How Many Other "Aces Gold" Does MJs Promote? Fiscal Investigation of Advertisors?

[Crack Rat]

How Many Other "Aces Gold" Does MJs Promote? Fiscal Investigation of Advertisors?



I just read the announcement re: Aces Gold!

GOD DAMN IT ALL!

Lose my $$$ because it was represented to me (and others on this site) as a SOLID AND REPUTABLE OFFSHORE! Looks like the JOKE is on me and any other Mad Jack member who believed that B.S. that was spoon fed into our mouths!

Yet, I don't blame ANYONE here but MYSELF!

My only exposure to those creeps was MINIMAL (thank God!) I had to open a $200 Aces Gold account to enter that $5000 Aces Gold NFL Challenge! LMFAO!

The only parties who made out on that contest were Aces Gold and COW! Aces Gold secured thousands of "entry fee" money, and COW got his 1st prize in CASH! $3000!
I feel really BAD for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place finishers in that contest who THOUGHT they would get legitimate betting accounts! $1000, $500 and $250 respectively! Now they get a "hole in the doughnut!" Nada! Zilch! If I was them, I'd be STEAMED! A full football season of picking ATS winners goes down the toilet!

From now on, I'll stick with the 2 offshores I KNOW WILL ALWAYS BE AROUND! Olympic and Diamond Sports International (DSI!) Experience is a GREAT teacher, and these 2 books have NEVER burned me or anyone I know for the 5 years I've been associated with them!

I've always wondered why these 2 fine offshores AREN'T represented on the "wall of shame" (seems like every other offshore book is!) Anyone know why? Mad Jack?

OK, enough venting! I realize there are many Mad Jack members who will have lost THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS because of Aces Gold going BELLY UP! $200 is an average single bet for me, and THANKFULLY, I NEVER USED THAT FLEABAG "FLY BY NIGHT" JOINT FOR ANY BETS (except to register for that aforementioned handicapping contest!)

I just wonder what type of "controls" are in place at Mad Jack's to investigate the FISCAL CONDITIONS of these offshores that advertise on this site! If there aren't any, there should be! Why risk another repeat "Aces Gold" episode?

How many other "Aces Gold" are represented here, waiting to suck the $$ from Mad Jack members and then summarily FOLD?

 

[MadJack]

Crack Rat, take your bullshit some place else. i'm just as shocked as anybody over this. Aces Gold had been one of the most respected sportsbooks in the industry until this happened. This is definitely a black eye to the entire offshore industry.

for you to come in here pointing your finger at me is way off base. i thought you were smarter than that. i guess i was wrong about you too.

also, nobody knows the "FISCAL CONDITIONS" of ANY offshore book that advertises on ANY site, except the books themselves. i go by reputation and, until today, aces gold had a flawless record.

and, yes, it looks like i'm going to lose a substancial amount of money because of this as well. i'm talking mid 5 figures. so, no, i'm not happy about it either.

excuse me while i go puke again!

and, you can go f&^k yourself!!!

 

[ABSOLUTE TRUTH]

BULLSHIT

BULLSHIT

just another competitor taking a stab.

bye

Jack

 

[Patternseeker]

crap rat

crap rat

there is no way for MJ to know the fiscal integrity of an offshore.

he does however provide us with a forum to discuss service, experience and other customer service. man, before MJs, i was just going it alone, getting lousy customer service from places like ESB ("im sorry sir a hurricane has destroyed our records")

it pisses me off that you would link this collaspe with MJ in any way.

 

[Hoops]

Crack Rat- What are you talking about? "Fly By Night Joint"...WTF? With that comment alone you are showing you have absolutely no idea what you are saying. Aces Gold had been one of the most respected, long standing books in the offshore industry...right up there with Olympic...DSI (no comment). Hindsight is 20/20 but up until a couple of weeks ago there had never been any questioning Aces reputation and ability to pay. Unfortunate circumstancs arose due to various factors, but the news today has caught everyone involved in the industry by surprise...not that they might have been having problems, but that they would go ahead and be forced into declaring bankruptcy.

