Economic Know-Nothingism: The GOP's nutso claim

Chadman

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Economic Know-Nothingism
The GOP's nutso claim that government spending doesn't create jobs.
By Daniel Gross
Posted Wednesday, Feb. 4, 2009, at 5:27 PM ET

There are three options government can pursue when the economy goes south. First, the Fed can cut interest rates, buy up assets, and extend credit, all of which the central bank has already done. Second, Congress can cut taxes on businesses and consumers in the hope they will spend more. The first effort?last year's tax rebates?didn't have the intended effect since consumers used much of the windfall to pay down debt or save. The substantial tax cuts that will be part of the Obama stimulus package would likely have a similarly muted effect. Businesses and consumers, facing a tough credit environment and needing to repair their balance sheets, will likely use proceeds from the tax cuts to tide themselves over. The third option is for the government to directly purchase goods and services, to substitute the demand that consumers and businesses aren't providing.

The Washington remnant of the Republican Party?40 senators and 178 representatives?is all for Options 1 and 2, cheap money and tax cuts. But they're having great difficulty with Option 3. They have forgotten Richard Nixon's famous line that "we're all Keynesians now." To them, spending government funds to goose the economy is unacceptable, not just because of the possibility of poor execution ?i.e., pork. No, many are rejecting it as a matter of principle. Even though several Republican governors are pleading for assistance in the form of federal spending, Washington Republicans are saying no.

Newly elected Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele laid down the party line on CNN: "Let's get this notion out of our heads that the government create jobs. Not in the history of mankind has the government ever created a job." Sen. Jim DeMint of South Carolina succinctly summed up his opposition: "We can't keep spending and borrowing to get us out of a recession." Sen. Kit Bond of Missouri concedes that some government spending?such as spending on highways?can create jobs but thinks that spending on mass transit or alternative-transit infrastructure isn't stimulative.

These claims are so peculiar that it's hard to know where to begin. Contrary to Steele's assertion, in the history of mankind, the government has in fact created many, many jobs (including the one he held for a few years: lieutenant governor of Maryland). Today, government accounts for 22.5 million of the nation's 135.5 million payroll jobs, or 16.6 percent. Those numbers include people who work for the federal, state, and local governments?doctors and nurses in public hospitals and teachers at elementary schools and public universities. Government also has created?and continues to create?all sorts of private-sector jobs, for defense contractors, the aerospace industry, medical-device makers, real estate companies, and construction firms. The economy of the Washington, D.C., area has boomed in recent decades not so much because the federal government has expanded its payrolls massively but because private government contractors have been thriving. As the Bureau of Labor Statistics notes, in January, "the large areas with the lowest jobless rates in December were Oklahoma City, Okla., and Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, D.C.-Va.-Md.-W.Va."?a capital city, and the capital city.

Contra DeMint, borrowing and spending are pretty much how the government has pulled itself out of every modern recession. And contrary to what Bond argues, mass transit can be plenty stimulative. (Here's a report from the New York Times on the economic impact of the Second Avenue subway project in Manhattan.) For an example of how a little spending on mass transit might save jobs, Bond could look a little closer to home. The New York Times reported Wednesday on how St. Louis' inability to fund its bus system means hundreds of employees will find it impossible to get to work. In the case of St. Louis, several million dollars might help save a few jobs. That sounds defensive. But in a period when Americans are losing jobs at a furious clip, when the economy is shrinking rapidly, when monetary policy is near exhaustion, and when tax cuts aren't likely to work as they do in ordinary times, the highest priority is simply to stop the downward spiral.

There's plenty of legitimate argument over the stimulus?too much, too little, not fast enough, too fast, the proper mix of tax cuts and spending. Alan Blinder's op-ed in the Wall Street Journal is an excellent guide to some of the debates. But the Republicans in Washington aren't reading Blinder. And it's almost impossible for the Obama team, or anybody else, to engage them in serious discussions. Virtually all the prominent Republican economists who were associated with the Bush administration in any way have fled Washington for the private sector or academia. Today, the congressional Republicans are taking their advice from Joe the Plumber.
 

dawgball

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This is a well-stated opinion.

Government can create jobs, certainly. But "jobs", in and of themselves, are not necessarily the answer. They "might" work as a well-served, short-term bandage, but how high of a percentage do we want of our total workforce to be government jobs? (I don't have an answer for this question)

16.6% sounds like it is creeping up there pretty good at this point.

Our government, in particular, has historically over the past 50 or so years done a very poor job of handling money. I don't feel comfortable putting more and more of the money handling in their hands.

And where does the money come from to fund these jobs? Your pocket; my pocket; and all of the other tax paying citizens here.

So now the government wants to tax your earnings (let's say $1 more). Now you have the admin costs, pork spending, and other political-type washing of the money. The job they created will probably get about $0.15 of that dollar in which will, in turn, be taxed for about $0.05 of it.

So the government takes your $1.00, sifts it through their collander, and out pops a shiny dime for us to clammor over.

I'm just not convinced that more government jobs are the answer at this point. We need REAL help. Unfortunately, I don't seem to be the only one who doesn't have a clue on how to make that change happen. And I especially don't like the politicians who have been sucking us dry for decades calling the shots.
 

