More and more people from Mexico are moving into theU.S.don't we regulate how many are aloud in the u.s.!As jobs move south thanks to n.a.f.t.a.More of them move north to dirty up our city's and to get free health care! Why should I have to foot the bill for these people!
as the jobs leave the u.s.
- Thread starter stify
- Start date
Stify you may start a war here time will tell. They say there is along story as to why. I have been hearing it for 30 years. I must say I don't understand all of it. We are told if these jobs go there they will stay in Mexico and work them. They say these are low paying jobs that you and I will not do. So far they have said there would be over another 3 or 4 mill in US right now if they did not do this. It's who you believe. I don't have any answer for you. I feal some pain so I hope you did not loose your job. But I think you have some facts mixed up. But I may be wrong as hell.
[This message has been edited by djv (edited 05-17-2001).]
[This message has been edited by djv (edited 05-17-2001).]
1 st
i worked for a company called dana for 8 years before they closed the reading pa plant and moved outside the u.s.so nick i do know what the hell i am talking about!
2 nd
i now work for agere aka lucent !with in the next 5 years they will close that plant!they are now laying off and slowly moving work to mexico! they just spent over $5 million in getting that plant up to par!
i just wanted to voice some concerns!
sorry if i said something you did not like Nick Douglas
i worked for a company called dana for 8 years before they closed the reading pa plant and moved outside the u.s.so nick i do know what the hell i am talking about!
2 nd
i now work for agere aka lucent !with in the next 5 years they will close that plant!they are now laying off and slowly moving work to mexico! they just spent over $5 million in getting that plant up to par!
i just wanted to voice some concerns!
sorry if i said something you did not like Nick Douglas
stiff....
Dana is a rather large factory in my town. It was actually called ETN Inc. for numerous years as Dana acquired the company roughly 2 years ago. I think they employ about 500-600 people. Very important for our local economy. But, we've also had quite a few industries locate to Mexico due to the cost of labor. Most of these were industries associated with some form of clothing or sewing manufacturing. These moves have obviously had an effect on our community.
This global economy stuff is pretty damn hard to understand sometimes. It effects different communities in different ways. I can certainly understand your concerns....
Dana is a rather large factory in my town. It was actually called ETN Inc. for numerous years as Dana acquired the company roughly 2 years ago. I think they employ about 500-600 people. Very important for our local economy. But, we've also had quite a few industries locate to Mexico due to the cost of labor. Most of these were industries associated with some form of clothing or sewing manufacturing. These moves have obviously had an effect on our community.
This global economy stuff is pretty damn hard to understand sometimes. It effects different communities in different ways. I can certainly understand your concerns....
Stify you need not say your sorry. You brought up something that concerns you. Im sure you will take some shots. Like I said what do I know. In my town the jobs went to China. A firm call footware. Jobs in 1970 about 1000 Jobs today around 102. All office or shipping jobs. You say why shipping jobs. Believe they have the goods from China shipped here. Then repackage and shipped out acrosse the US. I did not work there had some folks I new that did. Some of this happen at the right time for a few. My company was hireing. We have about 200 of there folks working with us. Like Neemer said who understand it all. One thing for sure our politicians don't. Or if they do. They don't want us to find out.
I can see trading with Mexico since we share a continent, a long ass border, and silver belt buckles
. I don't get the deal with China at all. I hate to see the loss of manufacturing jobs but strict protectionism doesn't work either, please refer to Smoot-Hawley and the Great Depression.
I DO think that US companies should be subject to the same environmental, safety, and child labor laws as in the US even when they export jobs. This would curb some of the job flight.
I do computer work for a trucking company. 3-4 years ago the market for hiring drivers got really tight (still is), so they began to train and hire Mexicans. These men and women are thrilled to have a job where they can make $40K/year with benefits, and they have been instrumental to the continued success of the company and the other 300 employees who are not Hispanic. (Not all new hires are Hispanic, but it's about 50/50).
I DO think that US companies should be subject to the same environmental, safety, and child labor laws as in the US even when they export jobs. This would curb some of the job flight.
