Ethical dilemma

GM

PleasureGlutton
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Ok...looking for your opinion here....

My grandfather died on June 7th. His 85-year-old wife (2nd wife, not my grandmother), is living in his condo here in Toronto. She's a multi-millionaire and cheap as hell. She's also an American citizen who has never bothered to get citizenship here in Canada, despite living here 6 months of the year.

Anyways, my grandfather had 2 condos, both of which he bought himself while my grandmother was alive.... one in Toronto, which he lived in in the summer, and one in Florida for the winter. Their agreement while he was alive was that she would pay for everything for the half a year while they were in the U.S., and he would pay for everything for the 6 months in Canada. In his last 3 years however, he was not healthy enough to make the trip south, so they spent the last three years of his life in Canada full time (and she never offered to chip in on their costs, because "that was their agreement") That's left us a bit bitter, as we really don't feel that was the spirit of the agreement. The assumption was they'd spend equal time in each country...so we feel she took advantage of the situation and his ill-health. He has basically paid all the bills, paid for all the food, you name it for the past three years, while all she had to pay was minimal bills for an unused Florida condo during the same time. When she'd go shopping for anything here (and she's a shop-a-holic), it all went on his credit card while he was laid up at home. The condo fees here are about 4x annually what the Florida condo fees are.

So...when he died, the condo in Toronto was willed to my mother, and the one in Florida was willed to his wife....which only makes sense since she is American and always wanted to be in the States (at least, until recently), and she has no reason to stay here in Canada. Everyone was aware of this agreement long before he died. So... my mother is now paying the bills for the Toronto condo while his wife continues to live there...and still she won't chip in anything. She is also tying up the settlement of the will in other ways which are far too complicated to detail here. And because the will can't be settled yet, this is coming out of my mother's pocket for the time being.

According to the will, she had 90 days to vacate the Toronto condo when he died. She's already gotten an extension til the end of October on that because she said it is too hot this time of year for her in Florida and she is under too much stress.

The Toronto condo needs a lot of work. My mother wants to get in to fix it up before she sells it. Gramps wife won't let her in....and now tells my mother she "doesn't care" what the will says, she has decided she is not leaving.

Legally...I know my mother has the right to call the shots, and could technically evict her on September 7th (90 days after his death). The question is.... do you boot out an 85-year old woman & stick to the letter of the will & part on bad terms...or is there a better way to handle this awkward woman & cut her a bit of slack? She is older...we are not completely heartless, but she has to give SOMETHING in return we feel.

Opinions welcomed on this really unfortunate situation.
 

saint

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IMO I would give her the boot. It seems that you all have been very reasonable with her for a long period of time. The fact that she won't even let your mother into the place, even though you are paying for her to be there, is something that i would not be able to overlook. Also, the fact that she isn't even blood is something that I would take into consideration. I mean, if she was a nice woman who was honestly stressed and needed more time, i would oblige. On the other hand, this woman seems to have been nothing but nasty while your family has been acommodating to her. I would give her the boot. It's a no-win situation but I think IMO she has forced you into that position by her own choices.

good luck and keep us updated.
 

Franky Wright

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GM,
Try this?
Write a letter (Certified Mail) that explains you understand her situation, the greef, hot summer, etc. and tell her you will give her a month extension, and will pay for the movers to pack her up(not drive down). As cheap as she is this may appeal to her and give her the "push" she needs.
The other option she has is to be evicted if she does not chose option 1 :scared
Then tell her GTFO!
GL
Franky
 

AR182

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gm,

it's a tough situation that your family is in.

i would try to contact your step grand mother's children or grandchildren, if she has any.

talk to them politely say that your family has been nice enough to let the old lady live in the condo rent free & has also agree to let her live there beyond the agreed time.now we are trying to upgrade the condo & the old lady won't cooperate & now states that she will never move out. can they please help you out because you don't want this to get messy...ie...lawyers.

give them a timeline to respond.

if they don't respond then send them & the old lady a certified letter each mentioning the steps you have taken to try settle this peacefully.

the letter should state that this is the last time you are asking for their help with the old lady & that if they continue to ignore your family's wishes...you then have no choice to hand this matter over to an attorney.

but first speak to them nice & polite...but firm.

i hope this makes sense....

good luck.
 

