can you make a living off gambling?

pepin46

Registered User
Forum Member
Oct 6, 2000
525
0
0
miami, fl.
this was touched upon by kc on a previous post and it left me thinking, so here i go to set this off:

while i have no doubt that good bookies, writers and intermediaries in general do, can a mere mortal depend on 50-80-100 thou a year to provide for living expenses with no other source of income while betting on sporting events?

folks, i seriously doubt it. while making some income off gambling is not out of the question for a small percentage of gamblers, the daily grind and pressure of this being your sole support seems like more than a human being can handle.

the subject of percentage return on an average over an extended period of time, was briefly touched on a few months ago, and from what i can recall, that percentage was awful small, meaning you would require not only the discipline of strict money management and total absorbtion into the gambling world (some say about 80 hours or more a week), but a huge, and i mean, huge bankroll to yield the kind of return you aim for.

just off the top of my head, i would suggest that you must stake upwards of 20thou a day in order to get anywhere near the numbers mentioned above. how many of us can go through a dry spell or a bad state of mind, or how many times that daily sum is it needed to see you through while you re-gain your bearings? what would a bad month or year be, in terms of money?

while i still intend to get to vegas in the near future and get more involved with sports gambling, i will look at it as recreational, while motivated by profit, of course.

now, what is your perspective on this subject?


pep
 

MadJack

Administrator
Staff member
Forum Admin
Super Moderators
Channel Owner
Jul 13, 1999
104,470
1,187
113
69
home
i seriously think i could pull it off IF..

-I was free and clear of all personal overhead (house, cars, etc, etc)

-i had about a 400K bankroll

- i took sports betting more seriously and used better judgement in making my plays. you know....not betting the extra 5-10 games a week just for the action.

BUT...

i'm married and NO WAY would the wife go for it.

NO WAY would i risk my nest egg for a 'gambling for a living' dream.

i'd be skeptical about the safety of my money when betting 10K to 20K per game. no way am i sending 200K offshore. i don't care what kind of reputation they have and you can't get down for those amounts in vegas.

you'd have to worry about getting cut off if you were consistantly winning.

other than nolan i don't think i've ever met a 'happy' person that gambles for a living (poker players especially).

no thanks. this will always be an entertaining hobby for me.
 

RAYMOND

Registered
Forum Member
Jul 31, 2000
45,254
526
113
usa
I MADE A GOOD LIVEING OFF OF GAMBLE.
BUT I DO HAVE MY OWN BUSSINESS TOO.
BUT YOU SHOULD ALWAY HAVE A BACK UP INCOME
NEITHER WAY. GAMBLE THERE IS ALWAY THAT RISK.
 

katts

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 12, 2000
417
0
0
49
Quebec PQ, Canada
I've been asking the question to myself several times and every time I come up with the conclusion that if you wanna make a living off gambling, you need:

A) to be pretty dam good
B) to have a $100,000 bankroll, MINIMUM


Problem is, if few have A and few have B, you can imagine what is the low % of people having both. But you have some..
 

jmizeus

Registered User
Forum Member
Dec 15, 2000
7,264
2
0
western,ny
same here its not a job its an adventure
biggrin.gif


i alway's thought i could do it,but my problem was alway's being very strict. there is alway's that one big game out there if we can only wait on it then pull the trigger. but if i had that kinda bank roll to start off i would love to try it.would probably bet smaller this way i would study my losses more and try out different methods.
you have to take your lay-offs.my old book use to twell me to bet more when your hot and when you are cold to bet smaller. once in awhile i will do that and it does work.as far as my wife--she hates gambling. bankrolli use is from what i've earned over the years,this way there is no heartache.my old book alway's told me the "gambler is the loser" i never wanted to listen to that. i think i've proved over the years that you can make money as long as manage it right. he tell's me i'm about the only person he has ever seen make a profit from gambling year in and year out since i've known him.no i do not use him, this is the (famous) guy that gives me my tip play's.
 