You are going cuckoo over $200, meanwhile Jack and plenty of others have five figure accounts there (which should tell you something right there..Jack having that large of a balance at a book...fly by night??) that are more than likely gone...give it a rest!

 

[dawgball]

I guess Enron is a Fly-by-night company, too.

I'm not real tickled with Aces going belly up, but we do not need to point fingers. If Jack backed the company, then he believed in it. Please don't sling mud. Sometimes things don't work out the way we want them.

 

[Crack Rat]

I Was NOT Pointing the Finger at YOU, Mad Jack!

I Was NOT Pointing the Finger at YOU, Mad Jack!

I see most everyone has taken my post OUT OF CONTEXT!

Jack, I wasn't singling YOU out for what happened to Aces Gold!

I guess I was was VENTING on how and why NO ONE saw this coming!?!?! Rumor has it that a well rescepted source at The Prescription had given everyone WARNING SIGNS of Aces Gold pending demise!
I will check their archive and verify if this is indeed TRUE!

You state there's NO WAY you can get audited financials of these offshore books? Really? As popular as your site is (# of members and immense traffic,) you would think that any potential advertisor would have no problem providing you EVIDENCE that they (the offshore book advertisor) are indeed SOLVENT!

If that's NOT possible, are there any other alternative ways? There has to be some way to guage whether or not an offshore will be around! Don't these offshores have to file audited corporate financials in their respective countries? ANYONE KNOW?

Appears that it's "let the buyer beware" when it comes to choosing a book that advertises a banner anywhere on any gambling website!

*****Again, I'm NOT singling you out, Mad Jack!***** GOT THAT!?!?!

What happened with Aces Gold should be a WAKE UP CALL to ALL gambling site owners! The time has has come to be PROACTIVE and INVESTIGATE the offshores that want to advertise! Therein lies a new found fiduciary duty to the site's members IMO!

Also, how come Olympic and DSI aren't advertising here? You never replied to that! They have "stellar reps," and I'm just curious!

Now to a couple of the OTHER specific members who have replied so far to this thread:

Patternseeker ---> eat crap and die! "Crap Rat?" LMFAO@U!

Hoops ---> If I gave you the impression I'm going "coo koo" over $200, that was NOT my intention! I'm merely VENTING and stating I would like to see INDUSTRY WIDE REFORM wherein gambling website owners are afforded the OPPORTUNITY to inspect an offshore's financials before haphazardly accepting their business! As I stated to Jack above, rumor has it that this news was posted at The Prescription months ago! I'll investigate further and let you know the results! I realize many Mad Jack members have lost THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS as a result of Aces Gold going belly up, but there has to be something done so THIS WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN AND PEOPLE AREN'T BLINDSIDED!

 

[Chris]

It was more like weeks ago not months ago. Just the way they have been moving there numbers ON DB should been pretty clear that they where taking alot of chances.

 

[kosar]

Crack Rat, here are the last comments (until today) that your 'respected' source at the rx had about the Aces situation. In other words, nobody knew.


"Posted on 1/10/02
SPORTSMARKET & ACES GOLD....

I have spent most of the entire day talking with Charlie (from Sportsmarket) and other bookmakers that Sportsmarket does tranfers with...

I now know that there is NOT ONE sportsbook in the industry that has any problems with them and every gambler has been paid out in a timely manner.

It's a shame that a couple of individuals who I thought I could trust would tell me things about Sportsmarket & Aces Gold that aren't true.

I consider SPORTSMARKET to be a SOLID "out" that gamblers should consider when opening up an account offshore.

Just as a bookmaker can put out a "bad number" on a game and get "burnt" by doing so, I believe that the article that I wrote yesterday was "off" by about two touchdowns!

It was extremely unfair, and for that I apologize...