Big Daddy

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GM said:
Ok...looking for your opinion here....

My grandfather died on June 7th. His 85-year-old wife (2nd wife, not my grandmother), is living in his condo here in Toronto. She's a multi-millionaire and cheap as hell. She's also an American citizen who has never bothered to get citizenship here in Canada, despite living here 6 months of the year.

Anyways, my grandfather had 2 condos, both of which he bought himself while my grandmother was alive.... one in Toronto, which he lived in in the summer, and one in Florida for the winter. Their agreement while he was alive was that she would pay for everything for the half a year while they were in the U.S., and he would pay for everything for the 6 months in Canada. In his last 3 years however, he was not healthy enough to make the trip south, so they spent the last three years of his life in Canada full time (and she never offered to chip in on their costs, because "that was their agreement") That's left us a bit bitter, as we really don't feel that was the spirit of the agreement. The assumption was they'd spend equal time in each country...so we feel she took advantage of the situation and his ill-health. He has basically paid all the bills, paid for all the food, you name it for the past three years, while all she had to pay was minimal bills for an unused Florida condo during the same time. When she'd go shopping for anything here (and she's a shop-a-holic), it all went on his credit card while he was laid up at home. The condo fees here are about 4x annually what the Florida condo fees are.

So...when he died, the condo in Toronto was willed to my mother, and the one in Florida was willed to his wife....which only makes sense since she is American and always wanted to be in the States (at least, until recently), and she has no reason to stay here in Canada. Everyone was aware of this agreement long before he died. So... my mother is now paying the bills for the Toronto condo while his wife continues to live there...and still she won't chip in anything. She is also tying up the settlement of the will in other ways which are far too complicated to detail here. And because the will can't be settled yet, this is coming out of my mother's pocket for the time being.

According to the will, she had 90 days to vacate the Toronto condo when he died. She's already gotten an extension til the end of October on that because she said it is too hot this time of year for her in Florida and she is under too much stress.

The Toronto condo needs a lot of work. My mother wants to get in to fix it up before she sells it. Gramps wife won't let her in....and now tells my mother she "doesn't care" what the will says, she has decided she is not leaving.

Legally...I know my mother has the right to call the shots, and could technically evict her on September 7th (90 days after his death). The question is.... do you boot out an 85-year old woman & stick to the letter of the will & part on bad terms...or is there a better way to handle this awkward woman & cut her a bit of slack? She is older...we are not completely heartless, but she has to give SOMETHING in return we feel.

Opinions welcomed on this really unfortunate situation.

I don't feel you would be heartless by asking here to leave. It's not like you would be putting her out on the street. She DOES have another condo to move to. As far as it being too hot right now in Florida, what is she going to do next summer? I'm sure it will be hot then too. Sounds like just a bunch of excuses.
 

MadJack

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what would your grandfather do? what would he suggest if you could contact him tonight?
 

Blackman

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Big Daddy said:
I don't feel you would be heartless by asking here to leave. It's not like you would be putting her out on the street. She DOES have another condo to move to. As far as it being too hot right now in Florida, what is she going to do next summer? I'm sure it will be hot then too. Sounds like just a bunch of excuses.


This is my thought. You aren't kicking her to the curb, she has a place to go and it seems like the means to make the move. I like the idea of the certified letter, that might give her the push.

Good luck this is not an easy situation by any means.
 

GM

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That's a tough question to answer. In this particular situation I think he would want her out and would try to talk to her out of this stance...but in general he gave and gave to this woman, and in my opinion got the short end of the stick. She has far more money than he ever had, and yet he always backed down and let her have her way. He honored their "agreement" even though it was flawed and they hadn't had the foresight to consider what would happen if they couldn't continue living in both countries. I tell you though, if the situation had been reversed and they had to live in Florida for her final 3 years, there is no way he'd be making her pay for everything. Maybe he didn't want to fight... maybe he didn't want to be alone... maybe he thought it was the gentlemanly thing to do.