I do computer work for a trucking company. 3-4 years ago the market for hiring drivers got really tight (still is), so they began to train and hire Mexicans. These men and women are thrilled to have a job where they can make $40K/year with benefits, and they have been instrumental to the continued success of the company and the other 300 employees who are not Hispanic. (Not all new hires are Hispanic, but it's about 50/50).
First of all, why should we regulate how many people are allowed in the U.S.? Unless you are Native American, chances are your relatives emigrated at some point so it is TOTALLY hypocritical for you to make that statement.
And you can't get any more RACIST than saying "move north and dirty up our cities". Do you know any illegal immigrants? Have you talked to any of them or done business with them on a regular basis? Do you have any clue why so many from Mexico and Central America move up here? Clearly you don't. If you lived in poverty with no chance of social elevation and there was a place that gave you that chance a couple hundred miles north, WTF would you do? It is not like Mexicans and El Salavadorians come up here looking for an f'n handout. The VAST majority come up looking for honest work and a chance for their future generations to elevate themselves.
If you lost your job, that is a shame. But it is hardly the fault of impoverished illegal immigrants. First of all, if you are a hard worker and you have desirable skills, you will get another job. If you don't, every person in this country has the opportunity to get those skills at a reasonable cost.
It pisses me off to see workers (usually union workers) bitch and moan that their no-skills-required job is leaving town. For many, they coasted through high school and never even got a bachelor's degree because they viewed the local plant as a way to make a comfortable living without ever having to show any ambition in life.
And look ont he bright side. If General Motors had never left Flint, Michigan, there would have never been the abject poverty in that town that helped produce so many great basketball players.
Who is American and who has a right to live here? Where do American's come from. Answer these questions first. I can understand your concerns or at least listen and try to understand. But you are not showing any effort trying to understand those people that are moving to US or in Mexico. You don't want them here. Fine. The coorparate
America is moving their resources away then. So you are getting what you want I guess. They will stay there and work in the factories that American investors build. Nick D. is right you don't really know what you are talking about.
I am starting to get sick of hearing "This is America, go somewhere else if you don't like it" kind of comments. Thats something Native American's could say. Not many left after the genocide.
America is moving their resources away then. So you are getting what you want I guess. They will stay there and work in the factories that American investors build. Nick D. is right you don't really know what you are talking about.
I am starting to get sick of hearing "This is America, go somewhere else if you don't like it" kind of comments. Thats something Native American's could say. Not many left after the genocide.
Ouch /">*8 & ,// %68??. Can't say if that Bachelor's thing I got buried some place helped make me the ball of fire I am. Think it was because I don't mind hard work. Factory/Office work I don't care. It's up to you to make the best out of what you do. Now is it our job to make sure anyone that comes here get's a job. I don't know. But if they move enough out of the country. Well I think you get the pitcure.
i said a statement like that alienxtrm,and i will stand by that,if you are not a citizen that votes,then you are a guest of this country and shouldnot bitch about how the country is ran, or what it stands for.
the same as me going to another country and degrading or talking bad about it. now if its the unfair treatment of people based on where you come from that is different,everyone should be treated with due respect as a person. like i sak before why come to the us if there are so many dislikes that are held inside,well i would say that a big reason is because its a much better life then they had some where else. so i would say don't knock the host that is supporting a much improved lifestyle then what they left.
alienxtrm this isnot directed at you after reading it kinda sounded that way was more of a feeling,hope you can understand what i meen. not the greast at writting things out.good luck
[This message has been edited by fletcher (edited 05-18-2001).]
the same as me going to another country and degrading or talking bad about it. now if its the unfair treatment of people based on where you come from that is different,everyone should be treated with due respect as a person. like i sak before why come to the us if there are so many dislikes that are held inside,well i would say that a big reason is because its a much better life then they had some where else. so i would say don't knock the host that is supporting a much improved lifestyle then what they left.
alienxtrm this isnot directed at you after reading it kinda sounded that way was more of a feeling,hope you can understand what i meen. not the greast at writting things out.good luck
[This message has been edited by fletcher (edited 05-18-2001).]
