Dan Issel and the Racial Slur

Skinar

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I caught a brief caption on the bottom of CNN recently about Dan Issel directing a racial slur towards a fan. After looking into the story it turns out Issel called a Hispanic appearing man a 'f**king Mexican piece if shit' after the fan had yelled 'You Suck' at Issel.

Issel has been suspended for 4 games costing him over $100K. The fan has been receiving his 15 minutes of fame but I don't think he has been barred from Denver Nuggets games. The Hispanic councils around the country have demanded the resignation or termination of Issel.

I'm confused about this. When did 'Mexican' become a racial slur? Does this mean we can't say 'Canadian' piece of shit? Or 'Ethiopian' piece of shit? 'Russian'? 'British'?

If someone yells at me and tells me I suck, I think I have the right to call them a piece of shit. If I happen to use a nationality in the process, even if I'm wrong about that nationality, I don't consider that a racial slur. Do you suppose this may someday be expanded to include names of continents? Then we couldn't call someone a European piece of shit, or Central American piece of shit. Where does this insanity end?
 

dawgball

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Quit complaining you American piece of shit!
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Juice

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Skinar, you've gotta be kidding me! Of course its wrong to include someone's nationality when trying to insult them. If you include their race, its no longer an isult, its a racial slur.
Is it ok to say "you black piece of sh1t"?
Is it ok to say you "Catholic piece of sh1t"?
Is it ok to say "you Jewish piece of sh1t"?
Is it ok to say "you Muslim piece of sh1t"?
And how did Dan know that the fan was Mexican anyways. Don't you think that was stereotyping on his behalf, or is that ok also?
If someone yells at me and tells me I suck, I think I have the right to call them a piece of shit. If I happen to use a nationality in the process, even if I'm wrong about that nationality, I don't consider that a racial slur.
Again Skinar, you've gotta be kidding me.
By the way, it is wrong to say "you European piece of sh1t", or "you African piece of shi1t" or "you Asian piece of sh1t".
 

Dragon

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Well, not to make jokes about the subject, but to be honest, I could care less if someone called me an Irish piece of sh*t or a mixed piece of sh*t or whatever. Issel should have known better than to tango with a fan. Gotta have thicker skin than that when you are in the sporting/entertainment industry. However, we live in a world where everyone is so politically correct all the time, he could have called the guy a "regular" piece of sh*t and they probably would have flown off the handle anyhow. No point to my comments other than it's just words. If someone said the sky is falling, are you really going to let it bother you that much? Damn, I wish I could cry out every time someone says something offensive to me or I get upset at work. I'd have 200 lawsuits on the table by now and I wouldn't need to work or place bets...well...don't know about the placing bets part!

Can't we all just get along???!?!?!?!
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Juice

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ps
Mexican, Canadian or British are not racial slurs, but when used in certain context (such as the context in which Dan used them) do become racial slurs.
Also, if every fan was banned for telling players or coaches they suck, there would be no one in the arenas or stadiums.
 

Skinar

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Looks like the Candians are well represented here.

Juice, you kind of reiterated a point I'm trying to make. You said if you include their race it becomes a racial slur. I agree. However, Mexican is a nationality in my opinion, not a race. Also, I said in my original post that using a nationality, 'even if I'm wrong about the nationality', is not a reference to race in my opinion.

I just think the politically correct types are trying to crucify everyone who doesn't adhere to their particular definition of 'free speech'.

When did 'Canadian' become a race?
 

Juice

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Let me try to understan this Skinar. If Dan had called the fan a "Hispanic piece of sh1t", that would be wrong (because Hispanic is a race not a nationality). But because he said "Mexican piece of sh1t" evrything is ok.
He obviously meant it as a racial slur and the only reason he said Mexican is because the man was Hispanic looking.

[This message has been edited by Juice (edited 12-14-2001).]
 

Skinar

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Juice - First of all, let me say that I'm not trying to condone what Issel said. He should have kept his mouth shut. My issue is with the people who will try to ruin his career for making a relatively simple mistake. I think that being fined $100K, the fact he has apologized, and the fact that he is supported by his players should be enough for everyone concerned. The fact is, it's not enough for everyone. Some people would like to see him ruined and I don't think that the punishment fits the crime.

How do you KNOW that he 'obviously meant it as a racial slur?' That's one of the problems I have with PC legislation. It works from the assumption that you can read people's minds. I think Issel was pissed. I think right at that moment he wanted a piece of the antagonists ass, and I would put my money on Issel. That doesn't mean Issel is a racist, which is the point I'm trying to make.
 

