Boxing - Answers & Questions

THE KOD

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9/13/2003 10:00 PM Oscar De La Hoya vs Shane Mosely

101 Oscar De La Hoya -242
102 Shane Mosely +202

107 Over 10? rounds -260
108 Under 10? rounds +220

9/13/2003 10:00 PM Oscar De La Hoya vs Shane Mosely

109 De La Hoya by KO TKO or Dq +210

111 Mosely by KO TKO or Dq +250

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This is the next fight I am looking at.

Good luck.

KOD

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THE KOD

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I have a question open to anyone for comments.

I know that in football the public overwhelmingly favors wagering on the overs. The unders are overlooked and win alot.

My question is , is it the same thing in boxing ?

I realize that KO's are not the norm so it seems like overs happen much more. But then I see fletcher for instance on alot of unders.
Do you have to balance out playing unders to get the plus money ?


thanks


KOD
 

THE KOD

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"BIG BEAR LAKE, California ? The Sept. 13 rematch between Shane Mosley and Oscar De La Hoya is being billed as 'Repeat or Redemption', and while it's a given that the Golden Boy is motivated to avenge his June 17, 2000 loss to Mosley, to many fans and boxing media the fighter who won the first fight is who is in need of redemption.

Mosley, who met with the press yesterday at his home-based gym, has not won a fight since his July 21, 2001 third-round one-punch knockout of Adrian Stone. He was twice beaten by Vernon Forrest in his only bouts of 2002, and he didn't exactly start this year with a bang, going only three awkward rounds with Raul Marquez before his junior middleweight debut was ruled a No Decision due to an accidental clash of heads.

After 38 straight victories (35 by knockout) over the first eight years of his stellar career, Mosley went 0-2-0-1 in his next three bouts. Over the course of 19 frustrating months, he fell from the mythical status as the no. 1 pound-for-pound fighter in the world to that of a former champion who is perhaps one loss away from becoming a stepping stone for other name fighters.

But it is because of his recent adversity in the ring that Mosley believes he is now at his peak ? physically, mentally and spiritually.

"Those two losses helped me a lot," Mosley said yesterday. "The losses to Forrest made me stronger because it let me know that I had to revert to my old style."

The old style was that of a master boxer who used speed, movement and combination punching to break down his opponents, not that of a two-fisted banger, which is what he had become after his signature win over De La Hoya with easy KO victories over Antonio Diaz, Shannon Taylor and Stone.

> "Somewhere along the way there was a decline in my style," a relaxed and confident sounding Mosley told the media. "I didn't move my head as much as I used to. I didn't tuck my chin in. I had become flat footed. These are little things, but they cost me big. So what the losses did was make me remember that I used to be known for my boxing ability rather than punching power. I really haven't changed much for this fight, I've just reverted back to my true style."

While Mosley has worked to get back to the form that he was in before their first fight, De La Hoya has worked hard in recent years to get away from the style that he feels let him down against Mosley three years ago. Since that loss, De La Hoya has defeated Arturo Gatti in an easy tune-up, Francisco Castillejo for the WBC 154-pound title, Fernando Vargas in a career-boosting grudge match that garnered him universal recognition as the junior middleweight champ, and most recently, a lucrative 'stay-busy' beatdown of Yory Boy Campas.

> In each fight, De La Hoya added more and more technique from his new trainer Floyd Mayweather Sr., from a tricky twist-block-and-counter-punch move to a busier right hand, but Mosley doesn't see an improved Golden Boy.

"I think his hand speed has slowed down and now he's doing things in the ring to compensate for that," Mosley said. "But he's still getting hit. Vargas was able to hit him a lot over the first half of their fight. I give Oscar credit for prevailing in that fight, but I think his new style is only good against guys who come right at him. I'm not going to do that.

"Honestly speaking, Oscar looked a lot better to me back in the day when he had [Roberto] Alcazar in his corner. He looked better when he had [Jesus] Rivero and Emanuel Steward training him and Alcazar helping out. I've been looking at a lot of his old tapes when he had those guys in his corner and he used to throw beautiful punches. He was bobbin' and weavin', throwing good right hands, he was using the ring well, he was a beautiful boxer."