MadJack

Administrator
Staff member
Forum Admin
Super Moderators
Channel Owner
Jul 13, 1999
104,470
1,187
113
69
home
oops. IE does this for a living and is happy. sorry IE
smile.gif


that makes 2 i know
biggrin.gif
 

yyz

Under .500
Forum Member
Mar 16, 2000
41,333
1,305
113
On the course!
I should think you would be working 100 hours per week to pull this off.

But the big question is, what constitutes a "living"?

I could "live" off of $20,000 a year, I suppose. But, I would want to live in comfort, so that total would need to be higher.

Also, I hear people saying you need $100,000 to start? That seems ridiculous! On another note, people say you need to wager 10-20 grand a day? That would be 10-20% of your bankroll if you had that $100,000.....a little far-fetched.

Make a living at this? I doubt most of us have that discipline. But, I guess if you take home $500 a week at the real job, you should be happy making $500 a week at wagering. Can you do that? I know I can't!

I know I am getting paid every other week right now! And, I know how much I am getting paid!

I could not take that chance, nor am I anywhere near good enough to even entertain the thought.
 

pepin46

Registered User
Forum Member
Oct 6, 2000
525
0
0
miami, fl.
yyz

100thou? i don't think you can get very far with that, not in the sense of making a living. when i say 10-20 a day, i figure you are not on it 365 days a year, and that you can't keep up a steady win percentage all the time.

you need to just about double your target win to make up for the losing or weak years (or periods of time). plus, what's the sense of all this if you can't take a 2-3 month's vacation, like off your weakest sport?

jack

i don't know too much about i.e., but i wonder if nolan is really happy. i would think by now he would be a bit worn out, what with all the travel, making dates and cities. it sounds like fun for a while, but seems like it would get to you after a while.

i know he enjoys the card scene and his writing. it is that obligation, if you will, of having to be all over all the time.

maybe nolan would like to jump in an share his feelings on it.

pep
 

Never Caught Up

Registered User
Forum Member
Apr 17, 2001
1,733
0
0
73
Reading IE's comments made me realize I had been much too open in my post even if we do use aliases. Thanks IE for bringing me back to reality . . . and that is why I have deleted the post I had put here earlier.

I look forward to seeing many of you in Vegas at the MJ Super Bowl Party. Sharing war stories there will be much more appropriate than on the World Wide Web.

NCU

[This message has been edited by Never Caught Up (edited 07-23-2001).]
 

beantownjim

Registered
Forum Member
Jun 29, 2001
3,384
77
0
BOSTON
ive been betting over 20 years not big just what i have extra.i really think i could make a living if nick douglas would post his baseball picks i could do very well going the other way.come on nick start posting.jack im just having fun could you please give me an update on my strikes.i think i have five left im under a lot of pressure everytime i post.
 

katts

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 12, 2000
417
0
0
49
Quebec PQ, Canada
yyz:

Also, I hear people saying you need $100,000 to start? That seems ridiculous!

"Seems"? Please explain. If you're able to get a 105% return (than means ~55% at odds -110), and if you bet an average of 2-3 plays a day (ranged from 1% to a big maximum of 4% of the remaining bankroll), it really seems to be the right amount to start with as a "pro" assuming you use a proper money management system and want a minimum of security. I have millions of simulated scenarios to back this. However whatever the amount you start with and no matter how disciplined you are and how good you are, the risk is always there. You MUST keep that in mind.

On another note, people say you need to wager 10-20 grand a day? That would be 10-20% of your bankroll if you had that $100,000.....a little far-fetched.

I don't think you need to bet that much every day, but if you have 5 good plays in one day, it's a possibility and I don't see any problem with it. Note that it's 10K a day, not 10K a play.
 

yyz

Under .500
Forum Member
Mar 16, 2000
41,333
1,305
113
On the course!
I still believe that anyone would be looking at ruin before reward in this venture.

