Boise State at Hawaii

StuckinNJ

Registered User
Forum Member
Jan 8, 2002
146
0
0
Farther South, Nearer God
Anyone can look at this match-up and see that BSU is clearly the better team. They have lost only 1 game this year (out of conference, at Oregon State), averaged nearly 44 points this year against all comers, and averaged over 50 against their last 6 opponents, 5 of whom were WAC teams. Hawaii, on the other hand has lost 4 games, 2 of them in conference. They have only averaged 34 points per game against all opponents this year, while giving up an average of 13 points per game more than BSU. To pick Hawaii, we need, what, at least 24?

Nah, 10 is more than enough.

BSU is indeed a scoring machine, and Hawaii?s defense should be no more capable of stopping it than any of the other WAC defenses. I fully expect BSU?s offensive performance to fit right in with their other games this year, but maybe not how you think. They may have averaged 44 points per game, but when you take out the SMUs, the SJSUs, the UTEPs, etc., you see that a lot of those points were unnecessary fluff there to pad Dinwiddie?s stats. Come on, 77 points against hapless San Jose? Against teams with winning records (@ OSU, Tulsa and @ Fresno St), their average offense output has been a much more reasonable 27 points. So, for the moment, let?s say that we expect BSU to put up around 27.

What about Hawaii? Their 34 points per game average is just as padded by scores run up against weak sisters, right? Nope. In their three games against teams with winning records (@ USC, @ Tulsa and Fresno St.), they averaged 34 points per game as well. So, do I expect Hawaii to win by around a TD. No, not that either.

For a given team to be playing Hawaii is simply nowhere near enough information to determine who should win. There really are two completely different Hawaii teams - Hawaii Home and Hawaii Away. Most teams have some sort of Home Field Advantage (or Disadvantage as may be), but with Hawaii, how we traditionally think of HFA doesn?t come close to covering it. BSU is playing Hawaii Home, which averages 44 points per game, as opposed to Hawaii Away which only averages 24 points per game. THAT is how you come up with the 34 point average, rather than running up the score on teams like Nevada. So am I saying Hawaii (Home) should win by around 17? No, I'm still not done, because that only addresses location's impact on Hawaii.

Look at what visiting teams like BSU have to do to play at Hawaii. First off, they have to dig the tractor out from under the snow to pull the team hay-wagon into town (pop. 238) to wait for the Greyhound bus to? No, scratch that - that was a cheap shot.

Seriously, I doubt that there are any direct flights from Boise to Honolulu, even for conference-leading football teams. I?d guess you?d be looking at least 10 hours travel, plus God knows how much additional time for airport security to check all of those shoes. Probably dorm-to-hotel is something like 16 hours, at best. And then your watch is off by 3 hours. And you?re sweating like a pig, because it is winter in Idaho, but Endless May in Hawaii. And now you have to play a football game in the next day or two at what feels like midnight. This is why teams that go to Hawaii to play almost always seriously underperform and conversely, why Hawaii on the road is nowhere near as good as at home. So, now we?re up to around Hawaii by 20, huh? Still no, as 3 points aren?t enough to describe the HFA for Hawaii. I personally think it hovers around X points. That?s right, X points (cue visions of Steve Martin at the bank in The Jerk). How much is X? It?s a bunch. So, I make it Hawaii wins by 17 + X. No, wait, two more things.

First off, Timmy Chang either has a still sore ankle, or JJ is sick of the interceptions. Either way, we saw what Jason Whieldon can do (against Bama) and if he should struggle this week, Chang is always available. Anyway, Whieldon?s inexperience would be a bigger issue against a normal pass defense rather than against BSU?s version of the WAC/Swiss Cheese pass defense. Secondly, you have to expect BSU to step up at least a little to meet the scoring pressure they will face for the first time in 2 months. Good teams with good coaches can and do rise to the occasion.

Now (finally) I am ready to wrap it all up. Unless BSU has an awful game with turnovers, I don?t really see Hawaii running away with this game (as opposed to the impression you might have gotten). In fact, despite all of the preceding expert analysis and unassailable logic, I have to admit that deep down, I cannot help but wonder if BSU might pull out a 10 point win after all. Nonetheless, my read is that Hawaii is the pick here. I say Hawaii +10 is a slam dunk and if I can find Hawaii at over +420, I?ll go money line as well. Lastly, I don't think that the line is going to move against Hawaii, so there is probably no harm in waiting to see it you can get a better line.
 

gman2

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 12, 2002
9,827
16
0
thats a damn good write-up.

i just have a feeling that game might be eerily similar to the bowling green/miami game.

its almost the same kind of scenario.

road team laying a TD (in this case a little more) against a team that is outstanding at home.

home team coming off a 2h comeback win last week (hawaii vs. bama.....bgsu vs. toledo)

road team extremelt explosive in the pass game (miami and boise very similar)

home team with an equally good offense, but slightly inferior defense.

home dog looks very live but yesterday's miami game was a shocker in terms of bg losing like that at home. just not sure if i have faith enough to back hawaii in the same kind of spot.

youre right -- playing on the island is the equalizer, but playing at the doyt was supposed to be the equalizer for bowling green (long home winning streak and all kinds of things in their favor)

another similarity:

boise played a relatively easy wac schedule just like miami played an easy mac schedule. but the fact is, they would have destroyed most teams they faced.

im really pulling for hawaii to cover. just cant put my money on em.
 