Fight fans and the boxing press used to say the same things about Mosley. The late, great Eddie Futch once even commented that Mosley would have given Sugar Ray Robinson a good fight. But it's been at least two years since anything like that has been said or written about Mosley. Some boxing writers have even demanded that Mosley drop his "Sugar" moniker.

> Mosley says he took the rematch with De La Hoya to prove to those people ? not to himself ? that Futch was right, and that the "Sugar" nickname belongs.

"I know I am going to win this fight," Mosley said solemnly, "but it won't mean any more to me than the first fight did. It's just another win to me. This fight is more for you guys ? the media and the fans. It's to show you that I'm still a great fighter.

"My legacy is the main reason I took this fight. That's the reason I took less money. I really didn't want this fight because I felt that I was being jobbed on the money. When it's all said and done, Oscar gets $20 million and I only get $5 or 6 million. I had to justify taking this fight to myself. So I decided to do it for the fans, because they want to see a great fight, and I decided to do it for you guys [the media] because at one time you had me as the pound-for-pound best fighter in the world, an honor that has only gone to a select few fighters in history.

"I know I'm still there. I know I'm still one of the great fighters out there today because I have the heart and the skills. I know I'm going to go down in history as one of the greatest ever."

> In three and a half weeks, Mosley plans to remind us.

MOSLEY RIPPED AND READY, AS USUAL

Although he wouldn't take his tank top off for photographers, and decided to skip the open workout portion of the 'media day', it was obvious that Mosley is in great physical shape for his rematch with his friendly rival. But that's not exactly a news flash. When has Mosley NOT been ripped and ready for a fight? This is guy who had a "six-pack" when he was five years old. It's safe to say that Mosley, a notorious gym rat, has never been out of shape.

But being in great shape didn't help him out in his last three fights. So what's the difference between this camp and those camps?

"This is the toughest sparring he had since I've been with him," remarked Darrell Hudson, Mosley's strength and conditioning coach. "He needs tough sparring because that's what makes him sharp. He had good sparring for his camps for Forrest and Marquez, but it wasn't all-out gym battles like he has now.

"The sparring he's getting now is pushing him to his limit and it's letting him know how hard he can go when it's fight time."

Hudson, who has been with Team Mosley for close to two years has a point. When Mosley was at his boxing best, as the reigning IBF lightweight champ during the late '90s, he was the king of L.A.'s gym wars.

"For this fight, I'm getting back to what I used to do at the L.A. Boxing Club and the Azuza Gym," said Mosley, who is currently 160 rock-solid pounds. "I used to spar with guys like Genaro Hernandez and Zack Padilla and I had to be sharp and on my toes or I'd get beat up."

> Along with Hernandez, a former two-time 130-pound champ, and Padilla, a former WBO 140-pound titlist, Mosley used to go toe-to-toe with tough and skilled fighters like Hector Lopez, David Kamau, Hector Quiroz, Stanley Longstreet, Dwain Williams, and while he was still a teenager, the great Azumah Nelson.

For this camp, Gary Shaw, Mosley's new promoter, brought in Ishe Smith, an undefeated welterweight prospect, and Peter Manfredo Jr., an undefeated junior middleweight prospect.

"Smith is tough," said Hudson. "He's sparring hard, but he's also giving Shane angles and thinking in there. Manfredo is a middleweight, and he's very strong ? mentally and physically."

Early in the camp, Mosley got some good ring work from junior middleweight fringe contender Jason Papillion, who had to leave due to family matters. Welterweight prospect Jose Celaya is also helping out. But the bulk of Mosley's sparring is taken care of by Smith and Manfredo.

Currently, Mosley spars three to four times a week, often going 10 to 12 quality rounds.

> "I try to take him out because that's what De La Hoya's going to try to do," said Manfredo, 18-0 (8), from Providence, Rhode Island. "He wants it that way from me and Ishe and he doesn't take it easy on us, either."
.................................................

