NEW: AN INTERVIEW WITH MICKEY APPLEMAN:
EXCLUSIVE TO MAD JACK SPORTS
(Note: This interview was transcribed yesterday, from an informal discussion I had with Mickey Appleman in Las Vegas two weeks ago. I have omitted most references to Stu Ungar, which was the primary subject and reason for my interview with Appleman <those details will appear in the book I am writing about Ungar>. Our conversation eventually turned to sports gambling. Here is the text of his remarks)
Introduction: Mickey Appleman needs no introduction to serious gamblers. With 29 cashes and three gold bracelets (world titles) at the World Series of Poker, Mickey Appleman is a living legend. He's also an avid (and very successful) sports gambler. There are many Mickey Appleman stories to tell. Most are incredible. They are amazing. Some are hard to believe. But they are all true. One of the most famous stories is the $640,000 golf shot Appleman made at La Costa, which I posted here at MadJacks last year. You'll get to hear that again in this interview. It's a great story.
Appleman grew up on Long Island. As a child, he was very competitive and excelled in all sports. He was also from an academically-oriented family where it was expected that he would graduate with an advanced degree. He received an MBA from Rutgers and started teaching statistics.
In the late 1960s, Appleman took a job in inner-city Washington, which was in the midst of a crisis. The nation's capital had been torched by race riots and was filled with contemporary urban problems. Appleman became socially active and involved himself in a community outreach program for inner city people in trouble. He later became coordinator of a drug and alcohol treatment program. In short, he sacrificed what could have been a lucrative career in business for causes of social activism.
Appleman started playing cards for fun and later gravitated to sports gambling. "It all mushroomed from there," Appleman admits. "I have an innate talent for it." And, who can argue?
Today, Appleman lives in Ft. Lee, NJ. He was interviewed at Binion's Horseshoe in Las Vegas on May 12, 2002.
DALLA: How did you get involved in sports gambling?
APPLEMAN: It was a natural gift for me when I was younger. One day I was just talking to a friend. There was a line in the newspaper on a football game. I didn't know anything about the lines, so I asked my friend -- 'is that the line on the game?' He said 'yeah.' It was the Rutgers-Columbia game. I said -- 'Rutgers is gonna' kill them. It will be a massacre.' He turned to me and said -- well, you ought to go bet it then. I didn't have much money at the time. I had like $500 to my name. So, I went and gave (the bookie) $400. Rutgers ended up winning like 42-0. So, that did it for me. I've been in sports betting ever since.
DALLA: So, instead of losing your first bet and chasing the dollar, you have been ahead since Day One. You are probably one of the few sports gamblers that can honestly make that claim.
APPLEMAN: I came out to Las Vegas because a friend was making bets for me out here. It was like 1975 and it was my first time to play in the World Series. I was so green at the time. Benny Binion, who owned this place (Binion's Horseshoe) saw me, and he came up to me and took me aside. He said, 'I know you are new out here. We're looking out for you.' There were all kinds of people looking to pick off the newcomers like me. He said, 'You don't worry about a thing.' That was a real turning point for me. Benny, and later Jack (Binion), did so much for the gamblers. This place was built by gamblers -- and Benny and Jack never forgot that. He created the poker tournaments, golf tournaments -- they were really a lot of fun.
DALLA: I know you were something of a natural athlete. Were you always a good golfer?
APPLEMAN: No, I was terrible at golf. That's the funny thing about the story. There were years when I was playing for more money than the winners on the pro golf tour, and I was a hacker. That's the beauty of golf. It's a great gambling game. When I first started out at golf, I didn't know the protocol of the game or anything. I would 'wing it.' That's why Stuey (Ungar) and I had such a commonality to us. Jack "Treetop" Straus, too. The three of us were not calculating. We said -- 'just get me into the game, and I'll figure out a way to beat it, later on.' If there was an all-time list of the Top 10, then me Stuey, and Jack would have been at the top of the list of people who weren't afraid of action. We'd gamble on anything. Anything! I used to make my "all-action Top 10" during the 80s, the guys that gave all the action in all the events. Then, there were the 10 all-time nits. You couldn't get a dollar out of them, the nits, unless they had the stone cold nuts or the best of it. We used to love beating the nits out of money, especially when we had the worst of it and ended up beating them by using our heads.
DALLA: Which do you enjoy more -- betting sports or playing poker?
APPLEMAN: In the 80s I was more into sports, but I kinda' go back and forth. I don't have the energy to do both at once. Both take up a lot of time.
DALLA: Do you work with other people or tout other people on games that you bet?
