November 2004. The attackers left a death threat against Hirsi Ali stuck to his corpse with a knife. After a brief period in hiding, the 36- year- old member of Dutch parliament from the neo- liberal VVD party has returned to parliament and is continuing her fight against Islamism. She recently published a book, "I Accuse," and is working on a sequel to "Submission."

Hirsi Ali was born in Somalia where she experienced the oppression of Muslim women first hand. When her father attempted to force her into an arranged marriage, she fled to Holland in 1992. Later, she renounced the Muslim religion. more...

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Dutch politician forced to go into hiding after the murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh, responds to the Danish cartoon scandal, arguing that if Europe doesn't stand up to extremists, a culture of self-censorship of criticism of Islam that pervades in Holland will spread in Europe. Auf Wiedersehen, free speech....




Ayaan Hirsi Ali: "Everyone is Afraid to Criticize Islam"


.

SPIEGEL: Hirsi Ali, you have called the Prophet Muhammad a tyrant and a pervert. Theo van Gogh, the director of your film "Submission," which is critical of Islam, was murdered by Islamists. You yourself are under police protection. Can you understand how the Danish cartoonists feel at this point?



Hirsi Ali: "The cartoons should be displayed everywhere."

Hirsi Ali: They probably feel numb. On the one hand, a voice in their heads is encouraging them not to sell out their freedom of speech. At the same time, they're experiencing the shocking sensation of what it's like to lose your own personal freedom. One mustn't forget that they're part of the postwar generation, and that all they've experienced is peace and prosperity. And now they suddenly have to fight for their own human rights once again.

SPIEGEL: Why have the protests escalated to such an extent?

Hirsi Ali: There is no freedom of speech in those Arab countries where the demonstrations and public outrage are being staged. The reason many people flee to Europe from these places is precisely because they have criticized religion, the political establishment and society. Totalitarian Islamic regimes are in a deep crisis. Globalization means that they're exposed to considerable change, and they also fear the reformist forces developing among ?migr?s in the West. They'll use threatening gestures against the West, and the success they achieve with their threats, to intimidate these people.


SPIEGEL: Was apologizing for the cartoons the wrong thing to do?

Hirsi Ali: Once again, the West pursued the principle of turning first one cheek, then the other. In fact, it's already a tradition. In 1980, privately owned British broadcaster ITV aired a documentary about the stoning of a Saudi Arabian princess who had allegedly committed adultery. The government in Riyadh intervened and the British government issued an apology. We saw the same kowtowing response in 1987 when (Dutch comedian) Rudi Carrell derided (Iranian revolutionary leader) Ayatollah Khomeini in a comedy skit (that was aired on German television). In 2000, a play about the youngest wife of the Prophet Mohammed, titled "Aisha," was cancelled before it ever opened in Rotterdam. Then there was the van Gogh murder and now the cartoons. We are constantly apologizing, and we don't notice how much abuse we're taking. Meanwhile, the other side doesn't give an inch.

SPIEGEL: What should the appropriate European response look like?

Hirsi Ali: There should be solidarity. The cartoons should be displayed everywhere. After all, the Arabs can't boycott goods from every country. They're far too dependent on imports. And Scandinavian companies should be compensated for their losses. Freedom of speech should at least be worth that much to us.

SPIEGEL: But Muslims, like any religious community, should also be able to protect themselves against slander and insult.

Hirsi Ali: That's exactly the reflex I was just talking about: offering the other cheek. Not a day passes, in Europe and elsewhere, when radical imams aren't preaching hatred in their mosques. They call Jews and Christians inferior, and we say they're just exercising their freedom of speech. When will the Europeans realize that the Islamists don't allow their critics the same right? After the West prostrates itself, they'll be more than happy to say that Allah has made the infidels spineless.

SPIEGEL: What will be the upshot of the storm of protests against the cartoons?

Hirsi Ali: We could see the same thing happening that has happened in the Netherlands, where writers, journalists and artists have felt intimidated ever since the van Gogh murder. Everyone is afraid to criticize Islam. Significantly, "Submission" still isn't being shown in theaters.

SPIEGEL: Many have criticized the film as being too radical and too offensive.



Hirsi Ali: The criticism of van Gogh was legitimate. But when someone has to die for his world view, what he may have done wrong is no longer the issue. That's when we have to stand up for our basic rights. Otherwise we are just reinforcing the killer and conceding that there was a good reason to kill this person.

SPIEGEL: You too have been accused for your dogged criticism of Islam.

Hirsi Ali: Oddly enough, my critics never specify how far I can go. How can you address problems if you're not even allowed to clearly define them? Like the fact that Muslim women at home are kept locked up, are raped and are married off against their will -- and that in a country in which our far too passive intellectuals are so proud of their freedom!