KOD
 

gardenweasel

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scott

scott

i don`t think you can make a blanket statement on the over/under issue....every fight is different....styles,venue`s,promoter`s,motivation,activity levels(have they been fighting on a consistent basis without prolonged layoff),past history,stage of career........etc....there`s one thing in boxing that i have never been able to consistently get a handle on that is a very important factor...the ring-size.....ring`s can vary in size by quite a bit...and usually the promoter try`s to tailor the ring size to suit his boy`s style unless it is stipulated in the contract(which it usually is in big fights).....i`d love to have that info....they should try to standardize ring-size ,imo.....but,seating at different venue`s and other considerations sometimes play a part also...

as far as delahoya-mosely are concerned,this crap about de lahoya`s hand has to make you double clutch a little if you like oscar....he`s basically a one-handed fighter and his left hand is by far his dominant hand....
 
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THE KOD

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Re: scott

Re: scott

gardenweasel said:
i don`t think you can make a blanket statement on the over/under issue....every fight is different

as far as delahoya-mosely are concerned,this crap about de lahoya`s hand has to make you double clutch a little if you like oscar....he`s basically a one-handed fighter and his left hand is by far his dominant hand....
............................................

OK then here is another question on over/under in boxing.

If there are 100 fights how many will generally go under and how many over ? Is this even or lopsided one way ?


I havnt heard about De La Hoyas hand being injured. If he goes ahead with the fight hurt that sucks.

Plus he is making 20 million to fight not totally healthy ?wtf

May be a cry for sympathy and to throw Mosely off his game ?

My initial reaction is Mosley is going to hammer him again.


