Lots of good stuff next month, but this is a play for me as of right now. Vernon says last time he "could'nt get off" fighting Mora. Well Mora is the snake for sure. The boy slithers and slides so he makes it VERY hard to "get off Is he supposed to be a stationary target for his opponent? I think in the rematch, Mora wins due to EXTREME hunger. He is at the right weight and at 10 years younger than the viper, I like him at +110 at Sportsbetting.
Boxing; 9/13/2008; Mora-Forrest; Las Vegas-MGM Grand
- Thread starter frank s.
- Start date
Suprised there is a rematch. Is there really that many screaming to see this? Im surprised Mora doesn't go for a big paycheck no matter if he gets his head kick in or not. Strange. I actually thought you bumped up an old post.
Yea, Mora by dec. sounds very reasonable. Vernon's 37 year old bones might be hurtin. Sponge-the last one was a split, so I guess they feel a re-match is in order. Forrest is actually the chalk, so it just goes to show ya.
I may be falling for the trap, but I don't think Forrest was lying. I listened to the press conference as he explained his overtraining and the delaying of the fight, he was accurate and reasonable in his assessment of himself. Some fighters get old and refuse to admit it, Forrest didn't make any drastic changes in weight and didnt take too long of a layoff, he just looked awful, and he knew it. He knew he lost the bout, he knew he was done after 4 rounds, and you'll notice some changes in his behaviour: uncharacteristic trashtalk, uncharacterisitc attempts to intimidate his opponent, and a very serious demeanor walking to the ring. In Forrest's best performances, he signs and dances his way to the ring with a sincere smile, showing extreme confidence and relaxation.
Im not joking at all when I say that my bet depends on him ditching McGirt or not. If he sticks with that black hole, I'll probably play Mora by decision. If the indications are that the Forrest who fought Baly and Piricillo is back, Ill play him, as well as him inside. Simply put, I think Forrest is a better boxer than Mora, but had an awful night last time they fought.
Forrest never made as much money as you would expect a fighter of his calibre to make, and there rests 1 big payday left to the winner. I don't think he's satisfied taking a mediocre paycheck on an undercard bout, his hunger should be as high as the younger Mora's.
I try not to put too much value on determination and attitudes, lest I be betting the likes of Hatton and David Diaz, so in terms of pure boxing skill and capability, I think Forrest is still better. If his attitude and training is only average he's still the superior talent. The most alarming thing about the last bout was his terrible workrate and inability to counter someone with no power, but those can be explained by conditioning failures. What may not be explained by that was the poor footwork and inability to move out of Mora's fairly ugly and predictable attack.
Id watch the first fight for clues, but it's just too ugly and depressing. My allegiance here is to Vernon Forrest, he's a nice guy with great boxing skill, and I want to see him win, so my view may be tainted.
Im not joking at all when I say that my bet depends on him ditching McGirt or not. If he sticks with that black hole, I'll probably play Mora by decision. If the indications are that the Forrest who fought Baly and Piricillo is back, Ill play him, as well as him inside. Simply put, I think Forrest is a better boxer than Mora, but had an awful night last time they fought.
Forrest never made as much money as you would expect a fighter of his calibre to make, and there rests 1 big payday left to the winner. I don't think he's satisfied taking a mediocre paycheck on an undercard bout, his hunger should be as high as the younger Mora's.
I try not to put too much value on determination and attitudes, lest I be betting the likes of Hatton and David Diaz, so in terms of pure boxing skill and capability, I think Forrest is still better. If his attitude and training is only average he's still the superior talent. The most alarming thing about the last bout was his terrible workrate and inability to counter someone with no power, but those can be explained by conditioning failures. What may not be explained by that was the poor footwork and inability to move out of Mora's fairly ugly and predictable attack.
