Charlie Weis: Real or Hype?

[Coug LJ]

I am wondering what people think will happen now that Charlie Weis is the new Notre Dame coach. Notre Dame has not won a bowl game in something like twenty years and the same obstacles are there that hampered other coaches - a killer schedule and restrictions on recruiting.

It seems like whenever Notre Dame gets a new coach the hype is overboard, but Charlie Weis is being coroneted even before he has coached his first college football game.

Is Charlie Weis the real deal or is more about selling commercials on NBC?

 

[DIRTY Diapers]

Well he is doing a tremendous job recruiting. Notre Dame already has 9 verbals for the class of 2006. Two of the recruits are top 50 on Rivals.

There is no denying he is one of the sharpest X/O guys in the business. Does he have what it takes to actually run a team? We shall see...

 

[Coug LJ]

When Bob Davie and Tyrone Willingham came on board, there was a lot of hype before the fall. It seems be holding true with Weis, as well. As you say, we shall see.

The flip side of making a coach into "The Savior" is what happens after a 6-5 season? That could certainly happen to Notre Dame this year. With all the Tyrone Willingham bashing and trumpeting of Weis, things could get ugly.

If Tyrone Willingham was such a terrible coach and Charlie Weis ends up with the same record, ...it could be very interesting.

One thing I will give Notre Dame football, there is always plenty of drama. And while Charlie Weis is undoubtedly a sharp guy, schedule and players have more of an influence on wins and losses.

What are the expectations of Notre Dame fans?

 

[Scott4USC]

Weis has talent at ND but he doesn't have speed. He needs to improve team speed at ND. As DIRTY Diapers said, he looks to be a solid recruiter. Although ND easily should have top 10 recruiting classes every year.

What I like about Weis is he said he will run his offense based on the what the defense gives him. You see too many CFB coaches not adjust and run there gameplan. He did it at NE and I think his offenses will be productive @ND.

He also seems to be very confident and his teams should play with a lot of confidence.

 

[AU2001]

He is the best guy for that job. I wish him well. He does need speed and a QB.

 

[DIRTY Diapers]

There are a lot of misconceptions about the speed factor with ND.

A. Wooden CB 4.3 (Soph) - Probably the most electryfing player
T. Lambert CB 4.3 (Soph) Big East indoor 60 meter sprint champion
T. Zibakowski FS (RS Soph) 4.4 10.4 100 meters Illinois runner-up at state
F. Parrish 4.4

These corners are all highly touted coming out of high school, and will be better than the horrible core we had last year. Experience will be the issue with Lambert and Wooden.

M. Stovall WR 6 feet 5 inches 4.5 On ND's track team (1st team WR USA today out of high school)

M. Shelton (White lightning) 4.3 On ND 60 meters track team

J. Hoskins RB 4.4 will get more playing time this year...

R. Mcknight 4.4

They have speed... Willingham never played the best players. This is why most ND fans had major concerns with his decision making. Plus, his in-game adjustments were pathetic.

A. Wooden will probably play both ways this year, and Hoskins will see more of a pivotal role next year. They are probably the biggest game breakers for the Irish.

 

[Coug LJ]

It seems that much of the basis for saying Notre Dame will be much improved is that Charlie Weis will be a big upgrade from Tyrone Willingham and that will translate into more victories. Like I posted, I can't wait to see what happens if that theory falls on it's face.

Lou Holtz bitched about Notre Dame's strict recruiting stance almost twenty years ago and Paul Horning reitered this point recently. Scott, no offense to USC, but you guys let in guys that haven't been getting into Notre Dame. Have the standards at Notre Dame changed?

Probably the biggest factor is the schedule. It's brutal. I wonder if it has something to do with that big, juicy television contract with NBC. You can't play Middle Tennessee on NBC. And it doesn't get any easier in years to come.

Right now everything is wonderful - does anyone remember Tyrone Willingham's first year? You would have thought the guy walked on water. Nobody was talking about what an idiot coach he was back then. To the contrary, Irish fans were claiming he was one of the very best coaches in the country.

While speed is important, I don't remember Notre Dame winning with speed. It was more power and strength. That seems to be every bit as much a concern as speed at the moment.

Of course, when you consider that Tyrone Willingham was terrible with his in-game adjustments, didn't play the right players, was not a good game-day coach and was a bad recruiter, Notre Dame should run the table and be National Champions this year.

Sitting on the sidelines, it lines up as one great soap opera.

 

[DIRTY Diapers]

Cool LJ,

On the contrary when Ty took over as head coach and got off to that wonderful start. It was the media who over hyped Willingham. Most of the Irish fans realized a lot of things went our way that year. We were like +30 on turnovers that year and got very lucky against a few teams.

Most Irish fans were complaining about some of the coaching decisions that year despite the record. I would say 90% of the Irish fans RESPECT Ty for his demeanor and character. However, about 80% wanted to see him go.