KOD
 

THE KOD

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Oscar De La Hoya Fights

DATE DEFENDER CHALLENGER LOCATION RESULT


05/03/2003 Oscar De La Hoya vs. Yory Boy Campas Las Vegas, NV 7-RD TKO

09/14/2002 Oscar De La Hoya vs. Fernando Vargas Las Vegas, NV 11-RD TKO

06/23/2001 Javier Castillejo vs. Oscar De La Hoya Las Vegas, NV 12-RD UD

03/24/2001 Oscar De La Hoya vs. Arturo Gatti Las Vegas, NV 5-RD TKO

06/17/2000 Oscar De La Hoya vs. Shane Mosley Los Angeles, CA 12-RD SD

02/26/2000 Oscar De La Hoya vs. Derrell Coley New York
7-RD KO

09/18/1999 Oscar De La Hoya vs. Felix Trinidad Las Vegas, NV 12-RD MD

05/22/1999 Oscar De La Hoya vs. Oba Carr Las Vegas, NV 11-RD TKO

02/13/1999 Oscar De La Hoya vs. Ike Quartey Las Vegas, NV 12-RD SD

09/18/1998 Oscar De La Hoya vs. Julio Cesar Chavez Las Vegas, NV 8-RD TKO

06/13/1998 Oscar De La Hoya vs. Patrick Charpentier El Paso, TX 3-RD TKO

12/06/1997 Oscar De La Hoya vs. Wilfredo Rivera Atlantic City, NJ 8-RD TKO

09/13/1997 Oscar De La Hoya vs. Hector Camacho, Sr., Sr. Las Vegas, NV 12-RD UD

06/14/1997 Oscar De La Hoya vs. David Kamau San Antonio, TX 2-RD KO

04/12/1997 Pernell Whitaker vs. Oscar De La Hoya Las Vegas, NV 12-RD UD

01/18/1997 Oscar De La Hoya vs. Miguel Angel Gonzalez Las Vegas, NV 12-RD UD

06/07/1996 Oscar De La Hoya vs. Julio Cesar Chavez Las Vegas, NV 4-RD TKO

02/09/1996 Oscar De La Hoya vs. Darryl Tyson Las Vegas, NV 2-RD KO
 
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THE KOD

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Shane Mosley Fights

DATE DEFENDER CHALLENGER LOCATION RESULT

02/08/2003 Shane Mosley vs. Raul Marquez Las Vegas, NV No Contest 3-RD

07/20/2002 Vernon Forrest vs. Shane Mosley Indianapolis, IN 12-RD UD

01/26/2002 Shane Mosley vs. Vernon Forrest New York
12-RD UD

07/21/2001 Shane Mosley vs. Adrian Stone Las Vegas
3-RD KO

03/10/2001 Shane Mosley vs. Shannan Taylor Las Vegas
5-RD TKO

11/04/2000 Shane Mosley vs. Antonio Diaz New York
6-RD TKO

06/17/2000 Oscar De La Hoya vs. Shane Mosley Los Angeles 12-RD SD

01/22/2000 Shane Mosley vs. Willy Wise Las Vegas
3-RD TKO

09/25/1999 Shane Mosley vs. Wilfredo Rivera Temecula, CA 10-RD KO

04/17/1999 Shane Mosley vs. John Brown Indio, CA
8-RD TKO

01/09/1999 Shane Mosley vs. Golden Johnson Pensacola, FL 7-RD TKO

11/14/1998 Shane Mosley vs. James Leija Mashantucket, CT 9-RD TKO

05/09/1998 Shane Mosley vs. John John Molina Atlantic City 8-RD TKO

02/06/1998 Shane Mosley vs. Demetrio Ceballos Uncasville, CT 8-RD KO

08/02/1997 Philip Holiday vs. Shane Mosley Uncasville, CT 12-RD UD
 

THE KOD

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February 8, 2003) Las Vegas, Nevada (Mandalay Bay Resort)--

The blood was flowing in Vegas unfortunately it was the result of accidental head butts and not clean shots.

The standard inside joke in boxing is that Raul Marquez starts bleeding in the dressing room. The former IBF junior middleweight king managed to almost last three rounds before cuts once again were his undoing and the crimson cursed Marquez ended the night on his stool.

Sugar Shane Mosley's move up in weight and his quest to regain his reputation were sidetracked when his scheduled 12-round fight with Marquez was halted following two accidental head butts.

Mosley making his first appearance following his two difficult losses to Vernon Forrest seemed to be coming on when he collided twice with Marquez's skull. The end result of the combat opened Mr. Marquez' s eyes like ripe tomatoes and the bout was stopped with 19-seconds remaining in the third round. With blood cascading from both wounds referee Kenny Bayless was left with no alternative but to stop the contest.

As always styles make fight and the southpaw versus orthodox stances provided just enough physics to insure that someone was going to crack their coconut.

"He was a little frustrated, I think, because he was a southpaw and the way he fights," Mosley explained after the bout was ended. "Because most southpaws are leaning back and he more on his front leg and he would dive in with the straight left and he would lead with his headfirst. The way he throws his punches, he comes in right with the head butt."

Marquez making his fifth appearance following a 19-month lay off following a loss to Fernando Vargas was visibly dejected after the brief bout.

"I think I was fighting the right fight, he never hit me with a clean shot where I was hurt," Marquez said. "I was winning the fight, man; I think I was in the fight. I was getting better. That was the style we were using to get to him."

--Friends Turned Enemies--

The lefthander Marquez (34-2, 1 nc, 23 KO's) came out with his hands held high in the first round as Mosley (38-2, 1 nc, 35 KO's) pawed with his left jab. At the 2:32 mark of the 1st, Mosley (154) scored with a straight right hand to the head before grabbing Marquez and spinning his opponent around the ring from behind. With 2:01 remaining in the round, Mosley, Pomona, California, executed the same tactic after landing another straight right.

Marquez (154) continued to circle until he connected with a solid straight left hand to Mosley's chin with 1:39 remaining in the opening stanza. Seconds later, Mosley set his feet and clipped Marquez with a whistling lead right hand to the jaw. With less than a minute to go in the 1st, Mosley connected with a quick three-punch combination that caromed off of Marquez's profile. Moments later, Mosley, 5'9" feinted the right, popped two jabs off Marquez's gloves but then drilled him with another right cross down the middle. Marquez, 5'10 ?", shook his head in denial and Mosley answered with another solid left-right before the boxers fell into a clinch. Marquez responded in close quarters by thudding a heavy left hand off the former two-time world champion's rib cage. At the bell both men touched gloves but it was the end of civility for the evening.

Mosley, 31, started the second round strong and at the 2:45 mark, he took a half step to his right to get the angle and then ripped Marquez with a straight right hand to the face. The fighters became entangled and Marquez put Mosley in a headlock while the ex-lightweight and welterweight king blasted a right hand to belt line. Referee Kenny Bayless struggled to pry the combatants apart and suddenly the contest took on a evil edge. Bayless warned both men but bad blood was clearly evident in both corners.