guys
this stuff is a million times bigger than all of us put together plus a few hundred thou, and i don't believe there is much we can do except bitch. (or maybe try to learn to survive in this new economy).
immigrants are not the only problem. our system, dept. of justice, etc., along with others in the major powers, have been allowing mega mergers of perfectly healthy corporations, and those mergers are done for the specific benefit of a few major players. the only sure winners here are the major stockholders and co. officers. to hell with the 5 or 10 thou who got laid off. that is their problem.
some people who have 401ks and the like seem to think they are making out like bandits because the stocks in their portfolios went up 5 fold, but when they lose their nice incomes, they will find out all those savings, if they are still there, won't get them very far without a good paying job. many of them end up using up all their savings buying up a high-priced franchise and end up working for $2.- an hour in their own business. these savings plans are the ones feeding the market frenzy we have had, and know bush wants to use ss funds to keep feeding the fat cats in the market. we are doing this crap to ourselves and doing nothing about it 'cause it looks convenient for the time being.
as for immigration:
whether we like it or not, the have nots overwhelm the world population. think of it as tiny atomic weapons all over the world. we, they, etc. (the big powers) find ourselves in a position of having to contain the poverty and unrest, and one of those relief valves is by allowing a certain percentage of immigrants, legal or not, to come to our countries.
instead of the big nations having to disburse zillions to keep these nations in check, they allow a mutually convenient number of immigrants in, who in turn send most of their wages back to their country of origin.
as these numbers keep increasing, the tendency is for our standard of living to go down, while theirs comes up. the economies of the world are such a tangled mess, that nobody i can think of can come up with an answer, other than finding a way to exterminate half of the world population, and that is not acceptable to the majority of civilized people.
this is not a u.s. only problem, it happens all over europe, asia, etc.
the specific problem with the long border with mexico has been talked about and discussed for ages, and it boils down to something like this: use northern mexico as a buffer zone, with fairly good economic opportunities, to stop most of the immigration right there. there ain't no other way to contain that border, or all the water around it and us. so nafta, by allowing mexico in, is intent on improving mexico's economy so much as to contain the immigration south of the border. that is the price we have to pay.
most illegal immigrants (not from mexico) i have met come with the intention of making a few bucks and then returning home, but since they are not allowed to travel freely back and forth, they have the tendency to stay here a bit longer, as getting back entails a certain amount of personal risk and a lot of money. after a while, they get used to our system, start getting into debt, enjoy the niceties, luxuries we have, and before you know it, they stay permanently.
now, if you have lived in texas like i have, and got to know the mexican community, you will find that the family ties south and north of the border are very strong, and the rio grande just happens to be a river that you have to cross to travel north or south. this applies especially to citizens of northern mexico.
the subject of our economy/immigration has no beginning and no end, it is a long process which eventually will lead to who knows what. take all the economists, political geniuses, sociologists and they could not get together on a common solution in a million years.
some discontent was manifested by many people in seattle a few months ago, when some world organization met there. from what i remember, it got real nasty, physical. part of what i am talking about has to do with it, and apparently there are more than a few people thinking/acting along the same lines.
if you think this only affects the major powers, think again. i am witnessing this globalization stuff here in all of central/south america and it ain't pretty. what is coming is a lot of social upheaval, as these countries are forced to open up their markets to giant corporations who will eat the locals alive and put a whole lot of people out of work by flooding the markets with cheaper still goods from asia/india. guess where these locals will be going to?
so when does the nfl start?
pep
this stuff is a million times bigger than all of us put together plus a few hundred thou, and i don't believe there is much we can do except bitch. (or maybe try to learn to survive in this new economy).
immigrants are not the only problem. our system, dept. of justice, etc., along with others in the major powers, have been allowing mega mergers of perfectly healthy corporations, and those mergers are done for the specific benefit of a few major players. the only sure winners here are the major stockholders and co. officers. to hell with the 5 or 10 thou who got laid off. that is their problem.