StuckinNJ

Registered User
Forum Member
Jan 8, 2002
146
0
0
Farther South, Nearer God
gman2

gman2

Thanks for your post. Every bit of well thought-out commentary and questioning of my position helps me focus, so I do appreciate it.

I think I see more differences than similarities with the Miami/BGSU game.

I had Miami -7 because 1) they had beaten BGSU by significantly more earlier in the season, 2) while BGSU numbers were down in the first game, so were Miami's, so I thought any BGSU improvements would be at least partically offset by Miami improvements and 3) I thought BGSU's subpar performance in the first game was in the main part due to the scoring pressure Miami put on them from the 2nd quarter on. When I am trying to figure out where I stand on a college football game, I try to look at how they have done against similar opponents and situations earlier in the year. Obviously in the case of a rematch, this methodology is biased towards the (statistical) winner of previous games, so it is unsurprising that I came down on the Miami side. (As a somewhat humorous aside, I blew my potential winnings at halftime because I got fixated on creating nearly riskless a middle around Miami -7 by taking BGSU +3.5 in the second half.)

I am on Hawaii because I see Boise State's season stats as misrepresentative of how they play in games against decent opponents. It's not that they are not good, I just think that there is a large amount of slop in the line that reflects their gaudy scoring history that in the most part was run up against poor teams. I also think that the degree to which Hawaii's home performance is different from their road performance is not recognized in the spread.

I do share your concern, though, that BSU comes in and hangs up some obscene score. I underestimated them badly in the Nevada game and hope that I haven't done it again here.
 

bear

Registered User
Forum Member
Jan 17, 2000
1,883
12
38
77
Fairfield, CT., USA
Excellent!!!

Excellent!!!

Hey Stuck......

You do a real nice job!

Just talking about this game today and much of what you said came up. Schedule strength.......BIG home field advantage .... padded offensive strength - Boise.......36pts away from home......50+ at home etc etc..........

I love Hawaii in this spot....... Great work ........in addition to all your other posts!!!

GL
bear
 

edludes

Registered User
Forum Member
Oct 25, 2001
3,592
38
0
alaska
Everybody knows that Hawaii covered as a 3 point dog and was high as a kite to defeat the Alabama squad last week.The opening line of ten points for this game tells me that the linesmaker is asking the player to take Hawaii again,this time you get a generous ten points!!!Most of the Hawaii threads I've read expect them to win outright (naturally,they did last week against ALABAMA!!) the game(who wouldn't after LAST WEEK.)Plus they're undefeated at home this year,right?So they would be jumping on Hawaii getting any points at all,I'd think.Why did the Linesmaker set the number so high if they didn't need to to induce Hawaii action?After thinking this over carefully I played Boise State-10.GL either way
 

Loser

Registered User
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
125
0
0
How high can the kite fly??? SJS and Nev played the right game and beat Hi. Ltech did just the opposite and opted a shootout and lost. This is the kind of game Jones likes and wins. Bsu offense very similar to Hi. Wheildon gets the start but Chang will get time and knows this is his last chance to get the fame back that he lost (remember Rolovich?). This will be a shootout. No doubt. Don't see Hi crumbling now. +11
 

StuckinNJ

Registered User
Forum Member
Jan 8, 2002
146
0
0
Farther South, Nearer God
To BSU -10 supporters

To BSU -10 supporters

I know a lot of folks come down on the side of BSU -10. I don't, but perhaps I am wrong.

I have trouble myself distancing my predictions for games from my conscious and unconscious perceptions of the teams involved. For example, I still have difficulty believing Notre Dame isn't good any more, so I have to be doubly sure that these types of prejudices do not enter into my handicapping.

Here is my question: Can anyone make the case that BSU is a great team and should put up over 30 points on the road against Hawaii using only results and stats compiled against conference opponents with winning records this year?
 

nole47

Registered User
Forum Member
May 14, 2001
637
1
0
54
florida
too many people would love boise at 9 but get nervous at 11? thats 2 points. step back for a second for a reality check.55-27
 

Unicorn

Registered User
Forum Member
Jan 19, 2001
755
0
0
Gahanna, OH USA
The only thing I would mention is the difficult task Hawaii will have getting up for another game against another pretty good opponent when the Bows are coming off the "biggest victory in their program". That Bama game was like a national title game to Hawaii last week and they played like it. Which means they prepared for it all the prior week, and enjoy it the week after. Boise is the type of team that can take advantage of that kind of a hangover. By the time a team regains their focus, they're down 21-0 and there goes Sparky.

Finally, granted BSU stats are padded like Britney Spears' breasts, but this Dinwiddie is the real deal. He's like Doug Flutie in his prime. He hits receivers in stride, scrambles and will present problems to Hawaii that they didn't have to worry about with Bama. Not to mention his O-Line might have 2 or 3 future pro's in it. No doubt that the long trip might take something out of BSU, and if anyone knows when they flew out there that would be good information.

Not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just liked Stuck's writeup but did see the possibility of under importance placed on the Bama hangover, and the undervalue of how good Dinwiddie is.

Looks like an over to me but hard to go against BSU.

Good luck all
;)
 

gridman

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 22, 2000
477
2
18
honolulu, Hi, USA
Big Warrior fan here but my head is leaning to BSU. Dinwiddie the difference maker plus Boise's under- rated defense. Believe me, Dinwiddie is the real deal. Hawaii could give BSU a run for the $$$ but believe there is too many X factors that are difficult to decipher - Will Hawaii come off the clouds and re-focus for BSU? Will their defense step up to the plate again? Will Whieldon have 2nd game jitters? Will Jones come off his ego trip and keep Chang off the the field? It's Senior Nite for Hawaii and will its playeres let it all hang out for their last game in front of the home crowd? If and I say it with a "BIG IF" Hawaii can overcome all these X factors, then there will be a heck of a game between two high powered offenses. Did I say over?

Other tidbits to take into consideration from a hometown angle. Many here feel that Jones has put too much loyalty in Chang as he has always said Chang will break Detmer's passing record. Sure, sure, but, anyone could do it if they passed 90% of the time. Believe me, most people here know that Chang might have the tools but the kid is NOT a leader and plays scared against the pass rush hence his so-called off games. Closer analysis of his games (SJS, Nevada, Alabama and even Army) shows his twinkle toes dancing abilities and justify my analysis. Problem was that Jones stuck with Chang too long and refused to sub Whieldon. But Jones was forced to do so in the Army game when Chang couldn't do jack sh-t against such a piss poor team. Enter Whieldon and all he did was complete something like 16 of 17 passes. I guese you might say that Whieldon saved Jones from being embarrassed. Also, in the Alabame game, they knew about Chang's fear and constantly pressured him hence a quick 14-0 advantage. Enter Whieldon and he immediately goes 6 for 6 and pumps up the team ala Rolovich. Now believe me, Boise does know about Chang's fear - check out last year's game. Can Whieldon get it done again. Possibly and then again maybe not.
Oh, Jones has said Whieldon will start but Chang will play some series. I am cringing at this comment. Why would Jones say that unless he meant it. Listen folks, Jones may know his stuff but the guy is definitely on an EGO trip. Do I sound like a Jones basher? Don't think so - only laying out FACTS. By the way, some of this info was relayed to me by some of Hawaii players. FACT! Another tidbit - my contact has said, they respect Boise a lot but feels the team will come to play.

Should be a hell of an enjoyable game! My heart will be with Hawaii but my head says Boise. Not sure if I'll play them. More likely, I'll play the over. Good luck to all!

GM:cool:
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,555
214
63
"the bunker"
home field is huge here...

home field is huge here...

on a neutral,hawaii takes a beating..... this isn`t one of the dominant hawaii teams....it is a dominant bsu club....

that said,i`m leaning toward taking the 11.....haven`t decided yet......

but,it`s in hawaii....strange things happen on the islands...

i wonder how much back to back huge games for hawaii will be a factor....


alabama was big.....getting sky high on consecutive weeks is tough...if the bows aren`t sharp.they`ll get behind early and struggle....maybe get blown out.....

but,with hawaii`s offense,the backdoor should stay open...
 

skillrules

Dedicated
Forum Member
Sep 23, 2002
1,058
0
0
Los Angeles
www.mma.tv
Very good points on this thread.

Ive been thinking about this one for awhile, leaning toward Boise, but find Hawaii games to be hard to forecast. Last week vs. Bama and most of this season Chang has been horrible with decisions and inaccurate passes. Backup came in and was spot on.

A lot of points for a road favorite...watch Boise St. players be all red from sunburn:cool: The one thing I like, Boise St. coach is the least likely to be backdoored of all coaches in D1
 

StuckinNJ

Registered User
Forum Member
Jan 8, 2002
146
0
0
Farther South, Nearer God
Once again, I underestimated the BSU coaching staff's ability

Once again, I underestimated the BSU coaching staff's ability

to get the most out of their players. In spite of a great statistical performance by Dinwiddie, it seemed to me that the BSU kick return unit was the one that decided to take things into their own hands. Across the board, BSU rose to the occasion in a very difficult situation and showed why they are where they are.

I ultimately ended up with Hawaii + 11 and held out hope until there were only 2 minutes to go in the game. As there are no moral victories in sports betting, this is just another loss, but man, if...

Congratulations to all who knew that BSU would be able to pull away.
 
Last edited:

gridman

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 22, 2000
477
2
18
honolulu, Hi, USA
As stated earlier, I really had mixed emotions. Took the over 70 earlier and as the line kept dropping, I increased my total play. And just before game time, I went with my head and took Boise at -10. Lucky me! Was nip and tuck for a while but in the end, Boise proved to be a worthy and deserving victor. They are a very solid team. The Boise-TCU game should be a good one.
GM:cool:
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top