First, I like Cintron here @-171. Both of these guys are bangers and big welterweights. Cintron has seen better work, and if you look at Suarezs' prior bouts, it makes you wonder. On May 5 of 05' he beats some Sydorenko clown who has no idea what being in tough means. A laugh-er for sure. He last fights Webb who he puts too sleep in one. Webbs pedigree is nothing to write home about. I think after the beat down Cintron took from Margarito, he will never take anybody lightly again. Also, this one may get stopped, but is it 10 or 12? If it's 12, I say it doesn't go the distance. Pinny has it lined 9.5, so maybe it's a 10 rounder.:shrug:
Boxing; 10/28/2006; Cintron-Suarez
- Thread starter frank s.
- Start date
i`m a big cintron fan...i love the way he fights.......
i read an article on suarez` bout with alex trujillo who was coming off a long layoff at jr welter...i got the impression that trujillo was the much stronger of the two...and that suarez did much of his damage with a long left jab...as trujollo faded due to poor cardio(one of the major problems in his career)...suarez was 17-1 with only 6 k.o.`s at the time.....
now,at welter,he`s knocking everybody out?.....
did he grow into the weight?....
he`s talking about cintron feeling his power...and he brags about knocking mayweather down in a sparring session...that and a buck gets you a cup of coffee at 7-11...
cintron likes fighting at his own pace...i think that`s why he struggled so badly vs margarito....margarito pressed him....didn`t give him time to settle in...he also had his problems with the pace that estrada set...but,estrada isn`t a huge puncher...
i look at margarito/cintron and pacquaio/marquez in a similar light....
guys that are solid technicians,but if pressed by guys that can punch,they can break down...
suarez started out at a lighter weight..i have to believe that cintron is the bigger guy naturally...he`s a huge welterweight...i read that suarez is a bit "lanky"...
suarez is tall...and has been stopping guys of late at welter....that`s a worry...looks like juarez now has some pop...
but,from what i read...and maybe i`m wrong..suarez isn`t a "pressure fighter"..likes distance....and i think that plays into cintron`s strength....height won`t be an issue here...
something tells me that emanuel steward isn`t looking to get cintron beat again after the margarito debacle....
cintron has name recognition with most boxing fans..he`s exciting....can punch.....he has a bright future...with some big money fights just over the horizon....
i have to think that steward believes that this is an eminently winnable fight for kermit....
admittedly,i`m not real familiar with suarez...just what i`ve read...
i read an article on suarez` bout with alex trujillo who was coming off a long layoff at jr welter...i got the impression that trujillo was the much stronger of the two...and that suarez did much of his damage with a long left jab...as trujollo faded due to poor cardio(one of the major problems in his career)...suarez was 17-1 with only 6 k.o.`s at the time.....
now,at welter,he`s knocking everybody out?.....
did he grow into the weight?....
he`s talking about cintron feeling his power...and he brags about knocking mayweather down in a sparring session...that and a buck gets you a cup of coffee at 7-11...
cintron likes fighting at his own pace...i think that`s why he struggled so badly vs margarito....margarito pressed him....didn`t give him time to settle in...he also had his problems with the pace that estrada set...but,estrada isn`t a huge puncher...
i look at margarito/cintron and pacquaio/marquez in a similar light....
guys that are solid technicians,but if pressed by guys that can punch,they can break down...
suarez started out at a lighter weight..i have to believe that cintron is the bigger guy naturally...he`s a huge welterweight...i read that suarez is a bit "lanky"...
suarez is tall...and has been stopping guys of late at welter....that`s a worry...looks like juarez now has some pop...
but,from what i read...and maybe i`m wrong..suarez isn`t a "pressure fighter"..likes distance....and i think that plays into cintron`s strength....height won`t be an issue here...
something tells me that emanuel steward isn`t looking to get cintron beat again after the margarito debacle....
cintron has name recognition with most boxing fans..he`s exciting....can punch.....he has a bright future...with some big money fights just over the horizon....
i have to think that steward believes that this is an eminently winnable fight for kermit....