some people who have 401ks and the like seem to think they are making out like bandits because the stocks in their portfolios went up 5 fold, but when they lose their nice incomes, they will find out all those savings, if they are still there, won't get them very far without a good paying job. many of them end up using up all their savings buying up a high-priced franchise and end up working for $2.- an hour in their own business. these savings plans are the ones feeding the market frenzy we have had, and know bush wants to use ss funds to keep feeding the fat cats in the market. we are doing this crap to ourselves and doing nothing about it 'cause it looks convenient for the time being.
as for immigration:
whether we like it or not, the have nots overwhelm the world population. think of it as tiny atomic weapons all over the world. we, they, etc. (the big powers) find ourselves in a position of having to contain the poverty and unrest, and one of those relief valves is by allowing a certain percentage of immigrants, legal or not, to come to our countries.
instead of the big nations having to disburse zillions to keep these nations in check, they allow a mutually convenient number of immigrants in, who in turn send most of their wages back to their country of origin.
as these numbers keep increasing, the tendency is for our standard of living to go down, while theirs comes up. the economies of the world are such a tangled mess, that nobody i can think of can come up with an answer, other than finding a way to exterminate half of the world population, and that is not acceptable to the majority of civilized people.
this is not a u.s. only problem, it happens all over europe, asia, etc.
the specific problem with the long border with mexico has been talked about and discussed for ages, and it boils down to something like this: use northern mexico as a buffer zone, with fairly good economic opportunities, to stop most of the immigration right there. there ain't no other way to contain that border, or all the water around it and us. so nafta, by allowing mexico in, is intent on improving mexico's economy so much as to contain the immigration south of the border. that is the price we have to pay.
most illegal immigrants (not from mexico) i have met come with the intention of making a few bucks and then returning home, but since they are not allowed to travel freely back and forth, they have the tendency to stay here a bit longer, as getting back entails a certain amount of personal risk and a lot of money. after a while, they get used to our system, start getting into debt, enjoy the niceties, luxuries we have, and before you know it, they stay permanently.
now, if you have lived in texas like i have, and got to know the mexican community, you will find that the family ties south and north of the border are very strong, and the rio grande just happens to be a river that you have to cross to travel north or south. this applies especially to citizens of northern mexico.
the subject of our economy/immigration has no beginning and no end, it is a long process which eventually will lead to who knows what. take all the economists, political geniuses, sociologists and they could not get together on a common solution in a million years.
some discontent was manifested by many people in seattle a few months ago, when some world organization met there. from what i remember, it got real nasty, physical. part of what i am talking about has to do with it, and apparently there are more than a few people thinking/acting along the same lines.
if you think this only affects the major powers, think again. i am witnessing this globalization stuff here in all of central/south america and it ain't pretty. what is coming is a lot of social upheaval, as these countries are forced to open up their markets to giant corporations who will eat the locals alive and put a whole lot of people out of work by flooding the markets with cheaper still goods from asia/india. guess where these locals will be going to?
so when does the nfl start?
pep
that is my point, djv.
let's worry about things we can actually do something about. can't wait.
pep
let's worry about things we can actually do something about. can't wait.
pep
Some observations:
1) A crash course in anthropology will tell you that it is unlikely that there are any indigenous races to the North American continent, since the discovery of a land bridge from Asia 28,000 years ago. The term 'native" has become an anachornism. A political courtesy that just means they got here first.
2) The term 'racist' is being used way too often, and to describe a much broader collection of attitudes than it's root meaning intended. Usually during an emotional knee-jerk reaction to a point of view that just happens to be contrarian.
3) Our own gov't, having over regulated U.S. companies right across the border, is where the blame for the loss of jobs needs to be put, but unfortunatley, it never seems to show at the ballot box. The same old names whos' purpose is party first, pork second and screw the people keep getting elected. Apathy seems to be our greatest enemy.
4) Finally, if we didn't have sports I guess the the fastest growing segment of the population, would be those being committed to asylums.
'nuff said.
MOV
[This message has been edited by Man O' Vegas (edited 05-19-2001).]
1) A crash course in anthropology will tell you that it is unlikely that there are any indigenous races to the North American continent, since the discovery of a land bridge from Asia 28,000 years ago. The term 'native" has become an anachornism. A political courtesy that just means they got here first.