I think most of you picture a gambler like you would see in the movies: Humping 3 supermodels at night, sleeping til game time, calling in a two-team parlay for 50 dimes, and hitting the golf course!

I would think a pro gambler's life would be as trying as hell!

I'll stick to my mediocre handicapping, and $25 bets, thank you.
 

djv

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 4, 2000
13,817
17
0
If you have enough of a bank to start with. Willing to work as hard maybe harder then what you do now. Yes. But you can't start with 100 bucks. Unless your dam blessed and lucky.
 

Nolan Dalla

Registered User
Forum Member
Sep 7, 2000
1,201
2
0
Washington, DC/Las Vegas, NV
Interesting topic.

I sincerely believe with all my heart that gambling works best as a "part-time" job -- for supplemental income. In fact, it's a noble virtue -- certainly wiser than golf, tennis, or other recreational activies which cost money but have no possibility of generating income (Don't get me wrong, I love golf, I'm just saying that paying $4,000 in clubhouse dues and greens fees is looked upon as "normal" while sports investing is still an "outlaw" activity -- the hypocracy!). People out there watching sporting events and not having money on the outcome (non-gamblers) are wasting their lives away, in my view. Spend 20 hours a week in front of the TV with no money on the games? WHAT'S THE POINT??? Why not take that knowledge and experience, work a bit and make a few extra hundred a month? That's my belief. WHY MORE PEOPLE DO NOT GAMBLE is a complete mystery to me. It's baffling!

Okay, I got that off my chest, now to your questions.
smile.gif


I cannot tell you the vast degree of difference between HAVING A JOB and gambling on the side, versus having ZERO income and having to rely on ALL of your income from gambling.

It's like the difference between playing slow-pitch softball versus the major leagues.

Since my gambling activities date back to 1985, nine of those sixteen years I had a job. Having a job meant I NEVER had to worry about a cold streak, because if I went bankrupt (yes, folks that happened a few times back in the 80s), I could just wait for another paycheck to come in and be back in action. But if you go bankrupt (or hit a horrible steak) and you have no other income, you are either in the flophouse, or forced to pull out the Want Ads. Horror of horrors! A job! Eeeeeek!

The trouble with having a job for me was that I tended not to take gambling as seriously. Since there was not as much pressure to perform, I was lax in my research and played looser with my money. I bet for action, instead of income. I would shoot craps and do all kinds of stupid things (remind me to tell the story of how I got buried $35K in casino credit lines one time -- that NEVER would have happened if I was a full-time gambler). When I have a fixed income, I have to do my homework. No work. No eat. And, I like to eat. ANd, I like to play.

I will share with you this -- that my various writing assignments bring me about $2000 income a month -- which is my monthly nut (no frills -- just pays the bills). I need another $20-25K a year to survive -- which comes all comes from gambling (which means I need to produce about $2K on average). I have found that having about 50 percent of my income from gambling is a nice compromise (for me). The alternative was just too much pressure -- especially while married (single, it was much easier). Of course, everyone is different -- some people need $80K a year to live on. Others need $20K and they are happy as clams. I guess I fit somewhere in the middle.

Pepin brings up several good points about gambling's downsides. The wonderful thing for me about having both POKER and SPORTS is that if I feel a burnout on opne of them coming, I just shift to the other. I also find this tend to "energize" me and I approach each with a new found enthusiasm when I make the transition. When I was getting crushed in the NBA for one month this season, when I lost like 24 of 28 and that cost me about a quarter of my bankroll, I simply said STOP! I took a month off, went to LV and CA and played poker for three weeks -- 70 hours a week. Came back with the money. By that time, I was tired of poker and ready to take on sports again. NHL playoffs and baseball started. Perfect timing. See what I'm getting at?

My point is -- since EVERYTHING is monotonous after awhile, I love having CHOICES. Putting 80 hours a week one week, then taking the next week off, or playing less games -- or doing different sports, or playing poker, or going to Atlantic City, or Califonria, or Las Vegas. Or going offshore, Or betting futbol. I mean, CHOICES are the agent which maintains equilibrium.