Id watch the first fight for clues, but it's just too ugly and depressing. My allegiance here is to Vernon Forrest, he's a nice guy with great boxing skill, and I want to see him win, so my view may be tainted.
i don`t like mora,but,maybe vernon`s done...
when you can`t get off,i always figured that meant it was over....
i`m trying to rationalize why he`ll do better against speed this time(and this time the speed is uber confident)....
gonna have to think about this...
when you can`t get off,i always figured that meant it was over....
i`m trying to rationalize why he`ll do better against speed this time(and this time the speed is uber confident)....
gonna have to think about this...
nj-we are on the same page regarding one thing for sure I failed to mention-McGirth the walking disaster area! He is also one of my reasons for going with Mora. Believe me, I don't think for one minute Mora is a monster by any means. I just think he has the momentum going in, regardless of Vernon's realistic asessment of his last outing.
I bet Mora the last time at 6 to 1 and now its an even fight, so thats not so compelling.
I still think Mora wins, Forrest just doesnt have the workrate anymore to beat someoney like Mora, the first fight IMO wasnt even close, I was surprised or even a little schocked that it was a split decision...
I still think Mora wins, Forrest just doesnt have the workrate anymore to beat someoney like Mora, the first fight IMO wasnt even close, I was surprised or even a little schocked that it was a split decision...
It was an MD actually, 1 draw and 2 for Mora.
It should be noted that Forrest easily won the first 4 rounds, and was able to land power shots on Mora's chin. I thought my inside bet was going to win, but in the corner he told McGirt that he was winded, and from then his workrate fell to basically zero and he didn't throw any of the counters that were working earlier. From this point he also made no attempt to prevent Mora from getting inside.
Forrest didnt really get old overnight, he got old between rounds. He's never been the type to rely solely on speed and reflexes, rather accuracy and combinations. A well-conditioned Forrest only needs to keep a higher punch output and throw combinations and counter punches to win, even his speed and reflexes are poorer than they used to be.
A key factor here is Forrest's jab, he didn't seem to hurt his left shoulder, but didn't throw anythiong to control the distance last time. If he can control the distance and punish Mora for coming inside, and thus keep the fight at a distance, it's his fight.
It should be noted that Forrest easily won the first 4 rounds, and was able to land power shots on Mora's chin. I thought my inside bet was going to win, but in the corner he told McGirt that he was winded, and from then his workrate fell to basically zero and he didn't throw any of the counters that were working earlier. From this point he also made no attempt to prevent Mora from getting inside.
Forrest didnt really get old overnight, he got old between rounds. He's never been the type to rely solely on speed and reflexes, rather accuracy and combinations. A well-conditioned Forrest only needs to keep a higher punch output and throw combinations and counter punches to win, even his speed and reflexes are poorer than they used to be.
A key factor here is Forrest's jab, he didn't seem to hurt his left shoulder, but didn't throw anythiong to control the distance last time. If he can control the distance and punish Mora for coming inside, and thus keep the fight at a distance, it's his fight.
Well, lets just say the Mora camp KNOWS that if they make Forrest work harder than he wants to, they will get the same result. Mora moves so much a guy has to try extremely hard to "get off" on him. So we have a "possible" better conditoned Forrest, and a more experienced Mora(a little more), who still uses lots of movement and fights smarter, who IS the champ. Forrest needs to KO Mora to win in this scenario.
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No doubt Frank, you might be right about that. I think fight is a near pick 'em with the juice on Mora b/c he won last time. There's too many uknowns, Im just giving the Forrest logic. I'll probably wait for props or concrete info from training camp before making a play.
If Forrest remains the same and Mora remains the same, Mora wins. Im not convinced yet that Forrest really is washed up, and the last fight wasn't an anomoly.
If Forrest remains the same and Mora remains the same, Mora wins. Im not convinced yet that Forrest really is washed up, and the last fight wasn't an anomoly.
oh no, Dirt McGirt is back. I actually sent Vernon a messge on myspace wishing him luck and urging him to consider other coaching options :mj07: unsurprisingly, no reply.
here are some notes from training camp:
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Due to their long standing relationship and their shared journey throughout Mora's career, Campos has opted to focus on training only Mora at this stage. Being that Mora has reached his life-long dream of winning a world title, Campos has left his other athletes in order to give his full support and dedication to Mora. With the extra time to prepare and the first bout behind them, Campos has a clear game plan of what he needs to do to prepare Mora in this rematch.