ND did win with power and strength... I made the point that Willingham didn?t play some of the highly touted blue chip athletes that have game busting ability. Guys like Lambert, Wooden, Parrish, Hoskins, etc. etc. Most of these guys were young but have great ability.

Nobody thinks were going to RUN the table as you suggests. All were looking for is 7-4 or 8-3 record with a bowl win. NO Blowouts, NO Blowouts at home. It wasn?t long ago when ND never got smoked in South Bend, but this happened way too much with Willingham.

 

[Coug LJ]

D.D., you seem like a very reasonable Notre Dame fan. If you are looking for 7-4, 8-3 record, what are the Irish fanatics expecting?

That's the problem. 8-3 - heck, 7-4, with your schedule, is going to be a helluva accomplishment. I don't see it happening. And if you guys do finish 6-5, or god forbid, 5-6, what are the faithful going to do?

You make a good point about the media. The problem is NBC is leading the way. The way they lather up the bullshit is ridiculous and that has to be with Notre Dame's o.k. Have you guys sold your soul for forty pieces of silver?

Saying that, Notre Dame has an amazing aura and Weis may be the guy to get you guys back in contention. I may be bashing Notre Dame, but I love the drama. This will be a big story all season. Living in Seattle, the game against the Huskies will be huge out here.

 

[DIRTY Diapers]

If you think NBC is bad. What do you think about ESPN? They are loaded with bullshit.

Our schedule is always tough - but it is top heavy this year. ND should have no problems finishing 8-3 or at worse (hopefully) 7-4. They have everyone back on offense. Defense is faster and more highly touted. How quickly the defense becomes comfortable is the key to the season.

 

[mcity]

When Bob Davie and Tyrone Willingham came on board, there was a lot of hype before the fall. It seems be holding true with Weis, as well. As you say, we shall see.

The flip side of making a coach into "The Savior" is what happens after a 6-5 season? That could certainly happen to Notre Dame this year. With all the Tyrone Willingham bashing and trumpeting of Weis, things could get ugly.

If Tyrone Willingham was such a terrible coach and Charlie Weis ends up with the same record, ...it could be very interesting.

One thing I will give Notre Dame football, there is always plenty of drama. And while Charlie Weis is undoubtedly a sharp guy, schedule and players have more of an influence on wins and losses.

What are the expectations of Notre Dame fans?

If ND goes 6-5 but ND fans see a team that is showing competetiveness, heart, discipline, imagination on offense, a flying defense, and coaching decisions and stratagies consistent with solid football, there won't be a problem for weis at all. True ND football fans realize that this program has been run into the ground for numerous years and it won't be out of its hole in one season......remember when Holtz took over....his first year ND had a bad record....but they showed signs of promise....they played hard, smart, intense, competitive football and although it didn't reap a lot of "W's" that year, fans knew we had a guy at the helm who was moving it in the right direction.....needless to say, a lot of us feel weis is going to do the same. Also, the schedule is going to be cut back a little in the future....and ND is going to start playing 7 home games every year. There is a new leader at ND as well....father jenkins who took over for monk malloy this past spring...and anybody who followed ND knows that malloy didn't care much for athletics...jenkins does and he was actually the one who pushed hard to get tyrone out in hopes of getting urban meyer in....that fell through but I think weis is an even better fit anyway. ND fans will know very quickly if weis is the right man for the job.....we will be able to see it right away if things have changed at ND or not.....I think they will although like I said, it may not manifest itself in a lot of "W's" this year.....but to see the ship moving ahead instead of just floating adrift will be a great sign.

 

[Scott4USC]

If ND goes 6-5 but ND fans see a team that is showing competetiveness, heart, discipline, imagination on offense, a flying defense, and coaching decisions and stratagies consistent with solid football, there won't be a problem for weis at all. True ND football fans realize that this program has been run into the ground for numerous years and it won't be out of its hole in one season......remember when Holtz took over....his first year ND had a bad record....but they showed signs of promise....they played hard, smart, intense, competitive football and although it didn't reap a lot of "W's" that year, fans knew we had a guy at the helm who was moving it in the right direction.....needless to say, a lot of us feel weis is going to do the same. Also, the schedule is going to be cut back a little in the future....and ND is going to start playing 7 home games every year. There is a new leader at ND as well....father jenkins who took over for monk malloy this past spring...and anybody who followed ND knows that malloy didn't care much for athletics...jenkins does and he was actually the one who pushed hard to get tyrone out in hopes of getting urban meyer in....that fell through but I think weis is an even better fit anyway. ND fans will know very quickly if weis is the right man for the job.....we will be able to see it right away if things have changed at ND or not.....I think they will although like I said, it may not manifest itself in a lot of "W's" this year.....but to see the ship moving ahead instead of just floating adrift will be a great sign.

Great post. This is exactly what you should be looking for. That is what USC fans saw with Pete Carroll in year 1. Team always played hard but didn't know how to win. Went 6-6, losing most of their games by 3pts and OT, but finished year very strong.

I am confident ND will be back with the elite teams of CFB. USC doing it so fast has to give ND the confidence knowing they can have similar success!

 

[Coug LJ]

I was looking at some of the recruits Notre Dame is getting and Weis is doing a very good job on that front. We will see if and when Notre Dame returns as one of the powers in College Football.

It is only natural that Notre Dame engenders animosity with others, considering they have their own separate television contract and special considerations with the BCS. Add that to the clumsy and unprofessional way they handled Tyrone Willingham and there are going to be many people who want to see Notre Dame fail.

For a lot of us, Notre Dame has played a sort of Black Bart of College Football. Behind a facade of Touchdown Jesus, is a football program that is looking for every edge and financial gain, whether or not it is to the good of College Football. The BCS arrangement is a classic example of this - why should Notre Dame have an inherent advantage over other schools for BCS considerations?

For these and other reasons, I have no problem with Notre Dame taking their lumps. I don't hate the Fighting Irish, but I love to see them lose.

 

[hm23]

It's a bit difficult to gauge whether a great coordinator can become a quality head coach. Weis is full of potential though losing Cutcliffe as QB coach is a real drawback, for as disappointing as he was at the helm of Ole Miss, he would've made a difference in Quinn's development this season and there is talent on the offensive side.

I'm with Coug...no sympathy for the Irish in this corner. Willingham is an above-avg. coach, despitehis game day coaching. I thought he got the quick hook. The pretentious facade that ND portrays is almost as laughable as their lofty expectations to be a perennial natl. title contender. :flush:

 

[mcity]

It's a bit difficult to gauge whether a great coordinator can become a quality head coach. Weis is full of potential though losing Cutcliffe as QB coach is a real drawback, for as disappointing as he was at the helm of Ole Miss, he would've made a difference in Quinn's development this season and there is talent on the offensive side.

I'm with Coug...no sympathy for the Irish in this corner. Willingham is an above-avg. coach, despitehis game day coaching. I thought he got the quick hook. The pretentious facade that ND portrays is almost as laughable as their lofty expectations to be a perennial natl. title contender. :flush:

sorry, but tyrone is far from an above avg. coach....he was mediocre at stanford and brought that same vanilla effort with him to ND.....I don't think it is too much to ask that a coach at least put a team on the field that is prepared to play....and a team capable of making in-game adjustments which falls on the coaching staff. If you watched ND at all the last 3 years, you saw a team that many times wasn't ready to play (BYU opener last year for example) and a team led by coaches incapable of making in-game adjustments (ND was pushing USC all over the field the 1st quarter last year...until...until USC made adjustments!! And what did ND do the rest of the game.....nothing.....got shut out!!) ND fans will know very quickly if Weis is the man or just a lot of hype......the signs will be very clear.

 

[hm23]

Fair comment on Willingham. I can see how some may label him as mediocre. There were games his teams were ill prepared and he (and his staff) were poor tactically...the latter was painfully obvious.

But I think his strength is as a teacher and mentor. What he did at Stanford was excellent, there aren't many coaches who could do much better given the constraints.

Look, ND has to figure out if they truly want student-athletes or wanna become a football factory like the one in Ann Arbor.

 

[mcity]

Fair comment on Willingham. I can see how some may label him as mediocre. There were games his teams were ill prepared and he (and his staff) were poor tactically...the latter was painfully obvious.

But I think his strength is as a teacher and mentor. What he did at Stanford was excellent, there aren't many coaches who could do much better given the constraints.

Look, ND has to figure out if they truly want student-athletes or wanna become a football factory like the one in Ann Arbor.

Don't think ND wants to become a FB factory...but they do want to win and win big again....and they can do that without cutting corners on their academics and admissions...
There are enough student/athletes out there who are capable of making the grades at ND and playing exceptional football.............the previous regime(s) didn't want to pound the pavement however....they thought the players would come to them........well big news, ND isn't the ND of old, they aren't just going to come...you have to go out and get on the recruits early (soph., junior year of HS) and get in with them and develop a relationship. This is what Weis has done....he already has 9 verbal commits for next year not to mention he has been out on the road for a month at a time this year visiting recruits personally and getting ND in the mix...something they haven't been in with the top recruits for numerous years. weis has also implemented a junior day on campus....another way to get ND on the minds of the top prospects. Let's not forget, two of Tyrones biggest "L's" didn't come on the field, they came off of it.....he couldn't seal the deal on Lorenzo Booker or Reggie Bush......both of whom had ND in their final 2....both of whom are good students and obviously exceptional FB players.......ND would've loved to have either of them as a "difference maker" and if they would've gotten one or the other, maybe tyrone wouldn't be in the apple state right now.....so to say you can't do both is an excuse that weis isn't going to use.....they are out there and he is working his butt off to get them.