i'll explain this for the 1000th time

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MadJack

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i don't let handicappers and competing sites post their link here and their email address here because i didn't spend 4+ years, thousands of dollars and thousands of hours building this site to where it is today, so some guy can come in here and get free advertising and an instant business/website for nothing.

it isn't RIGHT!

i spent a lot of time on this and it can't be done overnight. at least, not at my expense and experience it won't.

i've had other businesses in my life and have had many, many salesmen working for me. when they left the company, for whatever reason, i didn't allow them to take all of my customer records and files with them so they could open up and have instant success.

I didn't hang their shingle up next to mine and i didn't put them in my newspaper and television ads. wtf would i want to do that for?

this is no different at all! this is a business, believe it or not, and i'm going to run it like one. why should i let others succeed at MY expense? I'm NOT going to, period.

the pay service thing i attempted was in good faith. these guys have a talent that people WILL pay for. IF, they leave to start their own enterprise, why should *I* allow them to promote themselves for somebody else? WHY? you tell ME!

i took a chance, yes! but, these guys were going to be monitored by ME. there wasn't going to be any bullshit stories about how well they do. they agreed to be monitored by ME because i wouldn't have had it any other way. they KNEW what they can do and didn't want to bullshit anybody either. we had an understanding that we were going to run an HONEST service. something that some people WANT, believe it or not.

also, i wanted these guys to stay here because they draw a crowd. it's GOOD for me and madjacks to have people that draw a crowd. so, i approached them and made them an offer. sure, i would have made some money. big deal! at least they would have still been at madjacks. maybe they will still stay, i don't know, but the way i had it set up, they definitely would have stayed.

if they don't stay and they do go pay and they do open a site, i will NOT have them promoted here (see reasons above). I like them, i call them my friends and i hope they have success, but i am NOT going to help promote a competitor. simple as that. they won't post their web address and they won't post their email address on this forum and i won't send it to anybody privately, in email, so don't even ask.

it's business.

any questions?

-Jack
 

aldabra

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I personally saw nothing wrong with the pay site;especially if
you were monitoring...your integrity is beyond reproach..
you have the right to do whatever you wish with your site/business.I owned a retail business; it took 17 years
of my life to build it and finally sell it and retire.Every word you are saying is 1000% correct. Run it as you see fit; have fun,make
friends,and if you make a few bucks...so much the better...
in my opinion this is the premier sports info site...period..
 

SixFive

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Mar 12, 2001
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Totally agree about this being a business for u. Now, if u wanted to help out a friend by posting something for him, that would be your choice and perfectly fine. What separates this site from all the others is the pay site shills are not allowed and not tolerated. If the pay sites are trying to run a business, then they should have an advertising budget.
 

yyz

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Mar 16, 2000
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I guess I've missed a lot over the weekend!

Here's what I see:

Guys come and go from these site all of the time. Some have an agenda to post some winners, and then try to get people to pay. Some just want to post, and don't have the "pay for plays" thing in mind. Some are good, and then get told, "You should sell your plays!"

There are tons of scenarios that you can draw when it comes to this shit.

Personally, I don't blame anyone for trying to make a buck in this world, as long as it is honest! Too many of you guys see "service plays" as "scamdicapping". That is just not true.......some folks are legitimate, purs and simple.

Jack, I can see where you are coming from. You have a chance to retain some talented guys, and see some cash returnm, also. Business is business. If people think this is just a "hobby" for you, than they need to wake up!

If guys bust their asses putting numbers together, who is to say, "You owe us free shit!" They owe you/us nothing. This place has always been about free information, but I would have no problem if some guys wanted to be paid for their efforts. The rest of us can keep putting our spin up on plays, and the world will keep turning. I think the people who would cry about paying for a decent play, are people who would just bitch about anything, anyway.

Perhaps the prospect of getting paid for those efforts would entice some of you to ply your skills a little harder, or better. I don't have a perfect answer to this problem, but it is still your site, Jack, and I'm sure you will survive, no matter what decision you make.

Bottom line: This is a first class place, and Jack would only allow first rate people to post "pay-for-play" action. In other words......no one will be scammed.
 

Skinar

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yyz, that was a good post.

MJ, I think a lot of us over-reacted when we saw the pay-for-picks forums. I've read the story of how you started this site and I think it is fair to say that it has grown to something you did not anticipate. You grew because some of the guys you know happen to be damn good cappers and they posted a lot of free winners here and folks like me, who can't cap worth a shit, got used to coming here for freebies. Then, unfortunately, some assholes would crap on the good cappers from time to time because they had a losing day thus leading to some conflict. I, for one, do not like to provide a service to someone for free, then have them give me a ration of shit because it did not turn out exactly how they wished. It is my humble opinion that some form of compensation must be in place prior to any complaints being lodged - but that's just me.

(Damn, I gotta leave for a little while. I have more to say.)
 

Skinar

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... to finish my thoughts

... to finish my thoughts

So, where am I going with this? It seems to me that things have changed a great deal from the original vision that MJ had for this site (please correct me if I'm wrong MJ). When things change in business, a business must either respond or their competition will. Here's what I propose - MJ, you know how to run an internet site, that has been proven. Why not start another domain (like bestbettor.com) that is a PAY SITE for guys like fletcher, hoops, JT, and whoever else can cut the mustard? MJ, you monitor the site and make sure the touts are on the up and up. MJ, you make some money for providing the site AND you provide a link from your free site.

That way you maintain the integrity of the original vision, MadJack's FREE forums for everyone to enjoy and use. PLUS, you use your expertise and your reputation to provide a safe haven paying site for those folks who feel the need for those services. Those folks who don't like paying for picks can merely NOT access the pay site. It's a matter of choice and free will at that point.

Hell, I might buy some picks myself.

:)

Skinar
 

ferdville

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Skinar - great plan. That would certainly solve part of the problem. But the whiners and moaners would still complain that they are getting fletcher's 4 stars and not his 5 stars. would mean that they would only be able to post on pay site - and that would be fine with me!

MJ- we would all like to see you make a buck, too! Give it some thought. Open up a thread for the idea. Of course, this assumes that the 3 cappers would agree.
 

Skinar

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ferdville - thanks. The whiners and moaners are going to whine and moan unless somebody gives them a ton of winners for free, EVERY SINGLE DAY!! Especially on the TV games!!

If I were one of the Three Amigos (fletch, hoops, sneaks - sorry guys, hope you still have a sense of humor), I would tell everyone here to phuck off!! Why should I come in here, bust my balls, post winners, then catch a ration of shit from some greenhorn who couldn't make money gambling if you gave him 75% winners every day for a year?

The more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to like the idea of getting picks via e-mail, early in the day, from these guys. It sure would simplify my day.
 
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