SPIEGEL: The debate over speaking Dutch on the streets and the integration programs for potentially violent Moroccan youth -- do these things also represent the fruits of your provocations?

Hirsi Ali: The sharp criticism has finally triggered an open debate over our relationship with Muslim immigrants. We have become more conscious of things. For example, we are now classifying honor killings by the victims' countries of origin. And we're finally turning our attention to young girls who are sent against their wills from Morocco to Holland as brides, and adopting legislation to make this practice more difficult.

SPIEGEL: You're working on a sequel to "Submission." Will you stick to your uncompromising approach?

The Cartoon Jihad: Did European newspapers make the right decision by reprinting controversial Danish caricatures that disparagingly depicted the Prophet Muhammad?



Hirsi Ali: Yes, of course. We want to continue the debate over the Koran's claim to absoluteness, the infallibility of the Prophet and sexual morality. In the first part, we portrayed a woman who speaks to her god, complaining that despite the fact that she has abided by his rules and subjugated herself, she is still being abused by her uncle. The second part deals with the dilemma into which the Muslim faith plunges four different men. One hates Jews, the second one is gay, the third is a bon vivant who wants to be a good Muslim but repeatedly succumbs to life's temptations, and the fourth is a martyr. They all feel abandoned by their god and decide to stop worshipping him.

SPIEGEL: Will recent events make it more difficult to screen the film?

Hirsi Ali: The conditions couldn't be more difficult. We're forced to produce the film under complete anonymity. Everyone involved in the film, from actors to technicians, will be unrecognizable. But we are determined to complete the project. The director didn't really like van Gogh, but he believes that, for the sake of free speech, shooting the sequel is critical. I'm optimistic that we'll be able to premier the film this year.

SPIEGEL: Is the Koran's claim to absoluteness, which you criticize in "Submission," the central obstacle to reforming Islam?

Hirsi Ali: The doctrine stating that the faith is inalterable because the Koran was dictated by God must be replaced. Muslims must realize that it was human beings who wrote the holy scriptures. After all, most Christians don't believe in hell, in the angels or in the earth having been created in six days. They now see these things as symbolic stories, but they still remain true to their faith.""


wow...

she's the best thing to come out of somalia since...well...since uhhh...hmmmmm....whatever...

lets just hope, she`s well protected...

she's under a death sentence and still has more balls than our own state department...

that`s alotta woman...
 
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gardenweasel

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back on smurph`s topic....

""This is why I think we may be able to deal with Iran. They are already ahead of many other Muslims by leaps and bounds""...

TEHRAN, Iran -""" Hundreds of angry protesters hurled stones and fire bombs at the Danish Embassy in the Iranian capital Monday to protest publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad. Police used tear gas and surrounded the walled villa to hold back the crowd.

It was the second attack on a Western mission in Tehran on Monday. Earlier in the day, 200 student demonstrators threw stones at the Austrian Embassy, breaking windows and starting small fires. The mission was targeted because Austria holds the presidency of the European Union.

Thousands more people joined violent demonstrations across the world to protest publication of the caricatures of Muhammad.....

In the Iranian capital, police encircled the Danish Embassy but were unable to hold back 400 demonstrators as they tossed stones and Molotov cocktails at the walled brick villa. At least nine protesters were hurt, police said.

About an hour into the protest, police fired tear gas, driving the demonstrators into a nearby park. Later, about 20 people returned and tried to break through police lines to enter the embassy compound but were blocked by security forces.

As the tear gas dissipated, most of the crowd filtered back to the embassy, where they burned Danish flags and chanted anti-Danish slogans and "God is great."

Two trees inside the embassy compound were set on fire by the gasoline bombs. The embassy gate was burned, as was a police booth along the wall protecting the building.

The Danish Foreign Ministry said it was not aware of any staff inside the building, which closed for the day before the demonstration.

Ambassador Claus Juul Nielsen told DR public television in Denmark that the protesters vandalized the ground floor of the embassy, which included the trade and the visa departments.

The crowd, which included about 100 women, ignored police orders to disperse and kept hurling fire bombs until being hit by tear gas. The crowd dispersed by midnight.

Also Monday, 200 members of Iran's parliament issued a statement warning that those who published the cartoons should remember the case of Salman Rushdie — the British author against whom the late Iranian leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued a death warrant for his novel "The Satanic Verses."""


The angry demonstrations in Iran recall the Nov. 4, 1979, seizure of the American Embassy in Tehran after the Islamic revolution that overthrew U.S. ally Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi.

The students who held 52 Americans hostage for 444 days faced little or no police resistance in the post-revolutionary turmoil that had brought Shiite theologian Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini and an Islamic government to power."""



so much for good thoughts,eh,buddy....i laud you for trying to be "tolerant" of the "intolerant"...

what i really don`t get is the pretzel logic that you get from :

danish newspapers disparage muhammad=iranians and other muslims disparaging the joos.....or,in simpler terms...

peter punches paul in the ear.......then,paul kicks patrick in the nuts??

and the danes???...helllo???

someone explain that one to me....