Anyways....I too am of the belief this should be settled amicably if possible...but if not, evict her. My mother however is also cutting her a lot more slack than I think she should. My step-father and I are pushing her (my mom) to get more aggressive about it & stand up for herself...but we don't have the final say.

Thanks for the responses. I do like the certified letter idea.
 

BahamaMama

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GM, who gave his 2nd wife this *extension*? is it just an agreement with your mother? Also, does the will state that she is allowed to LIVE there, or that she is allowed to live there for FREE?

would definitely have utilities turned off so she had to start to pay for some bills in her own name, would also send a bill for rent beginning on 9/7, if she knows she is welcome to stay but it'll cost her, she may change her mind and move.
 

Mjolnir

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she is completely taking advantage of the situation. if she was nice and also had no money it's one thing. then i would help her. your grandfather wanted things to go a certain way or he wouldn't have put it in the will. in my opinion you have been a stand up guy. now she is taking advantage of your family.
she needs to go.
if she is loaded like you said she has many options. its not like your kicking her to the curb.
 

ScreaminPain

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BahamaMama said:
would definitely have utilities turned off so she had to start to pay for some bills in her own name, would also send a bill for rent beginning on 9/7, if she knows she is welcome to stay but it'll cost her, she may change her mind and move.

Yep....sounds like a logical solution to someone who is so money conscious. If she had to pay the bills, she may be a little more apt to move....I thinik she will ride the "gravy train" until something is forced on her..l

It's a tough spot for your family, either way!!
Good Luck
 

freelancc

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i am waiting for our renowned, resident personal relationship guru to comment on this delicate personal matter. :wall:







where is BeantownJim when you need him :mj07:
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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I would put shoe on other foot--Tell thats fine but you and your family will be using her Fla condo till she decides to move and let her foot the bills. :)
 

Franky Wright

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freelancc said:
i am waiting for our renowned, resident personal relationship guru to comment on this delicate personal matter. :wall: :mj07:


Free,
I wonder if he fell off the dock at Legal Seafoods and nobody noticed? :scared After a few coronas with lime I might add :mj07:
 

GM

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Update -

The falling out between my step-grandmother and my mother has worsened and they are not speaking to each other...though step-gr'ma is actually vacating the Toronto condo (or so she says, as of today). I am the go-between at the moment...Mom talks to me, I relay it to step-g, she replies to me, I talk to my Mom, etc. Childish, but I guess this is the only way they are going to communicate right now.

Her son from New Hampshire is coming up sometime next month to help her clean her things out. She now says she will be out by September 7th (she picked the date, we had not mentioned this to her...our offer to let her stay til Oct 31 still stood...but she just came out with this...). So she is obviously aware of when her 90 days is up, and may be acting on legal advice so as not to give us any additional leverage, or any claim that we did her any favors. She has agreed to let me take some items that belong to our family and/or she doesn't want or need. So I am heading over there the middle of next week with a friend and a moving van to take some of the furniture that was specifically left for my mother. I was nominated because 1) I wasn't directly involved in the blow up; 2) She is probably more accepting of me than anyone else in the family, especially now, 3) I have the rare ability - in my family at least - to keep my mouth shut / not respond if provoked, and 4) I can lift heavy items. :)

Anyways, it's progress.... ~I think~ ... but now the trick is for us to get an appraiser into her place in Florida, because that is also a necessary part of settling the will. She actually stands to lose money if the place is valued any higher than $100,000US, and the one real estate agent we have spoken to in Florida who is a friend of a friend says in her area there is absolutely, positively no way the place is worth a penny less than $160,000US in that location, even if it was completely run down. So we are trying to get a lean on the property so she can't sell it quickly for peanuts and avoid paying the profit she would make on such a sale to the estate.

Fun.
 
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