With 1:40 to go in the 2nd, Marquez, Houston, Texas, cornered Mosley and hammered him with a clean left hand to the chin. Moments later, Mosley scored with a sharp right hand under the heart and Bayless was again compelled to break the fighters. Seconds later, Marquez connected with two clubbing lefts while Mosley countered with a straight right hand. Mosley stepped back, reloaded, and then sank a savage left hook into Marquez's ribs. The shot thudded off the taller man's flank and audible groan rippled through the crowd. Mosley followed with two more clean right hands underneath and Marquez was forced to hold. With fewer than thirty-seconds to go in the 2nd, Mosley reloaded, dipped at the knees, and ripped Marquez with two more right hands to the belly. Marquez closed out the round by scoring a right hand over the top but Mosley answered with another riveting right hand to the midsection.

--Bad Manners--

Marquez put the metal to the pedal to open the third round and clipped Mosley immediately with a right hook to the temple followed by a straight left hand to the chin. At the 2:32 mark of the 3rd, Mosley caught his opponent with another whip-like left hook to the liver. Moments later, both men bent at the waist to deliver blows and as Marquez fired a sweeping left he slammed his head into Mosley's skull. The fighters once again fell into a clinch and Marquez emerged with a vicious slice through his right eyebrow. With blood dripping from his eye Marquez protested that he had been head butted and loudly complained to the Bayless.

Time was called; Bayless signaled that the wound was caused by an accidental head butt and after a cursory examination the contest resumed. Within seconds, Mosley drilled Marquez with a stinging right hand to the face and then just as quickly darted behind his opponent. With 1:54 to go in the 3rd, Marquez missed with a right hook and grabbed Mosley with another grade school headlock. The fighters banged shoulders, bumped, and traded insults while Bayless wedged between the two boxers. Bayless then called time and cautioned the fighters to listen to his command to break. With blood cascading down his face Marquez fumed and the boxers reluctantly touched gloves.

Marquez landed a straight left and then slipped to the canvas after the boxers stepped on each other's feet. With 1:21 remaining in the 3rd, Mosley landed a straight right hand to the gut and Marquez answered with a left elbow that just grazed the shorter man's chin.

With the fans screaming, Mosley connected with another right hand down the middle, created distance, and then ripped in a clubbing right hand to the head. Seconds later, as the fighters attempted to work in close quarters they banged skulls and then went back to pushing, shoving, and attempting to muscle each other around the ring.

Blood continue to pour from Marquez's cut and with 30 seconds left in the 3rd, Mosley rocketed another scorching right hand to the belly. In the very next exchange as Marquez attempted to unload a straight left hand, his head collided again with Mosley's skull.

Marquez recoiled in pain, covered his left eye with his glove, and immediately walked to the neutral corner. Bayless called time and Marquez with his mouthpiece hanging halfway out gestured that he was through for the evening. Blood poured from the new cut that sliced diagonally through his left eyebrow.

The fans responded with a loud chorus of boos that reverberated through the arena. Mosley walked around the ring pleading his case like a Philadelphia lawyer but to no avail. Everyone was unhappy with the outcome with perhaps the lone exception of Mr. Marquez's plastic surgeon. The only winner this night was Blue Cross. "
...........................................................
 

badjab

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Scott,
While it is hard to generalize about over/under in boxing, I think it depends on certain factors. When you're talking about the big fights (Tyson, Lewis, De la Hoya, etc.), or fighters with lots of KO's, I think you are more likely to see more people on the under. This is simply because there is more public money involved and people like to root for knockouts, for the same reason they prefer high scoring football games...they are usually deemed to be more entertaining. When I bet an over/under, it is usually based on my perception of the boxers' ability to take (and land) a punch. When Tommy Morrison was fighting, you could almost guarantee either he or his opponent would end up on the canvas. With the upcoming De la Hoya--Mosely fight, I would assume that this one will go the distance, simply because both guys are skilled fighters who like to pick their shots.
Of course, I don't have any stats to prove that people are more likely to bet under...just my two cents.
 

THE KOD

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aliking1.jpg
ali_jones_knockdown.jpg

Sorry but I think my own mama could knock these two ladies out. Holy shit that one on the left is my mama !

...................................................................

OK what I learned from that last fight. Ali is the up and comer the savior of womans boxing. She is in the spotlight.

Martin was the champ at the end of her reign. I swear I still cant believe that Martin was not able to fend off the punchs.

I never seen Martin cover her belly before she covered her chin.

I could rant about it but its best left behind me at this time. I have a tendancy to get real pissed after a stupid loss and it takes me a day to recover usually.

Wait a minute here. I think thats money that I smell.
 
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THE KOD

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question on boxing.


How much do drugs affect the outcomes and are drugs allowed ?
Is there cheating ? steroids ? amphet ?

Any things that the urine test will not detect ?


Do boxers in every state have to take a urine analysis before
a fight ?

KOD
 

THE KOD

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"France's anti-doping agency has reportedly banned former WBA cruiserweight champion Virgil Hill for two years after he tested positive for two banned substances.
The Council for the Prevention and Fight against Doping tested the North Dakota native on February 23, shortly after his title loss to France?s Jean-Marc Mormeck in the city of Marseille.

The test revealed traces of furosemide and prednisolone, the agency said. Prednisolone is a corticosteroid. Corticosteroids are used to treat inflammation, asthma or allergies. Athletes are known to take them sometimes to help alleviate pain. Furosemide is a diuretic, which athletes have used to shed weight or to cover up any remnants of other drugs.

He has been banned for two years from taking part in competitions organized or authorized by the French Boxing Federation.

It is not known as of yet, if the ban will be carried forward in the United States.

The 38-year-old Hill has battled injuries in the last several years. He quit against Mormeck after the eight rounds, after bleeding heavily from his right eyebrow."
.................................................

The British Boxing Board of Control (BBBC)

has suspended Dominic Negus indefinitely after he tested positive for a banned substance.
A random drugs test after the Essex-based fighter's points loss to Audley Harrison in July showed traces of banned substance 3-Hydroxystanozolol

...................................................

I found this on Virgil Hill. The question remains does the US have a anti doping agency to test fighters ?


}KOD
 
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Romanian boxer Marian Velicu is facing a lifetime Olympic ban after he admitted taking a banned substance.
The Romanian Boxing Federation confirmed the world silver medallist tested positive for drugs in Australia last year.

His second sample was also positive.

Under International Boxing Federation (IBF) rules, Velicu faces a two-year ban.

But under Romanian Olympic Committee rules the 24-year-old boxer faces a lifetime ban from Olympic competition.
Velicu, the losing finalist in the 48-kg category at the 2001 world championships and a European bronze medallist, admitted taking the banned diuretic furosemide.

Velicu said: "It's true that I have taken furosemide but I did not know it was a banned substance at that time.

"I was desperate at the Goodwill Games in Brisbane," he explained.

"I had to lose 800 grams to make the weight limit and I decided to take the drug."
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Oscar De La Hoya may not be able to get his days right, but there's one thing he's sure of -- his left hand feels fine in training for his fight with Shane Mosley.

De La Hoya said Wednesday he took only three days off from sparring after feeling a twinge in his left hand, and has now resumed full sparring and workouts for his Sept. 13 fight with Mosley.

"It actually helped me rest and my body relax by having the time off," De La Hoya said. "I guarantee you my hand will be 100 percent for Mosley."

De La Hoya said last week at his training camp in Big Bear, Calif., that he hadn't sparred since hurting the hand five days earlier. On Wednesday, though, he said he resumed sparring after three days.

De La Hoya had surgery on the hand almost two years ago, and said he sometimes feels pain in it.

"It's a pinch that will always be there," he said. "When I felt it sparring, I panicked and stopped everything."

In a conference call promoting the rematch with Mosley, who beat him three years ago in a split decision, De La Hoya vowed to be ready.

"There's no hiding I have a bad hand. I've had a bad hand ever since fighting Troy Dorsey," he said. "But I'm very, very motivated for this fight. It's like training all over again for one of my first fights."

Mosley said earlier he wasn't paying any attention to reports about De La Hoya's hands.

"I try not to focus on what is going on with Oscar De La Hoya," Mosley said. "I'm focusing on what I'm going to do in the ring."
......................................................................

Looks like the hand is OK


KOD
 
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