admittedly,i`m not real familiar with suarez...just what i`ve read...
btw...a loss here and cintron`s career could go the way of another once promising tall,hard punching fighter, jr.welter,kelson pinto.......
pinto took a chance with miguel cotto,got bludgeoned like cintron did vs margarito....and then lost a tech decision to old vince phillips.....
i`m sure that steward is aware of the stakes......another loss(to at this point,a fringe contender) and cintron`s career is seriously compromised....
pinto took a chance with miguel cotto,got bludgeoned like cintron did vs margarito....and then lost a tech decision to old vince phillips.....
i`m sure that steward is aware of the stakes......another loss(to at this point,a fringe contender) and cintron`s career is seriously compromised....
Ditto. Look at the last 3 guys Suarez fought. Basically low level competition at best. I often wonder what compels a guy to fight tomato cans and win, then think he's ready to make a major step up in class.
1) James Webb: 18-0 when he fought Suarez. Wow! He fought a bunch of nobodies.
2)Viktor Sydorenko: 11-0 when he fought Suarez. This guys competition consisted of 6 and 8 rounders to ALL losers
3) Joel Perez: 0-4 when he gave Suarez such a major challenge! Sure, anything can and DOES happen. Suarez was fighting $3000 claimers, and now he is stepping up to an $35000 allowance race. A different class altogether.
1) James Webb: 18-0 when he fought Suarez. Wow! He fought a bunch of nobodies.
2)Viktor Sydorenko: 11-0 when he fought Suarez. This guys competition consisted of 6 and 8 rounders to ALL losers
3) Joel Perez: 0-4 when he gave Suarez such a major challenge! Sure, anything can and DOES happen. Suarez was fighting $3000 claimers, and now he is stepping up to an $35000 allowance race. A different class altogether.
Additional play on this bout...
Additional play on this bout...
I was initially leaning towards the under 9.5-140 but held off as talk is cheap, and Suarez is doing more jawboning than Cintron. After further analysis, I conclude the under-149 is a play. I reasoned this due to a couple of considerations. Mostly it has to do with Suarez. I feel Suarez is a guy who has fought very limited competition and he has an unsubstantiated opinion of himself. He is cocky, but I don't feel he has all the tools to back it up. I think he will approach this fight as a "street tuff", more less a go for broke brawl. Cintron is more polished and will employ boxing skills, but may get drawn into the knock the the f**k out mentality. I envision Suarez going ballistic, and leaving opportunities for Cintron, hence the play.
Additional play on this bout...
I was initially leaning towards the under 9.5-140 but held off as talk is cheap, and Suarez is doing more jawboning than Cintron. After further analysis, I conclude the under-149 is a play. I reasoned this due to a couple of considerations. Mostly it has to do with Suarez. I feel Suarez is a guy who has fought very limited competition and he has an unsubstantiated opinion of himself. He is cocky, but I don't feel he has all the tools to back it up. I think he will approach this fight as a "street tuff", more less a go for broke brawl. Cintron is more polished and will employ boxing skills, but may get drawn into the knock the the f**k out mentality. I envision Suarez going ballistic, and leaving opportunities for Cintron, hence the play.
Graham Says
October 22, 2006
:
Kermit Cintron against Mark Suarez is one of the year’s potentially most dramatic and exciting fights, yet it is not being televised. People ask why boxing is struggling. This is a classic example. Too many outstanding matches go largely unseen while lesser fights, ones that a fan perhaps wouldn’t mind missing, regularly crop up on PPV or premium cable.
That’s another issue for another time. Today we focus on Cintron vs Suarez, which is for the vacant IBF welterweight title.
This is a fight that normally I would be eagerly anticipating. Instead it will probably be the best fight that I don’t see this year.
There is intrigue and there are intangibles.
Cintron’s shocking collapse in five rounds against Antonio Margarito last year has raised serious doubts about his mental strength and physical toughness.
Don’t be fooled, says his new manager/trainer, Emanuel Steward, that was an aberration, just a terribly bad night that can happen to a fighter.
