De La Hoya/Vargas

[fletcher]

De La Hoya/Vargas
Well looks like we are going to have a battle in the desert. With the pretty boy against the street thug with a heart.

I am going to go with Vargas to get the win and probably a ko on saturday night in Las Vegas.

Trying to c&p my write up from some where else but can't seem to get it all on the page so it will be 2 parts.

 

[fletcher]

De La Hoya/Vargas
Well looks like we are going to have a battle in the desert. With the pretty boy against the street thug with a heart.

I am going to go with Vargas to get the win and probably a ko on saturday night in Las Vegas.

A few things that i like are Vargas imo is the hungry fighter who not only want's to beat oscar he want's to hurt him. I think after the weigh in you will see Vargas put on 7-12 pounds more by fight time. I think at this point he has the bigger heart when it comes to the ring , where Oscar has seemed to be side tracked with singing,acting and being a model. He has cut that back some but you have to wonder how crisp he can be? He says he wants it and heart is in it. And has came back to top rank which is a major concern for me wondering if i have a chance to win the fight if it goes the distance with Top rank having some major pull in vegas? He has even been being trained by F.Mayweather Sr. whom is a old school trainer almost like a rocky movie the way he trains his fighters. But it still comes down to does Oscar have the heart and fire still and i don't think he does. Lot of people are talking about Oscar is to fast for Varges but i think it's about the same maybe in Oscar's prime years where he had his heart and soul into boxing but not anymore.

And whats up with the 10 oz pillows thats got to be a Top Rank and Oscar move. Don't know for sure but if Sonny sees this he will know or be able to find out i'm sure. but that shows me someone does-not want to get hurt.

When all is said and done i think Vargas gets a late ko and Oscar will move on again. Just don't like betting against Top Rank in Vegas but you can't stop a ko.

Vergas+215

good luck



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09-11-2002 07:53 AM

 

[TheShrimp]

What an interesting fight.

How much heart does vargas have left after the Tito ass whooping? How much heart does De La Hoya even have left in the fight game?

Neither one has fought much of a man since their losses to Tito/Mosley. I guess that's how they want it, to get back to their winning mindsets. I'm going to call this one a wash mentally.

For Vargas, I like that this fight is at 154. De La Hoya had most of his glory at 147 (including the Mosley fight and Tito fights) and has always seemed like more of a welterweight to me. I think this weight is more natural for Vargas.

For what it's worth, Trinidad picked De La Hoya and he's fought them both. He says the quickness will be a problem for Vargas, but I think that with the bad blood between these guys you're going to see some slugging (not barerra-morales I, but then again, what is?) and I like Vargas in a brawl.

Vargas did knock Tito down where De La Hoya couldn't. But De La Hoya is so sharp, and accurate and well-trained that maybe he'll try to keep it a boxing match instead of a slugfest. Of course that's not always easy to do when the other fellow is being aggressive. I liked Vargas' chances in that Tito fight until Tito caught vargas with the low blow.

So, Fletcher's on Vargas. Trinidad is on De La Hoya. I suppose I'm about 50/50 on this fight, but given that the price is 2:1 on Vargas, that's where I'm putting a few bucks. He might be a slight dog in my mind, but he's not that big of a dog.

Prediction: Vargas by KO.

Also thinking about "pulling a gardenweasel", putting something on Vargas by KO (+300) and something on Oscar by decision +140).

 

[gardenweasel]

i`ll have to disagree

i`ll have to disagree

when they stipulated(oscar`s camp)10 oz gloves it meant to me that oscar is not looking for a punchout....also,and very importantly,they switched from reyes(also known as "razors")to grant gloves...this will lessen the chance of legit cuts....oscar has never been down,much less out and i don`t think vargas can stop him either...i am looking to play both guys going to a decision(oscar+140 and fernando+500).......most of these big time fights with high profile fighters go to decision(notable exceptions are vargas- trinidad,and hopkins-trinidad)...vargas and trinidad were both going for k.o.`s....but,in the trinidad-hopkins fight,hopkins boxed and trinidad stalked......and trinidad made the mistake...this is my worry here...vargas` whiskers are nowhere near as good as oscar`s,nor are his skills...if wilfredo rivera was a better puncher and a little more aggressive,we wouldn`t be here(anybody that thinks rivera is a better puncher than oscar,is dreaming and he had vargas on queer street and ready to go).....what worries me is vargas getting stupid with all this bullshit rage and animosity he carries toward de la hoya...when you go into the ring without your focus and without thinking,you can get into trouble(especially vs world class competition)...vargas needs to rough de la hoya up,but to do it smartly...if he gets goofy, he will end up on his ass....remember the experience factor in big fights:

de la hoya-
trinidad
mosley
quartey
chavez
whitaker
oba carr
miguel angel gonzales
jesse james leija
rafael ruelas
john john molina
wilfredo rivera
jorge paez
genaro hernandez
hector camacho
arturo gatti
javier castillejo

vargas-
trinidad
quartey
winky wright
wilfredo rivera

granted,many of these guys were a little long in the tooth and at lighter weights,but,all very tough experienced hombres who knew all the tricks.


