Gitmo made us less safe?

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Chadman

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Gitmo recruited thousands of terrorists, says US interrogator
David Edwards and Joe Byrne
Published: Tuesday January 27, 2009

A Pentagon report that 61 former inmates from Guantanamo Bay have "returned to the battlefield" doesn't seem to be scaring anyone. Matthew Alexander, a former senior interrogator in Iraq, told Keith Olbermann last night on MSNBC's Countdown that Guantanamo Bay is a persuasive argument for al-Qaeda in recruitment of fighters in Iraq.

Matthew Alexander led the team of interrogators who found Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in August 2006. Since returning from Iraq, he has been outspoken about the tactics that the US military uses to interrogate prisoners. His book, How to Break A Terrorist, outlines his experience with the "deeply flawed, ineffective, un-American way the US military conducts interrogations in Iraq."

The Pentagon report on former Gitmo inmates returning to terrorism has been the subject of much debate since its release. Only 18 former inmates are listed as "confirmed recidivists"; the remaining 43 are listed as "suspected," although the basis of suspicion isn't definitively documented. The activity of one "confirmed recidivist" amounts to being interviewed in a documentary about Guantanamo Bay.

Seton Hall University law professor Mark Denbeaux published a report on Jan. 15 pointing out that the Pentagon has altered its figures on "terrorist recidivism" multiple times, with the latest figure being the most egregiously inaccurate. Denbeaux spoke to MSNBC host Rachel Maddow at the beginning of the month.

"Once again, they've failed to identify names, numbers, dates, times, places, or acts upon which their report relies," the professor asserts. "Every time they have been required to identify the parties, the DOD has been forced to retract their false IDs and their numbers. They have included people who have never even set foot in Guantanamo--much less were they released from there."

Last night, Olbermann asked Matthew Alexander why the Pentagon would use the idea of former Gitmo inmates engaging in terrorism to try to keep the prison open.

"Whether [the number of detainees that are suspected terrorists] is 68 or 100, that number pales in comparison to the number of fighters that have been recruited to al-Qaeda because of Guantanamo," Alexander responded. "That number would be in the thousands. The number one reason that I consistently heard while in Iraq that foreign fighters gave for coming there was 'torture and abuse occurring in Abu Ghraib and Guant?namo'... If we seriously want to undercut one of al-Qaeda's best recruiting tools, the best thing to do would be to close Guantanamo Bay."

Olbermann closed his session with Alexander by asking him, "What would you call a compound where you throw people without trial, and then you don't keep track of how they are, or how long they've been there, or what they're charged with? What do you call that?"

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Again-how can you garner any kind of support when this is the status quo in our "shining" holding place? I realize some of you could not care less about some forms of what makes our country great...but this is pretty bad - right? I know that some of you could not care less about the big picture, if it doesn't touch you - but you guys are the first ones to hide behind the flag when it comes to what makes this country special.

Guantanamo is an embarrasment to our country, let alone the secret prisons we have nurtured. I personally am confident in this country, and the ability of our leaders to protect us, for the most part. The above story is just another reason why our previous president made all of us less safe. Not to mention his complete inability to sell it to anyone not joined at his hip, or promoting him or whatever message he was told to put out there.
 

The Sponge

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At this point why would anyone believe anything that administration has to say? I wouldn't believe Bush or Cheney if i saw that their tongues came notorized. They have their followers tho. You have to hand it to them. To find people on this planet this confused makes a guy roar with laughter.
 
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gardenweasel

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chad...this is insanity...it`s total conjecture...we haven`t been hit since 9/11(after gitmo was opened)...

these prisoners are treated better at gitmo than they`d ever be treated at some super max...halal meals,prayer mats,prayer time,recreation....

you guys that live in la-la land pick and choose the information that that you DEEM to be true... you find one liberal tool and CHOOSE to believe him...totally ignoring the pentagon`s report and the testimony of people like george tenet and schroyer that waterboarding gave us important information and saved lives...

what proof is there?...al qaeda leaders have been decimated....they are fragmented....iraq is a lost cause for them...

why is that?..where are all these recruits in iraq?....



show me where the united states(in the past...before we had all these liberally indoctrinated yo-yo`s in government and academia) has given habeas corpus or trials to enemy combatants during a time of war....
this is brand new stuff foisted on the country by progressives...

i just wish that there were a way that we could divide this country in half and put these monsters in the same zip code with the bush derangement crew and all you libs that live in a theoretical world...those that choose to ignore that if they grabbed you or any member of your family,they wouldn`t give a big rat`s ass what you thought about gitmo....

they`d chop your useless head off and shit down your neck...

these are the same people that kill homosexuals and stone women that have been raped to death....that keep female children from attending school....that murder "unbelievers"....they strap bombs on children and the mentally retarded......

we`re dealing with an 11th century perversion of humanity...

what don`t you guys get about that?...you think that coddling these people will make them "change"?...

they`re as indoctrinated into this culture of death as you guys are into this bush derangement syndrome mental disease...

that`s how hardcore these monsters are...
 
