Economics 101

saint

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How the US tax system works

Bar Stool Economics


Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until on day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20."Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20,"declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.
 

kosar

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Snopes is disputing the authorship, not the content.

Of course. It's a hypothetical parable written by God knows who. There is no way to debate the 'content' of something like that.

But attributing it to an economics P.H.D. might just be a little misleading.
 

BobbyBlueChip

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It's just a metaphor that's fundamentally flawed. An organized government that provides law and order benefits the rich much more than the poor. The metaphor would be a little more relevant if we included what they ordered

1st through 4th man: saltines and water ($0.35)
5th man: chips, salsa and water ($0.50)
6th man: side of fries and coke ($2.50)
7th man: hot dog, onion rings and coke ($5.50)
8th man:Burger, cheese fries and domestic light ($10.00)
9th man: Double cheeseburger, cheese fries, bowl of soup glass of cabernet ($22.00)
10th man: 48 oz porterhouse, baked potato, bowl of soup, caesar salad, cognac and an after dinner port ($90.00)
 

Wilson

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Thanks.

We got the typical responses from the midget with six chins and the guy who hates anything American, Bobby Blue Chip.

Keep spreading the wealth fellas. Its only fair. :rolleyes:
 

BobbyBlueChip

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Thanks.

We got the typical responses from the midget with six chins and the guy who hates anything American, Bobby Blue Chip.

Keep spreading the wealth fellas. Its only fair. :rolleyes:

Who would have known that this would be a topic that would bring you out of your hole? You must be pretty passionate about bar stool economics

and also, I like my wife - she's American.
 

BobbyBlueChip

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We are blessed with having a lot of 1%ers on these forums.

Maybe you can learn to get a job outside the guberment and stop sucking on the governments teet - or not
 

Chadman

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Don't worry, Wilson. Those top guys would never spend time drinking with the bottom guys - or paying for their drinks. They could never account for sneaking them in on their expense reports while trying to make bonus money for getting their stock price up.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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It's just a metaphor that's fundamentally flawed. An organized government that provides law and order benefits the rich much more than the poor. The metaphor would be a little more relevant if we included what they ordered
1st through 4th man: saltines and water ($0.35)
5th man: chips, salsa and water ($0.50)
6th man: side of fries and coke ($2.50)
7th man: hot dog, onion rings and coke ($5.50)
8th man:Burger, cheese fries and domestic light ($10.00)
9th man: Double cheeseburger, cheese fries, bowl of soup glass of cabernet ($22.00)
10th man: 48 oz porterhouse, baked potato, bowl of soup, caesar salad, cognac and an after dinner port ($90.00)

It did bobby-- what part of -- ten men go out for beer would you like me to explain to you :)
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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How many responses would you expect to another stupid chain email?

http://www.snopes.com/business/taxes/howtaxes.asp

a bit more on Snopes Matt--believe the boys there have a bit of political bias.

check out their link to reputing a few of lies on obama in this link--have you ever saw such weak points or opinionated points?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp


Take their answers for # 1,14-and 32 for example --
He was taken literally
He misremembered
He mispoke

Sounds more like KOS than the old snopes????
 

kosar

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a bit more on Snopes Matt--believe the boys there have a bit of political bias.

check out their link to reputing a few of lies on obama in this link--have you ever saw such weak points or opinionated points?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp


Take their answers for # 1,14-and 32 for example --
He was taken literally
He misremembered
He mispoke

Sounds more like KOS than the old snopes????


I dunno, Wayne. I've never known snopes to have a political bias, but I know a chain email when I see one and snopes is always on top of those.

This one(the one you cited, not the original one that saint posted) reminds me of that one you and many others have posted about Clinton being involved in 57, or whatever, murders. lol

As for #1- you could take it either way. That chain email obviously took it one way and Obama explained what he meant. I mean, parking tickets and this sort of thing are comparable.

#14- who knows and who cares if an article 'changed his life' and what magazine may or may not have published it.

#32- Wouldn't someone have to had 'mispoke' to say he won a state where he wasn't even on the ballot? I mean, seriously.

You guys and your taxes and aversion to helping the poor crack me up.

Never a word about the ridiculous, unheard spending of this administration. Please save the crap about '2 wars, Katrina, etc.'

In 2 1/2 weeks everything will be settled. If you or Weasel end up in the hospital or jail, I will send flowers or bail money.

I would offer the same sort of thing for the hillbilly Wilson, but I don't think militia compounds in the hills of West Virginia have addresses.
 

StevieD

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Found on another site.

Unfortunately, the entire story is built on a false premise - that the rich pay higher tax rates than the poor. That is true if you only consider income taxes, but income taxes are not the only taxes we pay. Poor and middle class workers pay Social Security tax on all of their earnings, while the rich pay Social Security tax on only a fraction of their salaries, and none of their investment income. The poor pay more of their income in sales taxes, because they must spend more of their incomes on tangible personal property. Middle class homeowners pay real estate taxes on their homes, their largest asset, while the wealty pay no such taxes on their jewelry or investment assets. All in all, Warren Buffett calculated that he pays a smaller portion of his income in taxes than does his receptionist. He challenged any CEO of a major corporation to show that that was not true of their companies. So far, no takers.
 
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