my concerns are-
both fighters focus
the potential size difference(no height or reach difference to speak of)
vargas` stupidity


i will be very surprised if de la hoya gets k.o.`ed....
and remember,after one or 2 rounds,all the b.s should go out the window,and both fighters should concentrate on how to win...


looking forward to more info...g.l. everybody.

 

[badjab]

GW,
I agree with you re: De La Hoya's experience being a big factor in this fight. Vargas may want to make this a street fight, but that is all but impossible against somebody as quick and sharp as De La Hoya. Good point about Vargas' weak chin. I have a feeling that he will taste the canvas in this fight. Not sure if he will be KO'd though.

 

[EricG]

well, hate to disagree with fletcher, but I really like De La Hoya here, sure Vargas is worth a shot at +215 but I really think De La Hoya is back to prime form and think De La Hoya has been focused on this fight and he will keep it to a boxing match and not a brawl which is how he wins rounds but can easily bring the big punch for the K.O.

 

[acehistr8]

Vargas is now +240 at MVP.

Dont follow boxing in general, but appreciate the info.

 

[TheShrimp]

Re: i`ll have to disagree

Re: i`ll have to disagree

when they stipulated(oscar`s camp)10 oz gloves it meant to me that oscar is not looking for a punchout....also,and very importantly,they switched from reyes(also known as "razors")to grant gloves...this will lessen the chance of legit cuts....oscar has never been down,much less out and i don`t think vargas can stop him either

DLH hasn't fought quality at this weight, either.

Look what happened to Trinidad when he finally fought a real middleweight.

Vargas' chin is all right. He took a fvcking beating from Tito and was still trying to get back up after the 3rd knockdown in the 12th. And Tito has more power than Oscar. And Tito hit him with a low blow. I don't think Oscar has a chance at knocking him out.

On the other hand, I figure Mayweather Sr. for kind of a "protect yourself and box" gameplan, so I don't necessarily think Oscar goes down, either.

I've made a play on "yes it will go rounds" at 1.86 at SIA (dont' ask me WHERE they got that price it's 43/50 in odds). They really piss me off sometimes. "yes" is 1.86 and "no" is 1.79. Both of those are worse than -110. Chicken shit way to run a book. Stupid me for betting.

I'm still pondering the fight, but I think I'm still sticking with vargas. I only have cash at SIA right now, and they're offering a shitty price on Vargas. This lack of Paypal crap is cramping my style.

 

[gardenweasel]

trinidad vs de la hoya and vargas

trinidad vs de la hoya and vargas

trinidad(a legit welter his whole career) had no trouble moving up to fight "the monster" vargas....he was hurt once in the fight while vargas took a miserable beating from round one.....tito is nowhere near the boxer that de la hoya is(as witnessed by their fight)...oscar was giving trinidad a boxing lesson(trinidad looked almost exactly the way he looked vs another master boxer-hopkins)...then around the eigth round oscar thought he had it bagged and took to many rounds off(or whatever-see the rest of this thread)...i still thought de la hoya proved superior in that fight until he had brain-lock(don king is trinidad`s promoter).....so why will this be different?...well,because vargas is "MAD"....well,here`s a news flash just in..."vargas acts like a moron before every fight" with the faces and the threats.....and many expert boxing people absolutely believe vargas will never be the same after the trinidad beating.. in his last 2 fights(since trinidad),he nearly got k.o.`ed by light punching ex-lightweight wilfredo rivera and got knocked around by journeyman shibata flores before he stopped him(rivera truly was a much smaller man and flores was vargas` old sparring partner)....they had a lot of confidence in vargas after the trinidad fight ....de la hoya in that time frame fought shane mosley and jr middleweight champ javier castillejo(a legit jr middie who has been stopped once in 55 fights on a cut)....take a hard look here...look at who these guys are....where they`ve been.....i understand taking a shot at vargas at over 2-1 odds....i think it goes to the cards and have bet both guys getting odds on both ends....but,good quick,tall boxers usually beat punchers....and everybody is talking like dela hoya can`t punch......if vargas is thinking that way,he will be in trouble(and so will my wagers)....one thing that would really surprise me is delahoya getting k.o.`ed......this isn`t shibata flores or wilfredo rivera....vargas is fighting the guy who outboxed trinidad,who in turn punished vargas....there is one very big thing that causes me to pause...that last 4 rounds vs trinidad....i have no idea what happened....i don`t think de la hoya has ever sufficiently explained throwing that fight away...lack of heart?.....can he be intimidated?...i don`t think he would have ever taken this fight if vargas hadn`t looked so bad recently.....de la hoya is without a doubt the better fighter...their careers show that...but after all those belts(4),and fighting all those tough guys, it`s incredible that i can still question his heart and resolve...this fight will really go a long way toward shaping both guy`s legacy....a biggie...