THE SHRINK "

 

[MadJack]

the article written at the prescription was taken down after one or two days (retracted). also, how many times has "wolf" been cried over there? i take that with a grain of salt, as do many in this business.

i spoke with charlie (owner of aces gold) the middle of last week and he ASSURED me that all was going to be well. he told me they took a hit over the bowl games and nfl season but lowered his limits and was restructuring his whole business plan (no more big limits and wise guys). until today, there has never been a report, that i have seen, of a slow pay or no pay.

i'm totally shocked over this.

to answer your question about olympic and dsi, not that it's any of your business....

there are a lot of books that don't advertise here. i can't have them all. there are quite a few here that i respect MORE than those books anyway. sure, they're good books, but like i said -- i can't have them all.

 

[Crack Rat]

Thanks for Explanation, Guys!

Thanks for Explanation, Guys!

OK!

I've said my 2? worth on this subject!

GL2 all gamblers!

Later!

 

[Crack Rat]

Here's How The Prescription Reported on Aces Gold Situation!

Here's How The Prescription Reported on Aces Gold Situation!

Appears the WARNING about Aces Gold was posted at The Prescription on January 9, 2002!

Needless to say, The Prescription will be required reading from now on!

I, for one, would of closed my account on 1-9-02 from Aces Gold if I would have read this!

This attached post by The Shrink is for informational purposes and hopefully will shed some light to Mad Jack members who are interested in
seeing how some people correctly forecasted Aces Gold's DEMISE!

???????????????


xxxxxxx.com saved Shrink's article and posted it at xxxxxxx.
This was written on January 9th by The Shrink

It happens every year. There will be some sports books who close their doors and elope with your monies after the Super Bowl. No matter how much we warn gamblers to reduce their liabilities, we still receive an inordinate number of emails from gamblers who become victimized each year.

Trying to predict which sports books having financial problems is not that easy. It would be irresponsible for this site to list any that we weren't certain about.

However, what we can do and have been doing for years, is to recommend gamblers leave as little money as possible in their o f f shore accounts at this time.

Of course, if your money is in one of the bigger sports books in the industry, then the chances are it will be safe, except if it happens to be in SPORTSMARKET/ACES GOLD.

Since both gamblers and sports books rely on this site to report the o f f shore industry news regardless of whether a sports book advertises here or not, it is our responsibility to warn everyone of one particular bookmaker having serious financial problems.

SportsMarket/Aces Gold is in deep financial distress. Several sources close to The Prescription confirm this. Since the sources are other bookmakers who have asked not to be identified, we will honor those requests.

Here's what's has been told to us regarding SPORTS MARKET/ACES GOLD. They currently owe more than ONE MILLION DOLLARS! Since most of this amount involves debts to other bookmakers, gamblers have not been affected yet.

Despite some slow payouts,
SPORTSMARKET has been doing everything possible to stay afloat. Their main man is well respected by his peers, but those same peers are very concerned.

Anyone who has the Don Best line service should have been able to recognize the warning signs by observing the risks SPORTSMARKET/ACES GOLD was taking throughout the college bowl games.

While every other bookmaker on the Don Best screen moved its lines when "smart" money and/or large sums of money were placed on one side of a football game, SPORTSMARKET sat there with its opening number throughout the majority of the bowl games. This is not how the elite sports books take bets. This is not how the non-elite sports books take bets either.

Every bookmaker we spoke with noticed this pattern, too, and became alarmed at how SPORTSMARKET/ACES GOLD was reacting, or in this case, not reacting to large amounts of bets that were made on certain teams during the bowl games.

It's one thing to have a cavalier attitude and not change lines, but when we have first-hand knowledge that SPORTSMARKET/ACES GOLD has been operating in the red for months now, it would be irresponsible for us not to warn gamblers that they are experiencing cash flow problems.
When I reflect back about a year ago and think of Monty's sports book, CARIBE, the same exact pattern of bookmaking occurred before CARIBE went belly under.

