gatti-ward thread...kickin` it around

[gardenweasel]

background-a 10 rounder...was supposed to be a 12 round ibf title eliminator but the ibf sanctioning fees were so exorbitant and would have eaten such huge chunks out of each fighter`s purse that the fighters said the hell with it....disgusting......these alphabet soup organizations are nothing but thieves with suits on...

a very tough call(in my eyes)....due to numerous variables involved...will try and weigh the pro`s and cons and come up with something

overview-
ward-won the last fight via close decision.....appears to be the tougher and probably the stronger......the press was oohing and ahhing over the new,muscular,buff mickey ward at the public workout....apparently mickey put on a good deal of muscle since the last fight...

gatti-quicker,better boxer,younger guy....bad boxing sense...doesn`t know how to fight the smart fight....easily lured into brawls when they may not be in his best interest...lumps up and cuts easily


edges-
ward-
-tougher
-more resilient(they both are resilient)takes an enormous amount of punishment without folding
-stronger
-vicious body puncher

gatti-
-has home turf advantage this time-fighting in atlantic city...last fight was at one of the reservation casinos in new england (mohegansun?...not sure....mickey`s a massachusetts guy)

-quicker
-better boxer
-better corner(buddy mcgirt is one of the top up and coming trainers-although he was there for the first fight)
-also resilient...but lumps up and cuts easily
-not a very smart,savvy fighter(always seems to fight his opponents fight)...loses focus..

analysis-
initially was leaning ward but have done a 180 after reading and taking a hard look..10 rounds should favor gatti....the shorter the fight,the less time to get cut and lumped up

-home turf-i think this has to be of some help...but maybe not...plenty of ward fans will make the trip from new england...and i think ward has a bigger following...but,i still believe fighting in atlantic city is a slight edge for gatti

-mcgirt is stating publicly (as is gatti )that they will box this time....mcgirt knows and has tried to impress on gatti the fact that this could be an easy fight if he fights smart...gatti is honestly the much more talented fighter...but,he has to be the most stupid fighter i have ever laid eyes on...he boxed for the 1st 3 or so rounds of the first fight and controlled the fight....when it turned into a brawl,and mickey started landing those body shots,that`s when it fell apart....that might have been due to half stupidity and half fatigue..can mcgirt make gatti understand and do what needs to be done...if i thought that,i`d make this a big wager...what has convinced me to lay the small odds for a small to medium wager are;

1)atlantic city venue

2)the potential for a third,very lucrative rubber match

3)gatti`s training regimen that is emphasizing conditioning and leg movement so he can box for ten rounds

4)and most importantly-the fact that ward has put on quite a bit of muscle prior to the fight....muscle mass and boxing are like oil and water(especially at the middleweight level and below)....does the name fernando vargas ring a bell?...i expect this to work against ward the longer the fight lasts...he won`t be as quick,and will get lethargic as the fight wears on...he is 37 years old and as far as i can remember,has never been real buff in the ring...very late in the game to be making such a change in your physical make-up prior to a fight...


there is always the wild card of cuts,and gatti is a hard headed guinea,so it wouldn`t surprise me to see him fight another stupid fight regardless of mcgirt`s instructions...the low odds,revenge,home turf,musclebound ward,and mcgirts insistence that gatti will box are enough for me to get up off a small-medium wager...sure wouldn`t bet the farm as if it turns into a war(as it well might),the vicious ward body shots and,or cuts might kill me...bet large amounts at your own peril..:nono: .....g.l.

 

[SMOKE JENSEN]

I believe Gatti won the first fight. Close, but I thought he won. Have to believe that the Gatti camp has been working on certain movements and angles to help negate Wards left hooks to the body. And also I have to believe they have been watching tapes of the last fight. They have to realize that when Gatti was moving and boxing he was winning easily. This also helps him not get hit as much which means less chance of cuts. I'm sure Mcgirt understands all of the above. I'm sure he has had Gatti put in extra road work also to aid in the movement he will need thru out the fight. Now with all this said. One has to hope Gatti understands this also. If he loses again to Ward. His $$$ making potential drops greatly. If he wins. I believe its on to Kostya Tszyu. And more big money. I think he learns his lesson. Moves alot and wins a decision. I don't believe he stops Ward. And I also believe while this will be a exciting fight. It will not be as great as the first fight. Just my thoughts.