2) The term 'racist' is being used way too often, and to describe a much broader collection of attitudes than it's root meaning intended. Usually during an emotional knee-jerk reaction to a point of view that just happens to be contrarian.
3) Our own gov't, having over regulated U.S. companies right across the border, is where the blame for the loss of jobs needs to be put, but unfortunatley, it never seems to show at the ballot box. The same old names whos' purpose is party first, pork second and screw the people keep getting elected. Apathy seems to be our greatest enemy.
4) Finally, if we didn't have sports I guess the the fastest growing segment of the population, would be those being committed to asylums.
'nuff said.
MOV
[This message has been edited by Man O' Vegas (edited 05-19-2001).]
Hey Fletcher, Thanks for sharing your picks and insight w/ us. I have been following this site since the begining of the football season and you have helped me learn some about sports capping. Yet I don't agree w/ your worldview in general. You dont have to be a citizen that can vote here to have the right to bitch about America. You could be monk living in a remote asian jungle and have a solid right to bitch about America. It depends on what your problem is. Having said this I dont have an intend to bitch about anything. I don't agree w/ alot of stuff going on here as well as the rest of the world. America is a very good candidate to be critised cause it's powerfull and have foreign policies that efects the whole globe. Moral of the story: Everybody should have the right to voice their opinion as long as they respect others and know what they are talking about.
Now about the migration: America is build by imigrants over the last couple centuries. Some came here willingly some as slaves. I personally find it unfair to see imigrants as unwanted people.
"More of them move north to dirty up our city's and to get free health care! Why should I have to foot the bill for these people"
This comment sounds like streotyping to me. Are they all getting free health care and dirtying your cities? Is stify just talking about the ones coming from south since he specifies that they are moving North(from mexico?)? What would you feel if you were a mexican? Is being born in US give you the right to talk shit.
I don't think this subject is bigger than us. Definetly it requires more effort to find out than give up and leave it to politicians and assume they know the best of everything. Don't underestimate ourselves, If we can figure out these leagues we can figure lots of other things too.
And thanks for the crash course in anthropology Man O' Vegas. Learned something new today. As the Human races MIGRATED all over the globe I think it's unlikely that there are any indigenous races to any continent. About the term Native: As you said, they got here first but paid(foot) the bill for more and more of THEM moving from europe and ditying their cities.
what you said about racism is probably one of the best I've heard lately. I agree. I'll write it down.
stify I dont mean to be incencitive. Sorry about your predictament. Maybe you can learn to respect THEM first. It will be easier to live together. I dont think (morally) you can win the "Who was here first?" pee contest.
Yeaa can't wait for the football season.
[This message has been edited by alienxtrm (edited 05-22-2001).]
Now about the migration: America is build by imigrants over the last couple centuries. Some came here willingly some as slaves. I personally find it unfair to see imigrants as unwanted people.
"More of them move north to dirty up our city's and to get free health care! Why should I have to foot the bill for these people"
This comment sounds like streotyping to me. Are they all getting free health care and dirtying your cities? Is stify just talking about the ones coming from south since he specifies that they are moving North(from mexico?)? What would you feel if you were a mexican? Is being born in US give you the right to talk shit.
I don't think this subject is bigger than us. Definetly it requires more effort to find out than give up and leave it to politicians and assume they know the best of everything. Don't underestimate ourselves, If we can figure out these leagues we can figure lots of other things too.
And thanks for the crash course in anthropology Man O' Vegas. Learned something new today. As the Human races MIGRATED all over the globe I think it's unlikely that there are any indigenous races to any continent. About the term Native: As you said, they got here first but paid(foot) the bill for more and more of THEM moving from europe and ditying their cities.
what you said about racism is probably one of the best I've heard lately. I agree. I'll write it down.
stify I dont mean to be incencitive. Sorry about your predictament. Maybe you can learn to respect THEM first. It will be easier to live together. I dont think (morally) you can win the "Who was here first?" pee contest.
Yeaa can't wait for the football season.
[This message has been edited by alienxtrm (edited 05-22-2001).]