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gardenweasel

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bottom line...no it didn`t...since the opening of gitmo,we`ve had no attacks on the homeland...

that`s not conjecture...

and anyway,obama`s closing it......so,based on what we actually know,(success in iraq and no attacks on the homeland)gitmo had nothing to do with being less safe....unless you can somehow tie it into the 9/11 attack...

which would be pretty amazing,even for the bds crew...
 

The Sponge

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bottom line...no it didn`t...since the opening of gitmo,we`ve had no attacks on the homeland...

that`s not conjecture...

and anyway,obama`s closing it......so,based on what we actually know,(success in iraq and no attacks on the homeland)gitmo had nothing to do with being less safe....unless you can somehow tie it into the 9/11 attack...

which would be pretty amazing,even for the bds crew...

We got bomb in 93 and they came back in 01. Did Clinton keep us safe all those years in between or maybe they don't work on ur rushed time table.
 

Chadman

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Wease, I know what you're saying, and I think you know I agree with a lot of it. Never once have I said that Gitmo should be closed. I understand the need to detain and question presumed threats to our country. I don't pretend to know what threats have been stopped from Gitmo, although I have read that some have, and I'm very thankful of that. As I've stated many times before, when a person is found to be a threat to the country to the degree many of the terrorists are, I don't much care what happens to them, and I honestly don't care much what is done to them to find out what might save lives. This issue has many gray areas, as do most.

My complaint is quite simple, and I've still yet to see any good reason against it other than the blanket "I don't care" theory. Produce some evidence in a reasonable amount of time that shows a person should be held. Hell - come up with your definition of a reasonable amount of time - it probably would be a good one. One year? Two years? Hell - FIVE years? If you can't meet an understandable burden of proof after that time, release the prisoner. Clearly, you can't justify holding them under any pretense of common sense, or proof, for a country that supposedly stands for freedom and the burden of proof.

I don't live in la-la land. I live in the real world, in my opinion. Tend to look at things in a common-sense way, I think. No way around the above assessment, where I live.

You say that it's conjecture that Gitmo (and I assume the secret prisons, etc.) made us less safe. You hold up Iraq as some kind of proof that we are more safe due to some kind of success there. I don't think in any way it's conjecture to think that when our country is proven - outwardly and politically - that torture is acceptable and that attacking an Arab country in the middle of the middle East is honorable in some way that it would not motivate radical forces. I think it's honestly stupid to think that the steps Bush has taken has not motivated the people you tell us to be so worried about (with good reason) to come to and join that cause. In my world, common sense tells me that when we put soldiers smack dab in the middle - or close to - these forces, they are more in danger than otherwise.

And I still can't help thinking how much better off we would be as a country if the decision was made to focus on the people who did attack us, and stay on that job, instead of pulling away from it. That was the worst message of all to our allies, IMO, and certainly to the people who still threaten us. Let alone the economic factors that threaten most of us these days - which cannot be overlooked - because of that decision.

I don't base my opinions on any one person. I read quite a bit of stuff, Wease. I can usually weed through the chaff, and rarely believe everything that I even post, but I post a lot for the sake of discussion. Your ongoing talk about Iraq being a lost cause for terrorists and Al Qaida still makes me shake my head. The only time it ever has been any kind of cause or interest to them is when we went there. They certainly were no fans of Saddam, and had no interest there - until it became an option to try to kill Americans there. But, keep linking it together - you and Wayne always tend to blur that line pretty well.
 
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StevieD

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I do not understand why Obama made closing Gitmo such a priority. He doesn't even know where to send the prisoners yet and he is announcing he is closing it without a plan. I agree, stop torture, but why close the prison? Closing it without a plan is alot like Bush did when he went into Iraq. I hope we do not suffer the same kind of success.
 
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