 

[gardenweasel]

smoke

smoke

looks like we see the same thing.....g.l. to us

 

[SMOKE JENSEN]

Thanks GW. But I have to be honest. I will not be betting on the fight. After my total flop on my system on the NFL. The system that hit until I put real money on it. I have pulled all my bankroll back. What was left anyway. While I have lost the battle. I have not lost the war. I will return. But I enjoy exchanging views with you as always. Good luck to you.

 

[TheShrimp]

I think you hit the nail on the head with the comment about Gatti getting dragged into the other fighter's fight. I don't think he fights 40 fights and all of a sudden turns into a boxer, no matter who is in his corner.

In a decision, I like the guy who's face doesn't swell up like a balloon the second he gets hit.

They've both won and lost in Atlantic City, so I don't think the venue will make much of a difference. I do expect a lot of Mickey Ward fans to make the trip.

In followups to close decisions, I usually like the guy who lost the first one. But here, I'm going small on Ward just to have some money on the fight. Gatti is one of my least favorite fighters because of his illegal weigh-in and fight against Maine's Joey Gamache which ended Joey's career.

Besides, give me better than even money on the guy who has already won.

Ward +110.

Good luck guys.

 

[gardenweasel]

one more bit of info

one more bit of info

"jersey based earl morton has been assigned as the third man in the ring for saturdays ward-gatti bout"......remember,gatti is a jersey boy...in the first fight,by no means was ward the clearcut winner...gatti had a point deducted for a low blow and one judge scored the knock-down round 10-7(even though it was a back and forth round)....without those 2 anomalies, this fight ends in at worst for gatti,a draw...i think NOT fighting in new england is more of a gatti advantage than fighting in new jersey is an advantage...ward is huge in new england...as i said,this one`s a toss-up....leaning gatti because i do see some edges favoring him here....but,small...g.l. shrimp and everybody...

 

[badjab]

gardenweasel,
I agree with just about everything you said in your initial post. I was all over Gatti in their first fight last year. Had to admit, I didn't think Ward would put up such a good show. I think the "home field" advantage will play a big role in the rematch. Also, I tend to agree that Gatti will be in better "boxing" shape and think some adjustments will be made.

Placing a small wager on Gatti - 140 :nutkick

 

[shamrock]

garden, you make many good points, obviously you know your boxing. I'll add a little if I can, Micky is a personal friend.

Although Micky has trained extremely hard for this fight, he has not added any muscle mass, he has fought at 142 pounds his entire career since he was 20 years old. He has been training &sparring with quick fighters over the last 2 months attempting to deal with Gatti s undeniable quickness advantage. That said Micky has always been a notorious slow starter and quickness & agility has never been his strong suit. He knows he will get hit, but feels Gatti does not have the power to hurt him. He feels he took Gatti best shot last fight. Micky does cut, however doesn't swell like Gatti, both fighters have superior cut men. Micky feels Gatti will have trained & will be looking to defend against his notorious body attack, in fact Ward was sparring with New England welterweight Champion Jeff Fraza & broke his ribs 2 weeks ago. While Gatti will be cautious of body attack, Micky hopes to work his j ab, as Gatti swells quite easy around the eyes as he did in last fight.

Micky knows full well the early fight will not be his, however he is not a young fighter, and he doesn't get frustrated. At some point Gatti will mix it up, because let's face it He is a warrior. Buddy & his box & move strategy will at some point be abandoned sooner or later.

Gatti is without doubt a superior boxer with superior hand speed, however he is not a good defensive fighter & somehow manages to get hit with everything. If he were to keep his distance and box, I have little doubt he could win this match on points. Gatti is a emotional kid & I think at some point he will want to bang rather than box. If he does start to bang, Micky could again take this fight. Ward is a superior defensive fighter, and can take more shots & punishment than Gatti. If they trade I can guarantee Micky will be there until the end.

Garden, you are right on the nose regarding alphabet counsels. What a joke. I can tell you, neither fighter really wanted 12 rounds anyway. As always there is a fly in the ointment, that being Larry Hazard, the idiot NJ calls a boxing commissioner. Hazard is openly and unprofessionally a Gatti Fan and has openly complained about the decision in the first fight. He has positioned his referee of choice & all 3 judges. Let's hope we get to see a fair fight.