 

[fletcher]

gw was over there today at noon for a press conf. and they are wearing 10 oz reyes. and vergas's camp is not happy about 10 oz gloves. and it was set by both sanctioning bodies.

the nva states they can be from 8-10 oz but the sanctioning bodies said they had to be 10 so that's what nv said it would be then.

 

[gardenweasel]

the more i look at this

the more i look at this

the more muddled it gets..i just watched oscar`s trinidad fight again and the last 4 rounds vs trinidad totally cloud the issue for me.....he avoided this fight like the plague for a long time....i just saw an interview on t.v....he doesn`t strike me as the most confident guy i`ve seen..and his camp did stipulate they wanted 10 oz gloves(when the rules i`ve seen mandate 8 oz for all fights under 160 lbs.)i`ll stick with my wagers on the decision...i seriously doubt if oscar mixes it up...if he fights scared,he will hurt his legacy and his career....i just can`t take a definitive stand on a side here...my vargas dislike may cloud my judgement and i can`t get a handle on where de la hoya`s head is at this point in his career..could he be psyched out(even after all those championship fights)?.maybe.....g.l. guys.

 

[badjab]

the reason Oscar wants the 10oz. gloves is not because he is afraid of Vargas' punching power, but rather to protect his hands which have given him problems recently.

 

[gardenweasel]

fletch

fletch

do you have the definitive info on type of gloves used and ring size(the ring size could be very important...i can`t come up with that info).....i gather you are saying reyes gloves...i had heard they agreed on grants......thanks

 

[fletcher]

gloves are set will get ring size today for you.

badJab i think you are right about that,because that's why the fight had to be moved back.

Just so no -one goes over board i do-not have a lot on this fight i thought it could go either way but the price was worth the shot alone.

should be +160 at best but then the price could be because of the action put out so far,sat afternoon when the big money starts to flow will give a true read into who is playing what.

good luck.

 

[gardenweasel]

good point fletch

good point fletch

these odds have confounded me from the jump....+235 for vargas and you have to almost lay 3-1 to get de la hoya....are they begging you to bet vargas,or what?....do they feel he`s shot after trinidad?...i have to admit,it`s a little strange.....makes you think non-boxing fans must bet these big fights based on name recognition...i wish i had more confidence in vargas-by the way,i saw the tape of the vargas push....de la hoya looked a full 2 inches taller.

 

[gardenweasel]

just heard oscar on espn2 fightshow

just heard oscar on espn2 fightshow

he said,"i know he`s the bigger man and i know i might be in over my head,but i think i can win it"....that doesn`t sound like a confident guy...maybe de la hoya doesn`t have the fire anymore....

 

[SMOKE JENSEN]

My take. I believe in this fight del la hoya dose not have the advantage. In this fight he is the smaller man. In this fight he is not the stronger man. In this fight he is not the younger man. In this fight he will not enjoy a great speed advantage. In this fight the other fighters desire for victory is greater.


I believe in this fight like the mosley fight. Oscar being almost a one handed fighter will cost him. Vargas is a very good fighter. Vargas also is a two handed fighter. I believe this will be a very exciting fight. Vargas by decision.

 

[Randercity]

Going with FLETCH and VARGAS

Going with FLETCH and VARGAS

I don't know how anyone can say that VARGAS has no heart... he didn't get his "ass beat" by TITO as some have mentioned, he got out-CHEATED and outsmarted is all. TITO DEFINITELY threw intentional low blows to slow down VARGAS and it worked, but the guy was still game even after having his gonads whacked and bruised... he's a man, and well, Oscar is still the Golden BOY. Emphasis on BOY there....

OSCAR wants to beat VARGAS to shut him up, but VARGAS NEEDS to kill OSCAR to quench his demons. I like VARGAS. I think the street kid gets wise and takes out OSCAR late... maybe the 10th.

 

[EMJ32]

Late $ coming in on Vargas. Now +200 at MVP and +230 at Oly.

Junior44 where are you???