APPLEMAN: Guys used to come up to me and ask who I liked on a game. Thing is, you're in a no-win situation when you are giving out games. You can only cost somebody money. If you win the game, then that's great -- but I hate to give out losers and that's going to happen sometimes. When I was giving out games, I felt worse when someone lost money on my play than if I lost my own. I used to have some big swings. I was in and out of money for years and years. Things got difficult for me in the late 80s. The games got tougher to beat. The computers started taking over. The betting lines became more sophisticated. It just became much more competitive. It got to where you were competing against real, major talents. It was a much easier game betting back in the late 70s and early 80s than it is now. That's one the reasons I started playing poker again. You have more control in poker over your results.
DALLA: Tell me that great golf story about you at La Costa.
APPLEMAN: We were playing at La Costa, near San Diego. I bet a bunch of people (32 to be exact) $20,000 each that I could break 100 on the course without looking at it. There was a whole trail of gold carts following us around. It was like the Masters. Only for more money. I had not played the course before, so it was a challenge for me. I took a "10" on the first hole. That really put me in a bad spot. I had to shoot 90 the rest of the way. You know how difficult that is? It finally got down to the 18th hole. I needed a par to break even. A bogey meant I lost. It was a par 5. The bets were up to $640,000 -- actually more than that because there was side action. I had to birdie the hole to win the money. I didn't make many birdies, I mean breaking 100 was a good day for me, so a birdie was almost out the question. All I was looking to do was get a par and get out. I had to get down in two to tie, and here I was 50 feet off the green. I hit an iron shot and holed out. It went in. That was unbelievable.
DALLA: How about the action up at Lake Tahoe during the Amarillo Slim tournaments?
APPLEMAN: That was great. The biggest side action in the world was at Amarillo Slim's Super Bowl of Poker. They played it up in Reno and Tahoe back then. We played for thousands. Believe it or not, the biggest side action was on ping pong matches. I was sitting with David Chiu from California. He's originally from China, you know. We got to talking about ping pong. This was when the Chinese really dominated the sport, and Chiu actually told me he was on one of the national teams. I asked him, 'Were you really that good?' He said, 'Yeah.' So, I arranged it where we were all at the same table playing cards. I brought up ping pong and Stuey was sitting there and overheard me. I knew Stuey was pretty good, but I had him drawing dead with Chiu next to me. I turned to Stuey and said, 'you know what -- you're not even the best ping pong player at this table.' That got him going. He said, "who is?" And I pointed right at David. I bet Stu Ungar $20,000 that David could beat him. And you know what? I lost that bet. Stuey beat him.
EXCLUSIVE TO MAD JACK SPORTS
(Note: This interview was transcribed yesterday, from an informal discussion I had with Mickey Appleman in Las Vegas two weeks ago. I have omitted most references to Stu Ungar, which was the primary subject and reason for my interview with Appleman <those details will appear in the book I am writing about Ungar>. Our conversation eventually turned to sports gambling. Here is the text of his remarks)
Introduction: Mickey Appleman needs no introduction to serious gamblers. With 29 cashes and three gold bracelets (world titles) at the World Series of Poker, Mickey Appleman is a living legend. He's also an avid (and very successful) sports gambler. There are many Mickey Appleman stories to tell. Most are incredible. They are amazing. Some are hard to believe. But they are all true. One of the most famous stories is the $640,000 golf shot Appleman made at La Costa, which I posted here at MadJacks last year. You'll get to hear that again in this interview. It's a great story.
Appleman grew up on Long Island. As a child, he was very competitive and excelled in all sports. He was also from an academically-oriented family where it was expected that he would graduate with an advanced degree. He received an MBA from Rutgers and started teaching statistics.
In the late 1960s, Appleman took a job in inner-city Washington, which was in the midst of a crisis. The nation's capital had been torched by race riots and was filled with contemporary urban problems. Appleman became socially active and involved himself in a community outreach program for inner city people in trouble. He later became coordinator of a drug and alcohol treatment program. In short, he sacrificed what could have been a lucrative career in business for causes of social activism.
Appleman started playing cards for fun and later gravitated to sports gambling. "It all mushroomed from there," Appleman admits. "I have an innate talent for it." And, who can argue?
Today, Appleman lives in Ft. Lee, NJ. He was interviewed at Binion's Horseshoe in Las Vegas on May 12, 2002.
DALLA: How did you get involved in sports gambling?
APPLEMAN: It was a natural gift for me when I was younger. One day I was just talking to a friend. There was a line in the newspaper on a football game. I didn't know anything about the lines, so I asked my friend -- 'is that the line on the game?' He said 'yeah.' It was the Rutgers-Columbia game. I said -- 'Rutgers is gonna' kill them. It will be a massacre.' He turned to me and said -- well, you ought to go bet it then. I didn't have much money at the time. I had like $500 to my name. So, I went and gave (the bookie) $400. Rutgers ended up winning like 42-0. So, that did it for me. I've been in sports betting ever since.