Win or lose Micky is only taking 1 fight after this. If it is tszyu great, if not Ward will probably fight undefeated British Champion Ricky Hatton. My bet is tszyu won't take a fight against either of these fighters, he'd rather fight guys like Jesse James Leija.

Ivan Robinson doesn't hit anywhere near as hard as Ward & Robinson beat Gatti twice in 98. I believe if Micky can get to Gatti he can win this fight, plain and simple no 140lbes hits as hard as Ward. I ask Zab Judah myself if he would fight Micky again at the Ward vs kid Vegas Sanchez fight at Foxwoods, he said absolutely not. Judah said nobody in the weight class hits anywhere close to as hard as Ward.

I don't think I will wager on this fight, to many variables. My advice sit back & watch 2 professionals give everything they have. No chest thumping or dancing, just a Old fashion Saturday night fight.

 

[gardenweasel]

shamrock

shamrock

about as well written a boxing post as i have seen...let me say one last thing....these are 2 of the bravest,toughest dudes i have ever had the pleasure of watching in the ring....i almost didn`t want to see this rematch....these guys are so tough and dedicated,and leave so much of themselves in the ring with each fight,that you have to fear for their personal safety...i certainly wouldn`t give a damn if i lost my silly,inconsequential wager as long as these two courageous guys walk out of the ring in good shape....i just pray that they both stay healthy and that they are both getting the reported million dollar purses that they richly deserve....g.l. to them both.

 

[UT-Longhorn]

What do yall think?

OVER or UNDER 10 rounds?

 

[trademaster]

gatti is gonna smoke ward to set up a 3rd fight winner takes all

 

[shamrock]

if Gatti doesn't swell, fight should go distance. If he does & can't see what Ward is throwing, Micky can & will take him out.

Trademaster, Gatti doesn't have strength to "smoke" Ward, if he tries, it will be his demise. If he boxes he wins, plain and simple.

Enjoy the fight Garden!! Good luck.

 

[SMOKE JENSEN]

Well congrats to Gatti for changing his style. The certain angles & movements to negate Wards left hook was holding on at the right times. Have to give credit to Mcgirt for coming up with the plan. And big credit to Gatti for following the plan. Ward is tough and a class act in defeat. If I was Gatti. I would not fight Ward again for a while. Move on to the championship. Try to get a fight with Tszyu. While he will be an underdog. He has a punchers chance. Tszyu dose not take a punch as good as Ward. But he punches alot harder. Tszyu most likely wins. But the fight will have it's moments.

 

[gardenweasel]

another great night for boxing

another great night for boxing

not quite the drama of the first,but,plenty of action.....how ward survived the 3rd is beyond me...we have to realize that ward is 37....pretty astounding that he can go 10 tough rounds like that...i,for one,am not anxious for 3....with these 2 guys you are pushing the envelope...both seemed to come out o.k,thank god.....i had a small wager on gatti....he boxed and kept to the plan much better than i expected...but even at the end,i felt like i was sitting on a powder keg...gatti was exchanging and some of ward`s hooks weren`t missing by much..and yes,there were definitely some gatti low blows....that was the venue advantage i talked about...might not have gotten away with that at the new england locale....not sure how soon i`ll be betting on gatti again...he scares me to death....both fighters made great money,we got an entertaining fight,and made some beer money to boot...life is good...i have a big underdog coming up shortly...let`s hope to keep this great boxing run going....g.l. everybody...

 

[TheShrimp]

Good read on this one, GW and SJ. Gatti's corner kept his head on straight, and after building the lead he boxed well. I was pretty impressed when he'd drop his gloves and just start slipping punches. I didn't think he had it in him. Nice footwork, too.

That third round was something. Most guys get hit like that, and they cover up or clinch, but it seems that all that Ward knows is to throw back.

Kudos again to HBO and their fight selection. 2 guys who fight their guts out get paid a million dollars because its a fight we want to see. No belts. No real big names. Just HBO saying, "if you can put on a show, we're gonna give you money." I was kind of diggin their "old school" opening too.

Kudo's on cashing the bet. I've been hitting the dogs too heavy in these fights lately.

 

[kcwolf]

wow!

Guess I need to get over here more often. I saw a lot of great information in here after the fact. I took Micky but thanks for all the great information guys!

That's what I expect at MJ's. I commend you all, great job of breaking down the fight.