Juice

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Also, I said in my original post that using a nationality, 'even if I'm wrong about the nationality', is not a reference to race in my opinion.
But it was a reference to a race in Dan Issel's case, Skinar. How did he know that the fan was Mexican, did he see his birth certificate? Of course not. He based it on the man's appearance, in which case it becomes racial.
Why would you include someone's nationality even if you may be wrong about it. You would probably base it on their appearance. Wouldn't that make it racial?
 

Juice

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I do agree with you, Skinar, that Dan's carrer should not be ruined over this and he did appear genuinly sorry at the press conference, but he did make a mistake.
I only dissagreed with the fact that including someone's nationality is not racially motivated.
 

Skinar

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Maybe it's because of the area of the country that I live in, but I've always considered Mexican not to refer to race but people who come from Mexico. In the context used by Issel, it was definitely a perjorative term, but I'm not convinced it was more than that. Since it's real doubtful Issel knows whether the guy is really Mexican or not I suppose your argument gains some weight.

A dark-complected friend of mine, whose family has some Lebanese descendents, was recently called a 'Puerto-Rican looking son-of-a-bitch' by a student on a bus that he was driving. My friend thought it was kinda funny really and although the student was disciplined it was for cursing a bus driver and causing a disruption. Race was never brought up as an issue.
 

yyz

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Who cares? It should be between the two of them, not a bunch of "group leaders" trying to get some press.

1. It was wrong of the fan to spout off.
2. It was wrong for the coach to spout back.
3. It was wrong to use ethnicity. Period.
4. It was wrong for others to get involved.
5. It should be a done deal, with an apology by both parties.
 

Dragon

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yyz, I agree with you 100% on all points. I don't know all of the specifics, but if the media didn't capture what Issel said on camera, I doubt this whole scenario would have escalated to what it is right now. I might be going out on a limb by saying this, but organization and "groups" that do insert themselves into issues like this are usually looking for something to gain. Are they going to suggest this man file a lawsuit against Issel or the Nuggets? I think that would be ridiculous. Bottom line is that both parties were out of order, Issel was punished accordingly and he did apologize. It shouldn't go any further. This is by no means the first incident of this nature or the last. The best policy is to keep your mouth shut and CYA. Nothing good can happen when you shoot your mouth off in front of a camera.
 

Skinar

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Good point Dragon. O'Reilly had the head of the local Hispanic organization from Denver on his show and he (O'Reilly) suggested that the Nuggets take the $100K they fined Issel, pitch in another $100K and give it to the 'Hispanic community'. The organizer said that there had already been talks with the Nuggets in this direction.
 

dr. freeze

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i think the problem lies in anyone who takes offense to the comment...it signals an inferiority complex which is not right in the person who takes offense.....therein lies the problem....for example, the hispanic groups who are taking offense to this comment automatically demonstrate to the rest of the country that they feel they must be inferior because of their race.....this is not a healthy thing for any individual to feel.

If I was a Mexican or Hispanic. I would be pissed because I would be thinking that these people must feel that they are not proud to be Hispanic but rather feel berated by being called Mexican. Instead, they should be proud to be called Mexican.

I think most Mexicans are pretty cool and in fact am about to go to a Mexican restaurant to eat their food. And lots of their women are pretty fine too!!!!
 

hello there

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Probably 10% of the fans are hispanic related so they figure they will lose tons of money if they don't punish Issel for saying that so they did what they did. It's mostly about the dolla dolla bill you all!!
 

Skinar

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The best comment I've heard about it was from a Nuggets fan who said they should all just forget about it for now since he figures Issel will get fired before the end of the season anyway due to the Nuggets poor record.
 

Keyser Soze

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Ya Know..........When I grew up and I was called a fat-ass pumpkin head on the playground, I went and told my teacher. She told me, "Sticks and stones may break your bones, but names will never hurt you." You know, she was right....Maybe if he had just gone over and choked the guy (Sprewell-like), then they just would have made him coach another team....Worry about the friggin' people, whatever race, color or creed( no reference to a fine band), they happen to be, that are raping, robbing and killing. Get over it already. Be concerned about things that actually matter and effect ones lives. If yo don't like what somebody is saying about you, go to the other side of the playground! ANd if that doesn't work, choke him.

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