Bush pardons 16 last week

[smurphy]

Including a meth dealer (good news for Ted Haggard). BUT still no pardons for Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean, the border patrol agents who shot at a fleeing drug smuggler 2 years ago.

12 congressmen have petitioned Bush to pardon them and virtually all logical people in the US want him to as well. Apparently, Compean and Ramos didn't follow procedure correctly when they picked up spent shells - and that's why they have 12 year sentences.

It's bad enough that nothing is done about our sorry immigration policy. But at least don't punish the few who are generous and brave enough to actually try to do their jobs. What gives, Dubya? Who's side are you on?

 

[kosar]

5....4.....3....2.....1....

Let's go, Wayne!

Let's ignore the content of smurphys post and let's talk about that evil money launderer Marc Rich that Clinton pardoned!

You know you want to.

 

[smurphy]

There's no escape on this one. All true conservatives and real men agree that Bush needs to do this one. I mean, if your letting meth dealers go that nobody has sympathy for then you really should consider seriously the pardoning of two brave agents that 12 fellow conservative congressmen have fully endorsed.

There are countless websites dedicated to justice being served on this case. Endless letters have been written to Bush. The evidence is overwhelming. They never should have gone to jail. The courts are to blame for this travesty, but Bush can make it right. It should be a slam dunk.

 

[kosar]

There's no escape on this one. All true conservatives and real men agree that Bush needs to do this one. I mean, if your letting meth dealers go that nobody has sympathy for then you really should consider seriously the pardoning of two brave agents that 12 fellow conservative congressmen have fully endorsed.

There are countless websites dedicated to justice being served on this case. Endless letters have been written to Bush. The evidence is overwhelming. They never should have gone to jail. The courts are to blame for this travesty, but Bush can make it right. It should be a slam dunk.

Did you know that Marc Rich was on the FBI's most wanted list for money laundering?

 

[smurphy]

Did you know that Marc Rich was on the FBI's most wanted list for money laundering?

Fer realz? Please elaborate....

 

[RAYMOND]

BUT still no pardons for Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean, the border patrol agents who shot at a fleeing drug smuggler 2 years ago.


SHOULD BE PARDONS:sadwave:

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Predictions:

Dogs That Bark will
1.tell you that you are an embarrassment for not providing written documetation
2. He will do a search that includes every word in your post and is therefor to large to generate any hits. He will make a point to show everyone that you are obviously making this p because his search resulted in "zilch"
3. When you provide the source, he will ignore it and/or discredit it

Tenzing will
1. go on a rant about why Liberals are anti-American and hate our freedom
2. use new words from his "Improve Your Vocabulary One Day at a Time" calendar
3. trash you for not providing a source
4. deny the fact that you answered the request for a resource
5. ignore the fact that you asked for sources to back up his rant

 

[smurphy]

Predictions:

Dogs That Bark will
1.tell you that you are an embarrassment for not providing written documetation
2. He will do a search that includes every word in your post and is therefor to large to generate any hits. He will make a point to show everyone that you are obviously making this p because his search resulted in "zilch"
3. When you provide the source, he will ignore it and/or discredit it

Tenzing will
1. go on a rant about why Liberals are anti-American and hate our freedom
2. use new words from his "Improve Your Vocabulary One Day at a Time" calendar
3. trash you for not providing a source
4. deny the fact that you answered the request for a resource
5. ignore the fact that you asked for sources to back up his rant

Yes, I understand the risks I assumed by starting this thread. The ironic thing is most sites discussing this case are conservative blogs. Lou Dobbs discussed this a lot on his show, but I can't actually find the articles on CNN. Found one article on Fox, but it's pretty old.

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Yes, I understand the risks I assumed by starting this thread. The ironic thing is most sites discussing this case are conservative blogs. Lou Dobbs discussed this a lot on his show, but I can't actually find the articles on CNN. Found one article on Fox, but it's pretty old.

You must really hate America. Whoops! Wait, I guess I got stuck in Tenzing mode. I apologize. Not easy to come back to reality after thinking like a lunatic.

 

[smurphy]

I don't hate America so much as I'm just addicted to drive-by leftist media attacks and democrat gang-raping US soldiers in Haditha. Ultimately, I blame Kosar for encouraging dissent and USA losing it's edge.

 

[AR182]

Including a meth dealer (good news for Ted Haggard). BUT still no pardons for Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean, the border patrol agents who shot at a fleeing drug smuggler 2 years ago.