"Basically, we are doing some of the things we worked on in preparation for the first fight, only this time around, with a lot of practice we're able to do them better. I think Vernon will bring more pressure so we're definitely going to be pulling out some new moves."
Mora's training regimen includes sparring three times a week, focusing on strength and conditioning and eating a balanced diet of certain fats, carbohydrates and proteins that his nutritionist Robert Ferguson has created for him in order to keep him performing his best during the training process.
I think psychologically it's good for Vernon too as he was away from home too long for his last camp and probably suffered from some emotional burnout.
Team Forrest has set up accommodations in one of Forrest's homes?secluded in the woods away from much of anything
McGirt sees his primary role at Forrest's camp to help keep him calm and stress-free during their six week training period, not to teach the veteran fighter new moves. (my note: THANK GOD! PLEASE TEACH AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLY BUDDY!)
"For his first fight against Mora, Vernon was in camp too long, almost three months. He over-trained and peaked early. There were days when he should have taken off and he did something anyway, whether running an extra mile or shadow-boxing a few rounds. When Vernon beat Picirillo and Baldomir, he had six week camps for both fights and he looked great. We have a set plan and schedule now and he is sticking to it which makes my job that much easier."
here are some notes from training camp:
----------------------------
Due to their long standing relationship and their shared journey throughout Mora's career, Campos has opted to focus on training only Mora at this stage. Being that Mora has reached his life-long dream of winning a world title, Campos has left his other athletes in order to give his full support and dedication to Mora. With the extra time to prepare and the first bout behind them, Campos has a clear game plan of what he needs to do to prepare Mora in this rematch.
"Basically, we are doing some of the things we worked on in preparation for the first fight, only this time around, with a lot of practice we're able to do them better. I think Vernon will bring more pressure so we're definitely going to be pulling out some new moves."
Mora's training regimen includes sparring three times a week, focusing on strength and conditioning and eating a balanced diet of certain fats, carbohydrates and proteins that his nutritionist Robert Ferguson has created for him in order to keep him performing his best during the training process.
I think psychologically it's good for Vernon too as he was away from home too long for his last camp and probably suffered from some emotional burnout.
Team Forrest has set up accommodations in one of Forrest's homes?secluded in the woods away from much of anything
McGirt sees his primary role at Forrest's camp to help keep him calm and stress-free during their six week training period, not to teach the veteran fighter new moves. (my note: THANK GOD! PLEASE TEACH AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLY BUDDY!)
"For his first fight against Mora, Vernon was in camp too long, almost three months. He over-trained and peaked early. There were days when he should have taken off and he did something anyway, whether running an extra mile or shadow-boxing a few rounds. When Vernon beat Picirillo and Baldomir, he had six week camps for both fights and he looked great. We have a set plan and schedule now and he is sticking to it which makes my job that much easier."
since this is on the undercard of marquez-casamayor and no threads have been created for that fight, here are some notes from that training camp as well:
btw i have a 120 for 100 bet on marquez, but the play here is clearly casa +315, this line is well off
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Casamayor and Bloodworth are back together for Joel's second consecutive fight since they reunited for Casamayor's impressive performance on March 22, 2008 ? a knock out of previously undefeated and then World Champion Michael Katsidis. Bloodworth, who trained Casamayor when he defeated Lamont Pearson and Diego Corrales in 2006, not only serves as Casaymayor's trainer, but as his personal chef as well.
"This camp has been a little bit different for Joel. He is a little more intense and focused than past camps. He's been a pro for a long time, so he trains the same way every time, but this camp he is more dedicated, more intense and training really hard for Marquez."
(not much info on casa)
On Friday afternoon, Marquez travels to Nevado de Toluca where he is tucked away in a no-frills cabin, free from interruption from the outside world (as well as plumbing).
The 69-year-old trainer has described this camp as a change of pace for the experienced Marquez because he is going up a weight class and has had to alter some of Marquez's routine to accommodate the weight difference.
