At The Track Forum

[hogman14]

Gotta say I do like this forum.

My take on horses is, there are those who understand how it works (Jimbo, airports, IE, sharky, hammie, mully, koz, azbob, and apologize if i left you out...).

These are the guys who understand the value in horse racing. I don't mean the fact that it's a $2 minimum bet value wise, but the value in the ML of particular horses. It's similar to baseball. CC Sabathia goes off at -300, there's a pretty good reason, when he hurls a 2 hit CG gem. They also understand the longshot, and the "live dog" theory.

What you'll find around Derby time, is that it's like betting football. Everyone all of a sudden is a track junkie, and think they know who's going to take the roses without knowing the difference between a claiming race and a filly. These are the same guys that go to Vegas and play 10 team parlay cards for 25$ with the hope of sitting on the top of Encore in the commercial with Steve Wynn.

Hats off to the horse cappers here. Whether I post all the time or not, I'm still a voyeur to the track, and love the action. It's a shame what horse racing has become, but there are opportunities to make money, and that's what it's all about.

:0008

 

[azbob]

Thanks for the thoughtful note.

It is interesting that Indian gaming and casinos in every state have negatively impacted horse racing and yet, adding slot machines and partnering with casinos seems to be the solution, in some cities, for recovery.

Hopefully, by the time I retire, the industry is still viable as I would like to devote time everyday to handicapping and visiting tracks. I think viability is somewhat questionable as there are alot of factors pushing in the wrong direction.

I always think about my introduction to the track at Turf Paradise in Phoenix. I hung around with the "characters" who are a part of every track. They were a pack of 5-6 old guys who read every inch of the DRF, knew the horses, knew the jockeys and each had their own approach to handicapping. They bet a couple bucks on every race and had an opinion on every horse. Luckily, they didn't mind sharing their stories and expertise with young guys who didn't know too much about anything. I'm sure we amused them and they entertained and educated us.

Meanwhile, I keep an eye on my watch list, certainly at least check in here to read picks and posts and wager a dollar or two on most days.

Continued success to all the posters here

 

[hogman14]

azb

I know what you mean. Grew up at the greyhound track by me (Wonderland) and really just hung there, and was a way to spend 50$ and more stay out of trouble. To me, dogs was no capping necessary, obviously one knew the box out, that crap, but really, was a crap shoot. One night, was maybe 19, hit the Superfecta, 3-7-4-1, and the tri 3-7-4 same time. I remember the payout was 788 and change. I go to the window and the lady at the window says, "you might want to see someone about this." I had no idea. So she introduces me to one of the guys who might as well have been a barstool in the place, "mikey," and he basically explains by saying, give this guy 40$ and he'll cash the ticket, that way you won't have to pay the taxes. Sounds good to me. Only thing is the guy says he needs to go leave first, and pick someone up, some happy hoss crap like that, and the guy I just met feels like a jerk, and says hey just cash the ticket. So, he does, takes his rake, I give "mikey" $20, the cashier who tipped me off the same, and high tail it out of there like i robbed the joint.

To your point though, years later met a serious horse player who was a vendor for us where I worked. I asked how he knew so much. He asked me to name something obscure like the WR's for the Stl Rams, which I did no problem. He said "see, it's all relative, I know jockeys, horses, and trainers, you know football." When he put it like that, it made sense.

That said, as well, I'm not sure that Suffolk will be open. Tough to say if it's the Injuns, or just a dying sport, really. Probably the truth is somewhere in the middle. I know a casino is the only way Suffolk will stay open. Not that I was ever there in their "Glory Days" but, at 31, I've been there when the handle was enough to publish. Now, they just put N/A, embarrassing.

 

[Jimboski]

I THINK you were referring to this post?

I THINK you were referring to this post?

In the thread started by me:

I have submitted some thoughts in the forum. Let me know what you think.

Good story about your experience at the dog track. You had to be careful about that stuff though and make sure you stick close to the guy whose doing the cashing. I think that kinda stuff hardly ever happens anymore with the small crowds and the track security. MUCH more of that stuff happened in the days when the track was packed (GOOD OLE, exciting days) was more prevalent.