12 congressmen have petitioned Bush to pardon them and virtually all logical people in the US want him to as well. Apparently, Compean and Ramos didn't follow procedure correctly when they picked up spent shells - and that's why they have 12 year sentences.

It's bad enough that nothing is done about our sorry immigration policy. But at least don't punish the few who are generous and brave enough to actually try to do their jobs. What gives, Dubya? Who's side are you on?

yeah..imo these 2 agents got a raw deal.

bush & mccain for that matter lost my support of them over their lack of doing the right thing over immigration. no matter what they say they are both political hacks.

murph...

can you copy & paste the story about who he pardoned ?

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

I thought I posted same thing last week smurph--except I included whole article without the liberal editing--Should wait a while before I post this and trap a few more coolaid sippers--but what the hell

However I'm giving you a--
B+ on sucking in the lemmings

A on liberal half truths
"tell em only the part they wany to hear"

F on attempt to compare what will probably lowest total of pardons by 8 year pres--to one who has to pardon family members on drug charges and most wanted for cash.

A on courage to attempt it


Report looks tad bit diff in full context--and after CBS watered it down

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/28/politics/main889049.shtml

CBS/AP) President Bush granted pardons Wednesday to 14 people, including a member of the mineworkers union who was convicted for his role in bombings at a West Virginia coal mine, a counterfeiter and a bootlegger.

Jesse Ray Harvey of Scarbro, W.Va., was given a 25-month sentence in 1990 after his conviction for using explosives to damage Milburn Colliery. The mine had been the target of a long strike by about 45 members of a United Mine Workers local.

CBS News correspondent Mark Knoller reports that the pardons Wednesday bring to 58 the number of pardons granted by Mr. Bush.

By comparison, his father, former President George H.W. Bush, granted 74 in four years; former President Bill Clinton granted 396 in eight years; former President Ronald Reagan did 393 in eight; former President Jimmy Carter did 534 in four. And former President Richard Nixon, who got one of Mr. Ford's 382 pardons, granted 863, reports Knoller.

Some pardons, like the one Mr. Ford gave Nixon in 1974, protect recipients from going to jail or reduce their sentences. But Mr. Bush has granted clemency mainly to allow people who committed relatively minor offenses and served their sentences long ago to clear their names.

Others granted pardons Wednesday were:


Gene Armand Bridger, Elkhart, Ind., conspiracy to commit mail fraud, mail fraud, sentenced May 29, 1963, to five years probation.


Cathryn Iline Clasen-Gage, Rockwall, Texas, misprision of a felony, sentenced Aug. 21, 1992, to 18 months in prison and a year of supervised release.


Thomas Kimble Collinsworth, Buckner, Ark., receipt of a stolen motor vehicle that had been transported in interstate commerce, sentenced Aug. 22, 1989, to three years probation and a $5,000 fine.


Morris F. Cranmer Jr., Little Rock, Ark., making materially false statements to a federally insured institution, sentenced March 30, 1988 to nine months in jail.


Rusty Lawrence Elliott, Mount Pleasant, Tenn., making counterfeit money, sentenced April 26, 1991, to a year and a day in prison, two years supervised release and a $500 fine.


Adam Wade Graham, Salt Lake City, Utah, conspiracy to deliver 10 or more grams of LSD, sentenced Nov. 23, 1992 to 30 months in prison and five years of supervised release, including 250 hours of community service.


Rufus Edward Harris, Canon, Ga., possession of tax-unpaid whiskey, sentenced June 17, 1963, to two years in prison, possession and sale of tax-unpaid whiskey. He also was on May 28, 1970 to five years in prison, later reduced to two years probation.


Larry Paul Lenius, Moorhead, Minn., conspiracy to distribute cocaine, sentenced Sept. 29, 1989, to 36 months probation and payment of $2,500 in restitution.


Larry Lee Lopez, Bokeelia, Fla., conspiracy to import marijuana, sentenced July 19, 1985 to three years probation.


Bobbie Archie Maxwell, Lansing, Mich., mailing a threatening letter, sentenced Sept. 6, 1962, to 12 months probation.


Denise Bitters Mendelkow, Salt Lake City, Utah, embezzlement by a bank employee, sentenced May 21, 1981, to two years probation.