We have been working really hard in the gym. Juan has been lifting more weights to focus on gaining strength and muscle. We have changed his diet as well. He has been eating more carbohydrates to gain the extra weight. Moving up in weight is a very difficult process for Juan because he is a natural 126 pound fighter and normally fights at 130 pounds, so he is going up even more. The weight is definitely an advantage for Casamayor because after the weigh-in, Juan will not gain that much weight. He will probably fight around 142 pounds at the most and Casamayor will definitely go up more than that."
btw i have a 120 for 100 bet on marquez, but the play here is clearly casa +315, this line is well off
--------------
Casamayor and Bloodworth are back together for Joel's second consecutive fight since they reunited for Casamayor's impressive performance on March 22, 2008 ? a knock out of previously undefeated and then World Champion Michael Katsidis. Bloodworth, who trained Casamayor when he defeated Lamont Pearson and Diego Corrales in 2006, not only serves as Casaymayor's trainer, but as his personal chef as well.
"This camp has been a little bit different for Joel. He is a little more intense and focused than past camps. He's been a pro for a long time, so he trains the same way every time, but this camp he is more dedicated, more intense and training really hard for Marquez."
(not much info on casa)
On Friday afternoon, Marquez travels to Nevado de Toluca where he is tucked away in a no-frills cabin, free from interruption from the outside world (as well as plumbing).
The 69-year-old trainer has described this camp as a change of pace for the experienced Marquez because he is going up a weight class and has had to alter some of Marquez's routine to accommodate the weight difference.
We have been working really hard in the gym. Juan has been lifting more weights to focus on gaining strength and muscle. We have changed his diet as well. He has been eating more carbohydrates to gain the extra weight. Moving up in weight is a very difficult process for Juan because he is a natural 126 pound fighter and normally fights at 130 pounds, so he is going up even more. The weight is definitely an advantage for Casamayor because after the weigh-in, Juan will not gain that much weight. He will probably fight around 142 pounds at the most and Casamayor will definitely go up more than that."
Mora IMO is a very underrated fighter, if the fight against Oscar comes up, he (oscar) will need a lot of help from the judges to win.
But Forrest has always been underrated himself, well anyways...maybe it's true and Forrest just had an off-night,...I see this as a very competetive fight, Mora will probably be more active, but I dont know, maybe the judges will favor Forrest again, but then again, there is the fight against Oscar looming on the horizon...
A lot of intangibles, maybe I will bet on a draw.
As for Marquez Casamyoer
I actually could have taken the opener on Marquez, but I thought the line was about right. :/
My money is on Casamoayer.
Marquez is coming off a loss, he's moving up in weight...I really dont see why Casa is such a huge underdog.
Marquez will probably be more active, but the way he was knocked down in some of his last fights (Pacman, Barrera..) and with the kind of punching power that Joel showed against Katsidis...and btw, Casa is a southpaw too... really makes my wonder...
Both fighters are under golden boys promotional banner, maybe we'll have a strange decision here, but I will stick with Joel!
But Forrest has always been underrated himself, well anyways...maybe it's true and Forrest just had an off-night,...I see this as a very competetive fight, Mora will probably be more active, but I dont know, maybe the judges will favor Forrest again, but then again, there is the fight against Oscar looming on the horizon...
A lot of intangibles, maybe I will bet on a draw.
As for Marquez Casamyoer
I actually could have taken the opener on Marquez, but I thought the line was about right. :/
My money is on Casamoayer.
Marquez is coming off a loss, he's moving up in weight...I really dont see why Casa is such a huge underdog.
Marquez will probably be more active, but the way he was knocked down in some of his last fights (Pacman, Barrera..) and with the kind of punching power that Joel showed against Katsidis...and btw, Casa is a southpaw too... really makes my wonder...
Both fighters are under golden boys promotional banner, maybe we'll have a strange decision here, but I will stick with Joel!
Age! Joel could be 40 for all we know. His own mother doesn't know how old he really is. Marquez WAS a 126 lb guy forever. At 135, Joel has the edge. As a bud pointed out, Casa may lull Marquez into a boring counter-punching fight; all the better for Casamajor. Casa by points+650 ain't too shabby. My guys I discuss this some with are on Forrest; I am not. Forrest will look better but so will Mora.