While every other sports book would react and move its lines when larger wagers were made on one side of a ballgame, CARIBE was usually one point off from the other sports books on the Don Best screen. In retrospect, we learned Monty did indeed have serious cash flow problems, so he took a chance by trying to bail himself out by taking enormous amounts of wagers on one side.

To conclude, although I have spent the majority of this column warning everyone that SPORTSMARKET/ACES GOLD is having cash flow problems, they certainly aren't the only ones.
It should also be pointed out there are times when other reputable sports books also have had serious cash flow problems that no one ever hears about because other sports books pitch in to try and help their peers.

We hope SPORTSMARKET/ACES GOLD can recover from their current condition because it would leave another dark blemish in our industry if they cannot.

ACES Gold threatened law suit.

RESPONSE TO ACES SITUATION
----------------------------------------------

Today just shows that my sources were correct. Unfortunately, we had to retract that article because they threatened The Prescription in several ways. FURTHERMORE, I did leave the article up long enough for people who do read and value my opinions a window of opportunity to get their monies out. I also contacted other website owners and bookmakers so they could do their own due diligence.

Aces Gold/Sportsmarket called me many, many times to assure me that both players and bookmakers owed money would get paid promptly. I decided it would be in the best interest of everyone to remove that article, so everyone would get paid.
Obviously, THEY LIED. Many gamblers DID call me and email me, as well as bookmakers, and some were able to get their funds out in time.

There are important lessons to be learned by this situation and I wish to discuss more shortly.

Unfortunately I am away from my office right now and don't have a web connection that often.

I will address more soon

THE SHRINK

 

[kosar]

"Needless to say, The Prescription will be required reading from now on!"


Needless to say, you'll fit in great over there. Shrink only has the gamblers best interest in mind...LMFAO

Good luck!

 

[djv]

Well I'll be Kosar you just said something that I can say Amen to. I believe another problem is there is just to many out there. I would guess 30% maybe 40% are not in best of shape.

 

[kosar]

DJV,

Definitely too many out there, I agree. That's a big problem.

As far as 30-40% not being in the best of shape, well, I agree and I don't.

I guess it depends on what standard you're using. If you mean *every* online book in existence, I would agree. There are like 2100 of them, and between the scams (which Aces wasn't) and the ones that have no shot, 30-40% is probably about right.

But if you're talking about the prominent books that we know of, through the forums, word of mouth, whatever, I think that number would be much lower.

 

[Palmetto Pimp]

Crack rat ...you are bitching about something that probably wouldnt even matter. Say a week ago you saw this coming and tried to get your measly $200 back and warned other people about it and they tried to get their money back also. WHOS TO SAY ACES WOULDVE PAID ANYBODY?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[gamble]

Crack Rat,

If you were reading at RX at that time you would have also read this post from the SHRINK the next day;


I have spent most of the entire day talking with Charlie (from Sportsmarket) and other bookmakers that Sportsmarket does tranfers with...

I now know that there is NOT ONE sportsbook in the industry that has any problems with them and every gambler has been paid out in a timely manner.

It's a shame that a couple of individuals who I thought I could trust would tell me things about Sportsmarket & Aces Gold that aren't true.

I consider SPORTSMARKET to be a SOLID "out" that gamblers should consider when opening up an account offshore.

Just as a bookmaker can put out a "bad number" on a game and get "burnt" by doing so, I believe that the article that I wrote yesterday was "off" by about two touchdowns!

It was extremely unfair, and for that I apologize...

THE SHRINK


Which post would you believe? On top of all that several respected forums, posters, and sports book owners came out in defense of Sports Market/ Aces Gold.

SM had been offshore since 1995, one of the longest standing around. They had operated very successfully untill this past year and were considered to be one of the top offshore books.