DALLA: So, instead of losing your first bet and chasing the dollar, you have been ahead since Day One. You are probably one of the few sports gamblers that can honestly make that claim.
APPLEMAN: I came out to Las Vegas because a friend was making bets for me out here. It was like 1975 and it was my first time to play in the World Series. I was so green at the time. Benny Binion, who owned this place (Binion's Horseshoe) saw me, and he came up to me and took me aside. He said, 'I know you are new out here. We're looking out for you.' There were all kinds of people looking to pick off the newcomers like me. He said, 'You don't worry about a thing.' That was a real turning point for me. Benny, and later Jack (Binion), did so much for the gamblers. This place was built by gamblers -- and Benny and Jack never forgot that. He created the poker tournaments, golf tournaments -- they were really a lot of fun.
DALLA: I know you were something of a natural athlete. Were you always a good golfer?
APPLEMAN: No, I was terrible at golf. That's the funny thing about the story. There were years when I was playing for more money than the winners on the pro golf tour, and I was a hacker. That's the beauty of golf. It's a great gambling game. When I first started out at golf, I didn't know the protocol of the game or anything. I would 'wing it.' That's why Stuey (Ungar) and I had such a commonality to us. Jack "Treetop" Straus, too. The three of us were not calculating. We said -- 'just get me into the game, and I'll figure out a way to beat it, later on.' If there was an all-time list of the Top 10, then me Stuey, and Jack would have been at the top of the list of people who weren't afraid of action. We'd gamble on anything. Anything! I used to make my "all-action Top 10" during the 80s, the guys that gave all the action in all the events. Then, there were the 10 all-time nits. You couldn't get a dollar out of them, the nits, unless they had the stone cold nuts or the best of it. We used to love beating the nits out of money, especially when we had the worst of it and ended up beating them by using our heads.
DALLA: Which do you enjoy more -- betting sports or playing poker?
APPLEMAN: In the 80s I was more into sports, but I kinda' go back and forth. I don't have the energy to do both at once. Both take up a lot of time.
DALLA: Do you work with other people or tout other people on games that you bet?
APPLEMAN: Guys used to come up to me and ask who I liked on a game. Thing is, you're in a no-win situation when you are giving out games. You can only cost somebody money. If you win the game, then that's great -- but I hate to give out losers and that's going to happen sometimes. When I was giving out games, I felt worse when someone lost money on my play than if I lost my own. I used to have some big swings. I was in and out of money for years and years. Things got difficult for me in the late 80s. The games got tougher to beat. The computers started taking over. The betting lines became more sophisticated. It just became much more competitive. It got to where you were competing against real, major talents. It was a much easier game betting back in the late 70s and early 80s than it is now. That's one the reasons I started playing poker again. You have more control in poker over your results.
DALLA: Tell me that great golf story about you at La Costa.
APPLEMAN: We were playing at La Costa, near San Diego. I bet a bunch of people (32 to be exact) $20,000 each that I could break 100 on the course without looking at it. There was a whole trail of gold carts following us around. It was like the Masters. Only for more money. I had not played the course before, so it was a challenge for me. I took a "10" on the first hole. That really put me in a bad spot. I had to shoot 90 the rest of the way. You know how difficult that is? It finally got down to the 18th hole. I needed a par to break even. A bogey meant I lost. It was a par 5. The bets were up to $640,000 -- actually more than that because there was side action. I had to birdie the hole to win the money. I didn't make many birdies, I mean breaking 100 was a good day for me, so a birdie was almost out the question. All I was looking to do was get a par and get out. I had to get down in two to tie, and here I was 50 feet off the green. I hit an iron shot and holed out. It went in. That was unbelievable.
DALLA: How about the action up at Lake Tahoe during the Amarillo Slim tournaments?
APPLEMAN: That was great. The biggest side action in the world was at Amarillo Slim's Super Bowl of Poker. They played it up in Reno and Tahoe back then. We played for thousands. Believe it or not, the biggest side action was on ping pong matches. I was sitting with David Chiu from California. He's originally from China, you know. We got to talking about ping pong. This was when the Chinese really dominated the sport, and Chiu actually told me he was on one of the national teams. I asked him, 'Were you really that good?' He said, 'Yeah.' So, I arranged it where we were all at the same table playing cards. I brought up ping pong and Stuey was sitting there and overheard me. I knew Stuey was pretty good, but I had him drawing dead with Chiu next to me. I turned to Stuey and said, 'you know what -- you're not even the best ping pong player at this table.' That got him going. He said, "who is?" And I pointed right at David. I bet Stu Ungar $20,000 that David could beat him. And you know what? I lost that bet. Stuey beat him.