"ahead of many other muslims by leaps and bounds".......???....

must be a cultural thing...
 
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smurphy

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Do not fear, Weasel. The rocks and molotov cocktails are PRIOR to them catching glimpses of the finalists drawings depicting people of Jewish persuasion breathing gas and being turned into soap. I assure you that their mood lighten when experience such creativity with pencil and paper.

I'm excited about this contest. I may even enter a few drawings myself. ....Is it spelled "Aushwitz"? I think so, but it doesn't look right.

....I'm not very good at drawing emaciated people though, so I'm actually just tracing images of Kate Moss and replacing coke with cyanide. ....I know I'm violating Cosmopolitan's law of making caricatures of Kate Moss, but I'm not a very good artist and need all the help I can.

I really like the soap bar angle. I'm thinking the setting will be Hitler's shower with Eva Braun making a comment about how this Jew isn't leaving her skin as silky smooth as the last one. ....I'm tellin ya - I got a winner - just need to get the story boards in order.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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The Washington Post, which had no qualms about publishing a cartoon attacking the U.S. military which drew a rare letter of protest from the joint chiefs ? has declined to run the controversial Danish cartoons of the prophet Muhammad.

Executive editor Len Downie tells Editor and Publisher that the cartoons violate the paper's standards on religious sensitivity and "general good taste." The Post isn't alone ? among U.S. newspapers, only the New York Sun, the Philadelphia Inquirer, the Rocky Mountain News and California's Riverside Press-Enterprise have printed any of the drawings.

The Los Angeles Times joined The New York Times and others in declining to run the cartoons, even while saying they support the right to publish them.
Meanwhile, the AP has refused even to send the pictures to its member newspapers for them to do with as they choose.
 

bjfinste

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DOGS THAT BARK said:
Meanwhile, the AP has refused even to send the pictures to its member newspapers for them to do with as they choose.

And this is the biggest crock of shit of all. I can understand an individual paper making the decision not to run them. But when the biggest news agency that countless papers rely on for information denies them the ability to even get the cartoons to make the decisions for themselves, it's spitting in the face of the first amendment.

It's times like these I wish I covered political-type news just to write an editorial about how f*cked up these crackpots must be to flip out over a cartoon. It makes me sick.
 

smurphy

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Props to the Riverside Free Enterprise!!! I knew those cats had balls. Any Muslims wanna take them down will have to wade through an endless sea of meth houses to get there. I doubt they will be able to survive the trip without the smell getting them to at least give it a try.

I'm getting a bit worried for the safety of the tourist trap town on the central coast - Solvaang. Talk out your soft Danish targets. California Nat'l Guard should be dispensed for security. ....Oh yeah, they're all gettin' f'd up in Iraq. ....Well, so much for "bringing the war to them". Was fun while it lasted.

Still working on my award winning cartoon. I have to admit, I'm offended at my own creation. That's a good indication that I have a winner.
 

kosar

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smurphy said:
Props to the Riverside Free Enterprise!!! I knew those cats had balls. Any Muslims wanna take them down will have to wade through an endless sea of meth houses to get there. I doubt they will be able to survive the trip without the smell getting them to at least give it a try.

I'm getting a bit worried for the safety of the tourist trap town on the central coast - Solvaang. Talk out your soft Danish targets. California Nat'l Guard should be dispensed for security. ....Oh yeah, they're all gettin' f'd up in Iraq. ....Well, so much for "bringing the war to them". Was fun while it lasted.

Still working on my award winning cartoon. I have to admit, I'm offended at my own creation. That's a good indication that I have a winner.

I read this post twice and still have no idea what it means.

It's like when I browse the forum early in the morning when I wake up and see a post from Saul time stamped 4:32 am. I know i'm in for a treat.
 

smurphy

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Sorry Kosar. Come to the westside and I'll show you my anti-Semetic cartoons and take to these wonderful California points of interest. You'll be up and running in no time!

....it would help if I said the name of the newspaper DTB listed as one willing to show the Muhammad cartoon correctly:

...."Riverside Press-Enterprise"
 
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gardenweasel

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the n.y.t`s weighed in...finally.....

not to publish the mohammed cartoons....they decided to "reprint" the "elephant dung mary picture"...... :142smilie :142crying ...lmao...i shit you not....

..they should change their motto from "all the news that`s fit to print" to "if you`re going to be provacative,it`s best to be provacative with people who can`t be provoked".....

bunch of fricking cowards and hypocrites....

just saw some bad news....mohammed saw his shadow.....six more weeks of rage...:yup
 
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