IT is sooo depressing to see the no. of people who frequent the tracks these days. Maybe somebody knows the answer to the question that I sometimes think about,"Once upon a time the numbers runners would take action on the NUMBERS game. You know, the last three figures of the track handle (or attendance?) at the nearest nearby racetrack. Is there still a numbers game for the local bookies and, what I wonder most about, what track still publishes the handle?

FREE PICKS for anybody who can answer that. :mj07:
(Hey, the "magic" will be back with me at some point, maybe soon.)

HM/Hammy, enjoy racing ANYway you like. I've thoroughly enjoyed the sport A LOT. Still do, but made it into a semi business kinda thing - not really a fan of any horse anymore, just treat the game more like a puzzle that needs to be SOLVED and profitable. I no longer follow the BIG GUNS anymore but I probably can handicap a Kentucky Derby and prob. better now than I could before. That detracts from the enjoyment of the sport though. STILL, I'd rate my enjoyment level at an 8 these days. It used to be an "11".

Sticking with the above point - making it profitable means taking yourself out of the fun part a little and even worser - MORE WORK! One thing that may be easy enough to do is to start tracking OWNERS as well as jockeys and hosses.

NOTHING IS ABSOLUTE with this game - no system, jockey/trainer combo, earnings/start, etc. etc. And nothing beats experience as a factor for beating this sport. I can tellya which horse is gonna win a race about 5 of 7 times when the horses are going around the clubhouse turn. And it isn't the way the are going around the turn that makes that happen - it's how they looked all the way down the backstretch and how far from the leader they are behind the leader as they are just coming out of the turn.

I'm sure them hosses costed me plenty over all the years I've followed them and luckily, I've turned that around somewhat in recent years. Fact is, betting within my means has enabled me to say that the enjoyment I got out of this sport was worth every stinkin penny I've spent on it and much, much more.

Enjoy!

 

[sharky17]

I am a real fan of the game as well, and part of my daily routine is checking the drf website and looking at entries and results from a few different tracks.

But that said, it is a damn tough game to beat. It requires a lot of discipline, particularly with simulcasting, where you could likely bet a race every 5 minutes all afternoon long on a Saturday or Sunday. And the track takeout is a killer as well. It is something many handicappers don't realize, but the "house" take on most wagers is at least 20%, and some exotics at some places are over 26%, which makes it real tough to beat over the long haul. (At Pinnacle in most cases, I can bet a football game at 5% juice......) This is one area that needs to be improved for horse racing to survive in a new gambling market in my opinion.

The other major beef I have is with the handicapping information available: If I want to handicap a baseball game for instance (likely the best example), there is literally every bit of information I could want available on the internet for free; if I want to handicap a horse race about the best I am going get is maybe a post position, horse name and jock-trainer-owner names. Anything beyond that, and I have to pay for it. I have no problem paying for more sophisticated information that the Daily Racing Form provides (ie: Beyer figures, trainer patterns, etc), but there should be some basic Past Performance and pedigree information available for all tracks at no cost. I think it is wrong that a track charges me for information to risk my money on their product (most harness tracks here in Ontario will provide free programs on their websites).

However, after that rant, I am still drawn to the game. I think the track is a great place to spend a sundrenched afternoon and I find something truly amazing about the beauty, grace and sheer power of a racehorse. I have been lucky enough to visit a lot of the great American tracks and have met some pretty cool people at these places along the way. I have been to a Breeders Cup (in 2010 when Zenyatta couldn't get up to get Blame for her only defeat) and the Kentucky Derby on five occassions (saw Barbaro for my first in 2006 and in 2008 hit a $40 cold Proud Spell/Big Brown Oaks/Derby Double which paid $39.80 on $2 and I still brag about to this day to anyone who will listen - haha).

So....although I will post many more losers than winners, if I see something I like and have a chance, I try to post it here......so at least you guys can cross a couple off your forms. :lol:

And as I like to tell my buddies, "I've got a hot tip on a slow horse."