We all know that Cintron can box and punch. If there is a weakness in his character, though, Suarez is just the type of fighter to exploit it. Suarez is rugged, relentless and fearless — and a puncher. Just the type of fighter who, you might think, will be all wrong for Cintron.
The 27-year-old Suarez, from Riverside, CA, has been training in Florida under the direction of two-time world champ John David Jackson.
We know that Suarez can fight, but he has been hidden on non-televised undercard bouts on those multi-bout Don King promotions (shows that I love to be onsite for, by the way).
Some might remember Suarez boxing as a 140-pounder on Fox Sports shows six or so years ago, when he lost close fights to Alex Trujillo and the southpaw Ricky Quiles.
Suarez is not the same fighter. He served a prison term, exercised every day, and came out bigger, stronger and much more dangerous. The transition was amazing. A tall, rangy boxer-type had been replaced by a walk-forward fighter, big in the back and shoulders, who was walking in and looking to blast his opponents out of the fight instead of merely to outbox, outwork and outpoint them. He has stopped his last seven opponents.
Suarez’s manager, Cameron Dunkin, said over the phone this week that he believes Suarez will be not only too tough but too game for Cintron.
“The difference is, if my guy gets hit on the chin he’ll get up and the other guy won’t,” Dunkin said. “Suarez is not a blowhard, he’s a quiet guy, and those are the deadly guys. He’s a true tough guy, and people don’t know how hard he hits — I tell you, when he hits people it’s frightening.”
Cintron, of course, can punch, too, with 24 opponents halted in his record of 26 wins and one loss.
Emanuel Steward said from training camp this week that if Suarez thinks he will walk right through Cintron he’s making a big mistake.
“Suarez is a rough kid, but it’s funny, everybody’s living on seeing Cintron lost that one fight to Margarito,” Steward said. “In his [Suarez’s] mind, he thinks he’ll come out and overpower Cintron. That’s not the case.
“First of all, Cintron is a very accomplished fighter, and when he took the fight with Margarito I wasn’t involved with him but I know the existing conditions — and I don’t put as much emphasis on winning and losing as some other people. Everybody has that one bad night.
“I feel very good about the fight. Kermit’s in good shape — he’s been training for three months and he’s been boxing with Andy Lee, even though, he’s a left-hander, Johnathon Banks [Steward’s undefeated cruiserweight] and the unbeaten Philadelphia kid, Tyrone Brunson. He’s been in Detroit with me, too, and for the last six months he’s been training with us [in Detroit], he’s been there at all the amateur tournaments, working as a coach, so his mind has been 100 per cent absorbed into just boxing for the last six months.
“He’s a tremendous puncher. I can work with him just on the pads and my body’s aching, more than it does even working with the heavyweights. I never realised he was that good a puncher. And he’s picked up a lot of poise, naturally, sparring with good fighters, being around Jermain Taylor and all these guys at the Kronk gym, being in training camp with Wladimir Klitschko. I think that mentally he’s grown to a whole other level.
“Even though he just has a certain amount of fights on his record I think he’s grown so much emotionally and skill-wise the last year — totally focused — and I think that will be a big asset.”
In his last fight, Cintron made up a lot of the ground he lost in the Margarito fight when he stopped the gritty, resilient David Estrada in the 10th round. It was a fight in which Cintron had to fight his way through a couple of rocky passages.
Suarez, meanwhile, was a quick winner in his last fight, overwhelming the previously unbeaten James Webb in 44 seconds. The Webb camp thought that the referee jumped in too quickly, but Suarez had dropped an opponent whose chin was considered one of his main assets.
“Mark tells me he’s going to go right after Cintron,” Cameron Dunkin told me. “He can’t wait. I hate to question any fighter’s heart, but what happened against Margarito makes you wonder about Cintron — and my guy will be putting a lot of pressure on him.”
Emanuel Steward expects nothing less. “I think that Suarez, coming off this great win over Webb, is not going to be coming out for a decision,” he said, “and we’re not training for a decision, either.”
So this has all the makings of a war between big, strong welterweights who can punch with either hand.
It seems clear that Suarez cannot let Cintron get comfortable in the fight or, worse yet, start to dictate matters. He has to find a way to hurt Cintron early and put serious doubt in his mind.
Cintron was able to overcome adversity against Estrada, but for a while it looked touch-and-go. Estrada was winning the early rounds and just for a moment Cintron looked as if he might be on the verge of falling apart as he dabbed at a cut over his right eye, but he came back with some big punches to turn the fight around.
The fact is, though, that Estrada was able to hit him rather a lot — and Suarez would have to be considered a much bigger puncher than Estrada.
Yet Suarez can be hittable, too, and if he leaves himself open as he tries to land his big shots he could get caught by a punch that will badly affect him. When you think about it, there are not many fighters who take a punch better than David Estrada — and Cintron, after a back-and-forth struggle, ultimately crunched this brave and durable fighter.
“Cintron hurts you every time he hits you,” Emanuel Steward says. Cameron Dunkin says the same thing about Suarez.
Assuming neither man gets blasted by a blockbuster in the first few rounds, there are two things that could decide the fight — what I consider to be the more polished boxing of Cintron and what might be the greater tenacity of Suarez.
If Cintron is able to jab, land his faster punches, make Suarez miss and punish him for mistakes, he can have a great night. If Suarez endures, keeps coming and starts landing his own heavy hits, we will know soon enough whether the seeming psychological frailty that Cintron showed against Margarito was a one-time thing or not.
It should be noted, though, that Cintron stood up to pressure against Teddy Reid before stopping that heavy-handed slugger in the eighth. He was going into the Margarito fight after having been inactive for nine months, it was his first fight after having hurt his right hand, and people close to the situation tell me there were some emotional, non-boxing issues that did not help matters. That said, it cannot be denied that Cintron simply caved in — at ringside I actually felt embarrassed for him.
I do get the feeling, however, that Cintron has matured since the Margarito debacle — and the Estrada fight should have helped him psychologically.
My sense is that Cintron will be able to hold himself together when things are not going his way and use his jab, well-placed blows and hand speed to get a grip on the fight by the middle rounds.
Somehow, a sudden ending does not seem very likely to me — each man will be physically and mentally braced for the other’s blows — but I think that Cintron can catch Suarez often enough and hard enough to have eroded his rival’s resistance by the ninth or 10th round.
Last Updated: October 27, 2006 2:35pm
apparently suarez is a bit of a different fighter than i read about vs trujillo......it looks like he`s coming after cintron.......
ashamed it`s not on the tube....
i can see the under..i think that the suarez camp firmly believes that cintron will fold ala the margarito loss if pressed....
it`ll be interesting to see if cintron folds again...or whether once suarez feels cintron`s power,he`ll rethink the toe to toe strategy....
this should be on the damned boob tube....instead we get drecch like the new england round robin of club fighters(manfredo vs pemberton and spina)...
very sad...
suarez may be good....but,i doubt he`s margarito...
October 22, 2006
:
Kermit Cintron against Mark Suarez is one of the year’s potentially most dramatic and exciting fights, yet it is not being televised. People ask why boxing is struggling. This is a classic example. Too many outstanding matches go largely unseen while lesser fights, ones that a fan perhaps wouldn’t mind missing, regularly crop up on PPV or premium cable.
That’s another issue for another time. Today we focus on Cintron vs Suarez, which is for the vacant IBF welterweight title.
This is a fight that normally I would be eagerly anticipating. Instead it will probably be the best fight that I don’t see this year.
There is intrigue and there are intangibles.
Cintron’s shocking collapse in five rounds against Antonio Margarito last year has raised serious doubts about his mental strength and physical toughness.
Don’t be fooled, says his new manager/trainer, Emanuel Steward, that was an aberration, just a terribly bad night that can happen to a fighter.
We all know that Cintron can box and punch. If there is a weakness in his character, though, Suarez is just the type of fighter to exploit it. Suarez is rugged, relentless and fearless — and a puncher. Just the type of fighter who, you might think, will be all wrong for Cintron.