So far as happiness -- a lot of it has to do with who you are and what you are comfortble with. I tend to have a very naturalistic outlook about life and could not care less about material things. Car is paid for (a 1995 van). No debts. Nothing really fancy in life, but we eat like kings and drink a bottle of good win every day. Go to Europe once a year. Spend three months on the road per year. I had a new Mercedes a few years ago -- but it was a headache (insurance, tax, and payments were like $700 a month). So, I got rid of it, and bought a used van with cash. Why drive a Mercedes, when I can drive a 5 year old car with no overhead? If I can travel around, go to Europe once a year, and spend time doing WHAT I want WHEN I want, that's a lot more important to me than brown-nosing some bosses azs every Monday morning. If I had to do that, I'd kill myself. I mean, I'd just take a knife and cut my throat. Working for a prick? Not for me. I'm going to do what I want. That's just the way I am. Some people are different, of course.

Do I get angry and frustrated with gambling? You bet! Do I get fed up with it? Yes, I do. But tell me a job where you don't have some kind of burnout fator? Doctors, lawyers -- they all have days when they just want to say "screw it!" Hell, I even heard the actress Julia Roberts talking about how "tough" acting is on the James Lipton progrma the other night. Makes $12 milion and bitches about working. Incredible. The key to success and happiness is having CHOICES in life. If you are boxed in, you suffocate. At least I do. DIVERSITY, Being able to shift gears and move when you have to.

One final word of caution: I have been married ten years to the same wonderful woman (she has worked at various times, but stayed off work the last three years). No children (by choice -- it's bad EV). Children would add a great amount of pressure to anyone that does this for a living, as I would say to gamble full-time professionally with young children would almost be impossible (it can be done, but I can count on one hand how many people are in that situation -- and they are ALL poker players). Another point -- It is NOT a profession I recommend, full time I mean. The downside is having no health coverage, no retirement benefits. I get no paid actions or holidays. And I have to write the IRS a big fact check every year.

Gambling for a livng CAN be done. But the price you pay is sometimes high. Thus I think compromise is best. What we poker players call "semi-pros are in the best situation of all. They have jobs, and then they supplement their incomes with something they enjoy. The same can be done with sports, as well.

As far as happiness, I appeciate Jack's nice words. I'm happy most of the time, but there's nothing more difficult to me than going 0-5 one night and having to turn on the computer and start doing 6 hours of homework for the next day's games. It's very difficult to stay motivated. THAT"S why most poeople don't make it in this business.

NOLAN DALLA


[This message has been edited by Nolan Dalla (edited 07-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Nolan Dalla (edited 07-22-2001).]
 

Never Caught Up

Registered User
Forum Member
Apr 17, 2001
1,733
0
0
73
Nolan,

Great thoughts you share with us.

I think it is interesting that you and I both try to make a realistic goal of $2,000 a month. In the past when I have set my goal higher than that I have had some really bad outcomes. I am sure you can relate.

It seems like it is all about leverage of BR . . . when I over leverage my bankroll it starts to rapidly dissappear . . . and about staying inside the individual gambler's comfort zone. I know there are players out there making several hundred thousand a year, but for me to try to do that would be pure disasture.

There is an old saying "A jealous man can't work and a scared man can't gamble."

I know you and I have discussed a few other things in the past and your wisdom never ceases to amaze me. Perhaps graduating from the University of Hard Knocks has given us both a little insight we would never have had in our youth.
 