Chadman

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I agree with much of what you said, dawg. Certainly, at this point, "The Government" is not necessarily a good steward of our money, but they do remain essentially the only people who can get many things accomplished that otherwise would never happen to maintain our society and standards of living. A better balance certainly is a better option. I just posted this as food for thought, as "The Government" seemingly always is portrayed in a negative light by the conservative wing - which as explained above continues to employ many of the complainers. And this viewpoint does somewhat dispel that commentary that "The Government" doesn't create any jobs. 16% of our current workforce does seem a little higher than, well, zero.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Would say depends on where jobs are added--to gov or mainstream--

2 non political common sense thoughts on economics--

then you decide--

Wikipedia - Adam Smith's theory of the Invisible Hand states that if each consumer is allowed to choose freely what to buy and each producer is allowed to choose freely what to sell and how to produce it, the market will settle on a product distribution and prices that are beneficial to all the individual members of a community, and hence to the community as a whole. The reason for this is that greed will drive actors to beneficial behavior. Efficient methods of production will be adopted in order to maximize profits. Low prices will be charged in order to undercut competitors. Investors will invest in those industries that are most urgently needed to maximize returns, and withdraw capital from those that are less efficient in creating value. Students will be guided to prepare for the most needed (and therefore most remunerative) careers. And all these effects will take place dynamically and automatically.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
an article pertaining to my 80-20 rule and what will occur when less than 1/2 of population are productive tax payors as you will see by end of O's term.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/118501-the-real-cost-of-economic-stimulus?source=article_sb_picks

The real cost of economic stimulus

I highly recommend this article by Malcolm Gladwell. According to Gladwell, General Motors (GM), Social Security and African poverty all share a root cause: too few producers for each dependent. Why is GM in a hole? Mostly because too much money that could have been reinvested in the company has gone to provide current benefits for a retiree pool growing faster than its employee base (read Lowenstein's While America Aged to see how the UAW and management bought labor peace by expanding pension benefits like crazy. GM easily made annual shortfalls while it enjoyed dominant cash flow and a small retiree base but both sides ignored the exploding future benefits). Why do poor nations stay poor? Corruption and bureaucracy for sure, but Gladwell argues it's too small a producer base relative to dependents.

Extrapolate from there: Social Security...the State of New York's budget...U.S. income taxes. The State of New York has been feeding on the huge tax base of Wall St. for years and now that Wall St.'s dead, or at least in a coma, there isn't funding to support the demand for services. Nearly all federal personal income taxes are paid by the top half of taxpayers. Amazingly, Obama campaigned on a pledge (taxpayers who make less than $250k, i.e. 95% of all taxpayers will receive a tax break) that'll exacerbate the problem (BTW, so did John McCain).

So when you think about the stimulus package, consider if it creates dependencies that, for political reasons, won't be reversed. Therein lies the real cost.
 

dawgball

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but they do remain essentially the only people who can get many things accomplished that otherwise would never happen to maintain our society and standards of living.

I believe a free-er (is that a word) commerce would do such a thing in a much more efficient manner.

What we have is our government propping up corporations who have become too large but continue to pad their pockets. Small business and entrepreneurship is what this country was built on and it will be the only way we get out of our current mess.

I would rather see our government get the hell out of the way, slow down the tax and fee requirements on small business, and let us (you, me, and the other hard working folks) get this ship turned around.

AND STOP BAILING OUT BIG COMPANIES JUST BECAUSE THEY PAY YOU LOBBY MONEY TO DO SO!!
 

rusty

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This article has me confused cause the Reps. believe the way to go is thru tax cuts opposed to spending thru the stimulus package.

Ever heard of dont believe everything you read or hear esp. from the media.
 

rusty

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Yeah I know about the taxcuts for the working man.Its so small it would have no effect on govt.

If anything it would give the average american 100 dollars a month in there pocket.And it would be money they earn.

My point is the big rep. taxcuts that realistly have killed us.Maybe we should get back some of the money that George W. gave to Wal-Mart on there tax help that would be a start.:shrug:
 

StevieD

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Just a thought but if we fixed the health care mess we would be putting $100 a month in everyones pocket. No need for health care costs to be so high. The Medical Community and the Insurance Community both need to be slapped down. No need for a broken finger to be so expensive. Bring the costs down to reality. Cut the insurance premiums. Just a start but it would help everybody.
 

dawgball

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Just a thought but if we fixed the health care mess we would be putting $100 a month in everyones pocket. No need for health care costs to be so high. The Medical Community and the Insurance Community both need to be slapped down. No need for a broken finger to be so expensive. Bring the costs down to reality. Cut the insurance premiums. Just a start but it would help everybody.

Personally, I think the way we fix the health care issue is many fold, but two of the main components are:

1. Make preventative health more accessible
2. Get the person asking for the service more in tune with the total cost. HINT: It does not cost $15 to go see a doctor.

There are many, many, MANY other facets such as Tort reform, insurance transparency, Big Pharma reform (lobbying) and long list of others.

People expect health care to be free or damn near it. The reality is that it is expensive.

I think the majority of tax-paying citizens want "affordable" not free health care. Our system is heavily weighed down by people who want "free". I think this will cause a flood to our already cracking system.
 
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