The 27-year-old Suarez, from Riverside, CA, has been training in Florida under the direction of two-time world champ John David Jackson.
We know that Suarez can fight, but he has been hidden on non-televised undercard bouts on those multi-bout Don King promotions (shows that I love to be onsite for, by the way).
Some might remember Suarez boxing as a 140-pounder on Fox Sports shows six or so years ago, when he lost close fights to Alex Trujillo and the southpaw Ricky Quiles.
Suarez is not the same fighter. He served a prison term, exercised every day, and came out bigger, stronger and much more dangerous. The transition was amazing. A tall, rangy boxer-type had been replaced by a walk-forward fighter, big in the back and shoulders, who was walking in and looking to blast his opponents out of the fight instead of merely to outbox, outwork and outpoint them. He has stopped his last seven opponents.
Suarez’s manager, Cameron Dunkin, said over the phone this week that he believes Suarez will be not only too tough but too game for Cintron.
“The difference is, if my guy gets hit on the chin he’ll get up and the other guy won’t,” Dunkin said. “Suarez is not a blowhard, he’s a quiet guy, and those are the deadly guys. He’s a true tough guy, and people don’t know how hard he hits — I tell you, when he hits people it’s frightening.”
Cintron, of course, can punch, too, with 24 opponents halted in his record of 26 wins and one loss.
Emanuel Steward said from training camp this week that if Suarez thinks he will walk right through Cintron he’s making a big mistake.
“Suarez is a rough kid, but it’s funny, everybody’s living on seeing Cintron lost that one fight to Margarito,” Steward said. “In his [Suarez’s] mind, he thinks he’ll come out and overpower Cintron. That’s not the case.
“First of all, Cintron is a very accomplished fighter, and when he took the fight with Margarito I wasn’t involved with him but I know the existing conditions — and I don’t put as much emphasis on winning and losing as some other people. Everybody has that one bad night.
“I feel very good about the fight. Kermit’s in good shape — he’s been training for three months and he’s been boxing with Andy Lee, even though, he’s a left-hander, Johnathon Banks [Steward’s undefeated cruiserweight] and the unbeaten Philadelphia kid, Tyrone Brunson. He’s been in Detroit with me, too, and for the last six months he’s been training with us [in Detroit], he’s been there at all the amateur tournaments, working as a coach, so his mind has been 100 per cent absorbed into just boxing for the last six months.
“He’s a tremendous puncher. I can work with him just on the pads and my body’s aching, more than it does even working with the heavyweights. I never realised he was that good a puncher. And he’s picked up a lot of poise, naturally, sparring with good fighters, being around Jermain Taylor and all these guys at the Kronk gym, being in training camp with Wladimir Klitschko. I think that mentally he’s grown to a whole other level.
“Even though he just has a certain amount of fights on his record I think he’s grown so much emotionally and skill-wise the last year — totally focused — and I think that will be a big asset.”
In his last fight, Cintron made up a lot of the ground he lost in the Margarito fight when he stopped the gritty, resilient David Estrada in the 10th round. It was a fight in which Cintron had to fight his way through a couple of rocky passages.
Suarez, meanwhile, was a quick winner in his last fight, overwhelming the previously unbeaten James Webb in 44 seconds. The Webb camp thought that the referee jumped in too quickly, but Suarez had dropped an opponent whose chin was considered one of his main assets.
“Mark tells me he’s going to go right after Cintron,” Cameron Dunkin told me. “He can’t wait. I hate to question any fighter’s heart, but what happened against Margarito makes you wonder about Cintron — and my guy will be putting a lot of pressure on him.”
Emanuel Steward expects nothing less. “I think that Suarez, coming off this great win over Webb, is not going to be coming out for a decision,” he said, “and we’re not training for a decision, either.”
So this has all the makings of a war between big, strong welterweights who can punch with either hand.
It seems clear that Suarez cannot let Cintron get comfortable in the fight or, worse yet, start to dictate matters. He has to find a way to hurt Cintron early and put serious doubt in his mind.
Cintron was able to overcome adversity against Estrada, but for a while it looked touch-and-go. Estrada was winning the early rounds and just for a moment Cintron looked as if he might be on the verge of falling apart as he dabbed at a cut over his right eye, but he came back with some big punches to turn the fight around.
The fact is, though, that Estrada was able to hit him rather a lot — and Suarez would have to be considered a much bigger puncher than Estrada.
Yet Suarez can be hittable, too, and if he leaves himself open as he tries to land his big shots he could get caught by a punch that will badly affect him. When you think about it, there are not many fighters who take a punch better than David Estrada — and Cintron, after a back-and-forth struggle, ultimately crunched this brave and durable fighter.
“Cintron hurts you every time he hits you,” Emanuel Steward says. Cameron Dunkin says the same thing about Suarez.
Assuming neither man gets blasted by a blockbuster in the first few rounds, there are two things that could decide the fight — what I consider to be the more polished boxing of Cintron and what might be the greater tenacity of Suarez.
If Cintron is able to jab, land his faster punches, make Suarez miss and punish him for mistakes, he can have a great night. If Suarez endures, keeps coming and starts landing his own heavy hits, we will know soon enough whether the seeming psychological frailty that Cintron showed against Margarito was a one-time thing or not.
It should be noted, though, that Cintron stood up to pressure against Teddy Reid before stopping that heavy-handed slugger in the eighth. He was going into the Margarito fight after having been inactive for nine months, it was his first fight after having hurt his right hand, and people close to the situation tell me there were some emotional, non-boxing issues that did not help matters. That said, it cannot be denied that Cintron simply caved in — at ringside I actually felt embarrassed for him.
I do get the feeling, however, that Cintron has matured since the Margarito debacle — and the Estrada fight should have helped him psychologically.
My sense is that Cintron will be able to hold himself together when things are not going his way and use his jab, well-placed blows and hand speed to get a grip on the fight by the middle rounds.
Somehow, a sudden ending does not seem very likely to me — each man will be physically and mentally braced for the other’s blows — but I think that Cintron can catch Suarez often enough and hard enough to have eroded his rival’s resistance by the ninth or 10th round.
Last Updated: October 27, 2006 2:35pm
apparently suarez is a bit of a different fighter than i read about vs trujillo......it looks like he`s coming after cintron.......
ashamed it`s not on the tube....
i can see the under..i think that the suarez camp firmly believes that cintron will fold ala the margarito loss if pressed....
it`ll be interesting to see if cintron folds again...or whether once suarez feels cintron`s power,he`ll rethink the toe to toe strategy....
this should be on the damned boob tube....instead we get drecch like the new england round robin of club fighters(manfredo vs pemberton and spina)...
very sad...
suarez may be good....but,i doubt he`s margarito...
Yea, I read the Graham article, but thanks for posting it just the same. I don't believe for a second Manny Steward will tell his guy to go after a KO from jump street. But, I'd say most guys, if given an opportunity on a silver platter, will try and get rid of a guy and win the contest. My take is Suarez will give Cintron a shot or two to do this. I really feel he thinks he can walk through Cintron. Well, we shall see; maybe it can happen, but I'm not seeing that.
yessss!.........cintron by 5th round stoppage..
cintron and the under cash.....
i was taking a few lumps in college foots so i went heavy on cinton and played the under along with the par i had....had to lay 2-1....a moot point now...
boxingnews said it was vicious while it lasted...but cintron had to much...was to sharp..
very timely for me.....
very nice post for you,franklin....well done.....
cintron and the under cash.....
i was taking a few lumps in college foots so i went heavy on cinton and played the under along with the par i had....had to lay 2-1....a moot point now...
boxingnews said it was vicious while it lasted...but cintron had to much...was to sharp..
very timely for me.....
very nice post for you,franklin....well done.....
Greetings my brother. Good for Cintron. Suarez was dissing him and was selling tickets he could'nt cash. I guess big mouths aren't the same as big punches. Glad you climbed out of the hole.