 

[dr. freeze]

guys we need to take a deep breath......

warning signs were there......everyone is accountable for this....

it is no use slinging mud at people especially among people who are all hurt.....

best thing to do is to re-evaluate a lot of our personal decisions and after this step backwards decide to take two steps forward all the more wiser in our next endeavors.......

also: there are far worse things in this world and much more treacherous things could be affecting our lives financially and especially while we are at war....as far as we know, we could be breathing a small mushroom cloud from any one of terrorists remaining at large in our country.....as far as gambling goes, we all could lose all our money we have in the bank, take out 50 grand in loans and lose it all gambling in one night, bet all our property and lose it all, and still 3 years from now be among the top .01% of the wealthiest people to ever walk on this earth if we worked hard and had the average income of an ordinary Joe......

gotta be thankful for what we have in the midst of the storm......unfortunately, we live in a world where many people will do anything to cheat one another.......just gotta take it in the shorts and try to rise above it all......

 

[Junior44]

Gamble -

I'm not sure if you read this entire thread, but I believe Kosar presented Rx's "retraction" of it's original statement in his first post in this thread.

As far as Rx's position as a pioneer in releasing "cutting edge" information for the benefit of us automatons, I will only say that the general perception in the validity of such information, historically, is "mixed." To put it more bluntly, through the years, some of these reports have eventually proven to have merit, others have not.

As far as the Aces Gold scud that was dropped upon this industry today, let me share my opinion of it and the role the Rx played in what eventually went down. On Jan 9 (stage 1), it was reported that Aces was doomed, with the most stinging portion being, "SportsMarket/Aces Gold is in deep financial distress. Several sources close to The Prescription confirm this. Since the sources are other bookmakers who have asked not to be identified, we will honor those requests." Inevitably (and rightfully so), this was met by almost universal criticism from this industry as being a cheap shot and an unsolicted attack on a reputable book, albeit for many different reasons. Apparently, "sources" was too vague of a word and for "unknown reasons", the report was taken down (stage 2). Then, THE VERY NEXT DAY, we awaken to, not only a retraction, but a ringing endorsement of the exact same book that was raked across the coals the day before (stage 3). The last time that Aces was mentioned over there prior to day was in the extremely cryptic blurb, "I consider SPORTSMARKET (Aces Gold) to be a SOLID "out" that gamblers should consider when opening up an account offshore."

If anybody is still with me at this point, maybe they can answer me the following questions: How on earth can somebody who does a complete U-turn on a situation such as this, in less than 36 hours, be taken seriously? Why the sudden change in position? And, knowing what we all know now (that the original report had some merit), how could said reporter actually RECOMMMEND to his readers to post up there? If "sources" can be discredited in less than a day, what does this tell us about the sources in past and future reports?

I'm in no way suggesting that the Rx should be held accountable for what transpired today, but at the same time, let's not be so quick to roll out the red carpet and point fingers. Alot of people lost alot of money today and the general consensus I have got from people I've spoken with is it came as a total shock. As late as early this morning, Aces Gold banners could be seen waving at just about every gambling site around, including this one. As far as "endorsements" go, if Jack himself has a large balance at a book, that's pretty much all I need. I don't want to speak for him, put I don't thing he would mind me saying that if he forsaw ANY of this, this forum's readers would be the first to know.

 

[ctownguy]

Gamble -

As far as "endorsements" go, if Jack himself has a large balance at a book, that's pretty much all I need. I don't want to speak for him, put I don't thing he would mind me saying that if he forsaw ANY of this, this forum's readers would be the first to know.

This is the most intelligent thing that has been said concerning MJ and his involvement in the Aces Gold situation.

Does anyone honestly think if MJ knew something was up that he would allow himself to intentionally lose 5 figures. GET REAL

He was just as surprised as all of us, if he wasn't, why didn't he pull an ENRON DEAL and sell out early. I truly believe MJ has this site and its participant's well being first above all other interests and was backstabbed by Aces just as it happens so many times in business relationships.