Nolan Dalla

Registered User
Forum Member
Sep 7, 2000
1,201
2
0
Washington, DC/Las Vegas, NV
NeverCaughtUp:

I must say that you are most kind with your thoughts and comments. But one thing I want to point out is -- we are all a reflection of who we associate with and the people we have come into contact with over the years. I strongly believe that there is something to be learned from everyone. That's not BS, that's fact. I can't tell you how many conversations I've had about the most obscure topics in bars, at poker tables, and inside sports books with other people. A few weeks ago, I was in a bar and one guy was talking my ear off for two hours about a scandal with the Belgian military and a contract they had buying aircraft from Italy. What did I care about the Belgian military? But I listened, and his story was interesting. Here I was in a position to hear something very few people ever would have the chance of hearing (and some would probably pay information for), all for FREE! My God, there's so many interesting things and people out there, it's just mind-boggling to me that ANYONE can be bored in life. And that's why what I write or say is really nothing special, but merely a reflection of the wonderful associations with people I've had over the years. Anyone can do it.

One a different level, the same goes for this forum. I would say that (my unofficial estimate) is that probably less than a dozen people here make 100 percent of their income from gambling. But I would say that several hundred people here COULD do it, and make a respectable income, if they applied themselves (MadJack is a perfect example -- I'll use him because that should be obvious to everyone). But Jack and others do fine in life doing this for supplemental income, so why mess with success? Same goes for the other highly intelligent people here who are successful in their own professions. if they took that talent and applied it to gambling -- they would probably do reasonably well (there would be a certain casualty rate -- but many would also succeed). I would say that there are 500-600 people here who make money on a consistent basis from sports gambling. That might be $100 or month, or $5,000 a month. But the amount of moeny one earns has no correlation to knowledge. A $5 bettor with good info is a lot more important to this forum than some clown that bets $10,000 a game and never contributes a damn thing. So, I do want to drive the point home that this forum is all about LEARNING and SHARING. Sure, it sounds like some Utopian dream-talk, but it's absolutely vital that we try out best to share good information and continue to learn. When we stop learning, death is near.

Nolan Dalla
 

buddy

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 21, 2000
10,897
85
0
Pittsburgh, Pa.
Although I love to wager, I do not know enough about handicapping to even think about making any serious money.

Last year, I cleared $900 for ncaafb/NFL and I was happier than the proverbial pig.

I can tell you this, without the collective effort of this forum, newbies and veterans, I would not have won on my own.

I like trying to handicap the public, I have some trends that I favor, I have my own ncaafb/NFL database (of sorts),I pay attention to some handicappers more than others, and, like anyone else, I enjoy winning.

But if was $100 or $10,000 for the season, it would not change my cautious attitude toward sportswagering.

I am not that good and I don't ever want to get to a point that I think I know as much as the House.

My best/worst bet will always be nothing more than a hunch.
 
I

Investment Executive

Guest
enjoy what your doing, have fun w/ it and don't overdue it....thats all i can say.

you need total commitment....i would venture that 99% of the people on the internet that i have witnessed over the last 4.5 years still don't know "how to lose"...that would be the first battle.

good luck

IE

[This message has been edited by Investment Executive (edited 07-23-2001).]
 

redsfann

ale connoisseur
Forum Member
Aug 3, 1999
9,005
215
63
60
Somewhere in Corn Country
Nolan--

Thanks a lot for sharing a bit of yourself with those of us here at the forum who have not had the opportunity to meet you yet.
The part about driving a 1995 van and not being materialistic hits home hard with me. My wife and I are childless by choice, we live in a 1000 square foot house(could live in one 5 times as big if we wanted to) and I drive a 1994 mazda 626 with 150,000 miles on it.. My point being that I would rather visit Europe and other places in the world--(x-mas 2004, Anders!), save for a comfortable retirement and set aside some money for gambling rather than try and impress someone with a fancy car or huge house.
So, the topic asks do you gamble for fun or profit? In my case, I gamble to have fun, and if I end up ahead, thats great, too.
I look at the money I set aside as an entertainment expense. I set aside a certain amount of money to gamble with, and if it lasts me all of baseball or football season, great. If it doesn't, thats OK, too.


[This message has been edited by redsfann (edited 07-22-2001).]
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top