:toast:

 

[azbob]

Thanks for the post Sharky.

I recently relocated to the midwest for 2-4 years so we are planning to hit some of the tracks for the first time.

We plan on Churchill next year (although not for the Derby). Do you have any thoughts on other tracks we should be sure to visit in the midwest/south/southeast?

 

[hogman14]

az bob

If you want to see Suffolk Downs ever, might want to make it up here first. Unless they pass casinos as part of it, it's as dead as disco. At age 31, I agree w/Sharky, not a bad place to come out on a nice day, have a few cold ones, shoot the crap w/the regulars, and maybe get lucky. The other thing I have to agree with, is yes, the paid DRF provides more information, but it's also damn hard to read. I know it only takes probably a 25 minute lecture, but even with all the homework I've done on the actual homework, I have trouble explaining how it works to some of my buddies.

It's funny because every time we go to Sufferin Downs (which isn't very often), we always joke that it could be our last time there. Many of the better jockeys there (there are still some good ones left, w/due respect) have gone, and the grass is literally greener on the other side, in this case, I'm afraid...Nothing beats your horse trying to come in and cheering it along while a Delta 747 is taking off above you. Listen, I know this isn't Flushing around US Open time, but still.

Probably about 6-7 yrs ago, the state voted against dog racing in all its sorts. Another kind of tragic end to a sport that was going away anyways. Less jobs, less state revenue. Such is life I suppose. If I'm ever on vacation, and it's feasible to hit a track or two, I'll make a little effort. Just actually went to a wedding near Woodbine, unfortunately time was not on our side, otherwise I would have checked it out. Been to Derby Lane down in Tampa, Gulfstream, as well as Tampa Bay downs (where we saw Don Zimmer, asked him for a tip, he's as clueless as the rest of us). Would love to go to the Derby some day, I know it's one of those guy's sports bucket lists up there for many w/the Masters and the Super Bowl. Oddly enough, probably the most accessible of all of them. Saratoga is also a nice spot if you do come north east.

Good luck with your travels, friend, and maybe we can keep this post going with these great stories. Because we sure as <bleep> can't pick horses. :lol:

 

[sharky17]

Yes, Hogman, at least we can tell stories....none of which seem to include large scores.....:mj07:

Unfortunately we are likely going to lose Fort Erie up here in Ontario. It was pretty cheap stock, but it really was a beautiful old track. The Ontario government is going to end the "Slots at Racetracks" program here, which has left the entire industry in limbo, but that is another story....

AZ BOB - Churchill is a must see. It is a massive place, but they sure can pack it the first Saturday in May. I have only heard stories how empty it is there otherwise. In the Midwest, I have also been to Turfway Park on a guys trip to a Bengal game one year. We had a blast, but to be honest, it's a dump and is likely on it's last legs. Also been to Hawthorne in Chicago, again on a football trip to a Northwestern Wildcats game. We had a lot of fun there, but it is pretty rough around the edges as well. If I could suggest one must see in the Midwest, I would recommend Arlington Park. I thought it was absolutely beautiful. We took a train from downtown, which if I recall was about a 45-50 minute ride, but there was a stop right at the track which was great. A little further east I have also been to Presque Isle Downs in Erie, PA, which is basically a slot parlour/casino with a racetrack there.
I haven't been to Keeneland, but it is a must for me sometime soon I hope.

As Hogman also said, Saratoga and Gulfstream are must sees. We had great experiences at both locations, although Saratoga Springs is expensive as hell that time of the year.

I've been lucky enough to be able to incorporate trips to the track with guys trips and vacations with my wife, who enjoys the beautiful places like Arlington, Del Mar, Saratoga and Gulfstream. I don't think she'd be so keen if we planned a trip around a visit to Urbana harness track in Ohio, however.

 

[hogman14]

I don't think she'd be so keen if we planned a trip around a visit to Urbana harness track in Ohio, however.

:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: