I noticed something that has always perplexed me while watching Mickelson fold on the back nine yet again. No, I wasnt perplexed about Mickelson folding. I expect that like I expect the sun to rise every day. They showed one of his many misses from 3 feet and the camera shot is ground level right behind the putter. The ball rims the cup, starts (or at least visually "appears") to drop into the cup, then is propelled back up out of the cup. What the hell is forcing the ball back up once it starts down???? I must have been absent the day they covered this in physics class.
Can someone please explain the physics of putting to me?
- Thread starter KotysDad
- Start date
Here's my take:
The ball will begin to drop when its center is inside the edge of the cup.
If it gets halfway down, it will stay.
If not, however, its inertia can cause it to roll back up and out.
The ball will begin to drop when its center is inside the edge of the cup.
If it gets halfway down, it will stay.
If not, however, its inertia can cause it to roll back up and out.
I must admit that my knowledge of golf swing physics is FAR superior to my knowledge of golf ball physics, but I will try not to mangle this too badly.
Basically, it's the action-reaction force pair of centripetal force v. centrifugal force. According to Newton's first law of motion, a moving body travels along a straight path with constant speed unless it is acted by an outside force. On a green, the outside force is the grain of the green, indentations in the green, wind, and finally, the cup. What makes the ball drop in the cup? Gravity. The ball only does not go in the cup when the velocity of the ball is greater than the gravitational pull on the ball. Which is why you can hit a ball too hard that it passes over the opening.
Now, when one lips a putt, it's the centripetal force being greater than the gravitational force of the bottom of the cup. Obviously, if a majority of the ball doesn't go in the hole, the gravitation pull is not sufficient to pull the ball into the hole. But the question about a ball dipping in the hole and coming back out is centripetal force which I believe is calculated at Fc=(rmv)2/(mr3)=L2/(mr3) with numbers being squares and cubes, of course.
Based on Newton's 3rd law, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Centrifugal force is the natural reaction to centripetal force, but it does not act on a moving body, only the centripetal force acts on a moving body, but rather on the source of the centripetal force. You can see this balance in roller coasters, planets in their orbit, electrons around atoms.
Think of it this way. You have a bucket full of water and a handle on it. If you pick it up by the handle you can spin it around so fast that the water doesn't come out even when the bucket is upside down. The gravitational force is less than the velocity pull of the water. If you slow down, the gravitational pull is superior and the water will come out. The golf ball is the same way with an opposite result. If the velocity of its radius, or its force, is greater than the gravitational pull of the bottom of the cup, the ball will come out. The centrifugal force, or the center fleeing, reaction force, will not allow the ball to drop. Now this is based on velocity. The less velocity, the less force, the greater chance the gravity has to pull it in as seen with the bucket of water.
I was out of the country and did not see good ol Phil choke another one, but I have seen him lip a million puts. He strikes his short putts extremely solidly. The school of thought behind this is that a well struck putt will have a tighter spin and higher velocity, negating any imperfections the green may have -- basically trying to take out the outside forces Newton speaks of. When put in the center of the cup, this works perfectly. However, Phil has a tendency to push many putts, which creates a problem. Now, a putt that would go in with less speed has too much speed to go in.
Any questions? The quiz will be tomorrow...
[This message has been edited by Bonovox (edited 05-21-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Bonovox (edited 05-21-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Bonovox (edited 05-21-2001).]
Basically, it's the action-reaction force pair of centripetal force v. centrifugal force. According to Newton's first law of motion, a moving body travels along a straight path with constant speed unless it is acted by an outside force. On a green, the outside force is the grain of the green, indentations in the green, wind, and finally, the cup. What makes the ball drop in the cup? Gravity. The ball only does not go in the cup when the velocity of the ball is greater than the gravitational pull on the ball. Which is why you can hit a ball too hard that it passes over the opening.
Now, when one lips a putt, it's the centripetal force being greater than the gravitational force of the bottom of the cup. Obviously, if a majority of the ball doesn't go in the hole, the gravitation pull is not sufficient to pull the ball into the hole. But the question about a ball dipping in the hole and coming back out is centripetal force which I believe is calculated at Fc=(rmv)2/(mr3)=L2/(mr3) with numbers being squares and cubes, of course.
Based on Newton's 3rd law, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Centrifugal force is the natural reaction to centripetal force, but it does not act on a moving body, only the centripetal force acts on a moving body, but rather on the source of the centripetal force. You can see this balance in roller coasters, planets in their orbit, electrons around atoms.
Think of it this way. You have a bucket full of water and a handle on it. If you pick it up by the handle you can spin it around so fast that the water doesn't come out even when the bucket is upside down. The gravitational force is less than the velocity pull of the water. If you slow down, the gravitational pull is superior and the water will come out. The golf ball is the same way with an opposite result. If the velocity of its radius, or its force, is greater than the gravitational pull of the bottom of the cup, the ball will come out. The centrifugal force, or the center fleeing, reaction force, will not allow the ball to drop. Now this is based on velocity. The less velocity, the less force, the greater chance the gravity has to pull it in as seen with the bucket of water.
I was out of the country and did not see good ol Phil choke another one, but I have seen him lip a million puts. He strikes his short putts extremely solidly. The school of thought behind this is that a well struck putt will have a tighter spin and higher velocity, negating any imperfections the green may have -- basically trying to take out the outside forces Newton speaks of. When put in the center of the cup, this works perfectly. However, Phil has a tendency to push many putts, which creates a problem. Now, a putt that would go in with less speed has too much speed to go in.
Any questions? The quiz will be tomorrow...
[This message has been edited by Bonovox (edited 05-21-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Bonovox (edited 05-21-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Bonovox (edited 05-21-2001).]
Bonovox,
Thanks for the explanation. Man, you really shook off some cobweds there. I love math and the math behind the physics, but the general ideas sometimes get lost in the shuffle.
Thanks again. It does make more sense now.
I liked the other answers too by the way
Thanks for the explanation. Man, you really shook off some cobweds there. I love math and the math behind the physics, but the general ideas sometimes get lost in the shuffle.
I liked the other answers too by the way
95% of all putts that are short, don't go in - quoted from HUBERT GREEN.
The only putts that lip out are the ones that really, REALLY count - that's quoted from me. If a putt doesn't mean anything, it will seek the dead center of the cup every time.
Skinar
The only putts that lip out are the ones that really, REALLY count - that's quoted from me. If a putt doesn't mean anything, it will seek the dead center of the cup every time.
Skinar
After that Lakers/San Antonio series, I thought for sure someone would post a topic similar to yours....
"Could someone please explain the physics of "putting it to me?"
"Could someone please explain the physics of "putting it to me?"