Michael John Pozorski, Schofield, Wis., unlawful possession of an unregistered firearm, sentenced Sept. 14, 1988, to four years probation and payment of a $750 fine.


Mark Lewis Weber, Sherwood, Ark., selling Quaalude tablets, selling, using and possessing marijuana, sentenced Aug. 20, 1981, following Air Force court-martial to 30 months confinement at hard labor, forfeiture of 30 months pay at $334 a month and a dishonorable discharge.

 

[AR182]

does anybody know when presidential pardons started ?

imo pardons should be given to those who have extenuating circumstances...not for political favors.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

gmroz ak Buckwheat
What are doing online today--figured you'd be glued to TV and be clapping and singing and doing the wave to the music

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

AR--- best I could find on subject--


Humanity and good policy conspire to dictate, that the benign prerogative of pardoning should be as little as possible fettered or embarrassed.
So wrote Alexander Hamilton in The Federalist #74, first published on March 25, 1788. The argument was that when the power to pardon is granted, it should be granted only to a few people, or, in the case of the U.S. Constitution, to just one person.

The U.S. Constitution grants the power to pardon to the President. In keeping with the feeling of the day, expressed in Hamilton's words, the power to pardon is virtually unqualified:

The President ... shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
Hamilton expanded on why he thought this power was important:

The criminal code of every country partakes so much of necessary severity, that without an easy access to exceptions in favor of unfortunate guilt, justice would wear a countenance too sanguinary and cruel. As the sense of responsibility is always strongest, in proportion as it is undivided, it may be inferred that a single man would be most ready to attend to the force of those motives which might plead for a mitigation of the rigor of the law, and least apt to yield to considerations which were calculated to shelter a fit object of its vengeance. The reflection that the fate of a fellow-creature depended on his sole fiat, would naturally inspire scrupulousness and caution; the dread of being accused of weakness or connivance, would beget equal circumspection, though of a different kind.
To the framers, the power to pardon, familiar as a power of the King of England, was necessary because the way the law was applied. In England, it was common for minor offenses to carry a sentence of death, with pardon by the King being the only way to avoid the punishment. Judges often applied a death sentence, having no choice, but at the same time applied for a Royal Pardon in the same breath. This is what Hamilton was referring to when he mentioned "necessary severity" and "unfortunate guilt."

President George Washington used the pardon power after the suppression of the Whiskey Rebellion on 1794. The Rebellion was seen as one of the first tests of the new government. The government instituted taxes on whiskey, the government raised troops to put down a rebellion against the tax, and the President pardoned the participants in the rebellion who had not already been indicted.

Over time, the power of the President to pardon has evolved quite a bit from the words in the Constitution. The President has the power to completely overturn a criminal conviction. This is a full pardon. The conviction is wiped away as if it never happened. The President can commute a criminal sentence, turning a life sentence into a 10 year sentence or a death penalty into a life sentence. The President can make a pardon conditional, vacating a conviction but leaving paid fines in place, or even making the payment of a fine a prerequisite before a pardon takes effect.

It appears as though a pardon can even be granted against the will of the grantee. Originally, however, a pardon could be refused. In the case of U.S. v Wilson (32 US 150) the Supreme Court stated that a pardon is like a gift that can be refused, upholding the notion in Burdick v U.S. (236 US 79). Then began a reversal of the so-called "acceptance doctrine" in Biddle v Perovich (274 US 480) when it declared that the commutation of a death sentence to a life sentence could not be refused: "A pardon in our days is not a private act of grace from an individual happening to possess power. It is a part of the Constitutional scheme. When granted it is the determination of the ultimate authority that the public welfare will be better served by inflicting less than what the judgment fixed." President Calvin Coolidge, in an unadjudicated case, pardoned a prisoner named Craig, and when he refused the pardon, ordered him removed from the prison and "the doors locked behind him."

A pardon can also be granted to a class of people, such as those involved in the Whiskey Rebellion. In U.S. v Klein (80 US 128), the Supreme Court upheld such blanket or group pardons. President James Carter pardoned all Vietnam draft dodgers.

Pardons can take place before or after a criminal proceeding. President Gerald Ford, for example, pardoned Richard Nixon before Nixon was ever charged with, let alone convicted, of any crime. Such pardons, however, are rare, and general procedures dictate that at least five years of a sentence should be served before a pardon is considered. In the Constitutional Convention of 1787, this issue was brought up and debated quickly, with no restriction on when a pardon might be granted, suggested by James Wilson as a way of obtaining the testimony of accomplices.

There are, however, things that a pardon cannot cover. The first and most obvious is impeachment, since it is specifically excepted in the Constitution. Civil liability cannot be excused - a harm against another can still be considered a harm even if there is no longer any criminal liability. Contempts of court cannot be pardoned, as they are offenses against the dignity of the court, and not necessarily offenses against the law. In the Constitutional Convention, a proposal to except treason was popular, but was defeated when the talk turned to granting the Senate only the power to pardon treason.

There are several reasons for a President to issue a pardon, and they come from all sides of the political world. The pardons of President William Clinton can illustrate some of the various reasons. Clinton pardoned his brother, Roger, for obvious familial reasons. He pardoned a pair of Hasidic Jews convicted of defrauding the government, restoring their civil rights but leaving monetary penalties intact. In a controversial move, he pardoned fugitive financier Marc Rich, after application for clemency, in part, from the state of Israel, which had benefited from Rich's philanthropic gestures. President Ford pardoned President Nixon of any wrong-doing in order to put a close to the Nixon era for good. President James Madison pardoned army deserters in an attempt to refill the military's ranks for the War of 1812. President Abraham Lincoln pardoned all Civil War deserters on the condition that they return to their units to fight. Carter pardoned the Vietnam War draft dodgers to help in the long healing process the nation endured after that war.

Finally, there is no review of pardons. This issue, too, was brought up in the Constitutional Convention, that pardons be granted with the consent of the Senate, but the measure was defeated 8-1. In modern days, there is an office in the Justice Department where pardons are sent, and a Pardons Attorney who reviews and recommends applications. The President may still receive pardons personally, and may grant them at any time. The President need not provide a reason for a pardon, and the courts and the Congress have no legal authority to approve, disapprove, reject, or accept a pardon. Currently, the only way to change the pardon power is by constitutional amendment, though history has shown that the scope of the power can be modified by the courts (as in the acceptance doctrine).

 

[smurphy]

A on liberal half truths
"tell em only the part they wany to hear"

F on attempt to compare what will probably lowest total of pardons by 8 year pres--to one who has to pardon family members on drug charges and most wanted for cash.

.

What the hell are u even talking about? Liberals aren't even touching this item. It's almost entirely CONSERVATIVES that have taken on this border agent issue.

Where was I even beginning to compare anything to Clinton? This topic is BUSH, his pardons, and the travesty of justice regarding the 2 border patrol agents.

You are so addicted to sucking up to Bush, you can't even recognize a situation where he's gone against decent conservative causes. This has NOTHING to do with liberals or Clinton.

But go ahead and spin away, I guess.

 

[Tenzing]

Predictions:

Dogs That Bark will
1.tell you that you are an embarrassment for not providing written documetation
2. He will do a search that includes every word in your post and is therefor to large to generate any hits. He will make a point to show everyone that you are obviously making this p because his search resulted in "zilch"
3. When you provide the source, he will ignore it and/or discredit it

Tenzing will
1. go on a rant about why Liberals are anti-American and hate our freedom
2. use new words from his "Improve Your Vocabulary One Day at a Time" calendar
3. trash you for not providing a source
4. deny the fact that you answered the request for a resource
5. ignore the fact that you asked for sources to back up his rant

This guy is hi lar i us.

The way it works is if you say "x is a version of y,"
and then don't provide A SINGLE PIECE OF BACKUP INFO, IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A JERK.
Don't blame me that you go on and on, making a joke of yourself, and yet I refuse to drop my beautiful self to your low level.

BTW, you ain't a good prognosticator, since I ain't done none of what you says I would.


------------------

He hates himself, recognizes that everyone hates him, and then does nothing about his image.

Listen pal, when all you do, day in and day out, is use personal attacks, people laugh at you.

I laugh at you.

A lot.

Have a nice day.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Fair point Smurph--thats why I used the bold print as rebuttal.

 

[kosar]

The way it works is if you say "x is a version of y,"
and then don't provide A SINGLE PIECE OF BACKUP INFO, IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A JERK.

He said he heard it on the radio.

He found and posted the link after being badgered by you and Wayne.

Not sure exactly what more you want.

 

[AR182]

thanks dtb..apprweciate it.

i still don't like that the pres. pardons criminals.if the pres. wants to do something for humanity maybe he should donate his money to charity instead.