Illinios at Minnesota

StuckinNJ

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THIS POST IS NO LONGER APPLICABLE - IGNORE


So, twice (and only recently) beaten Minnesota is hosting Illinois this weekend. Looks like another boring Big 10 mismatch that only folks who have already dug their jackets out from the bottom of the hall closet would be interested in. Well, it?s still warm in God?s Country, but I am interested in it anyway and here is why.

Minnesota appears to be having a decent season so far. Heck, it was a great season until they ran into those teams from Michigan in the last couple of weeks. As it stands, they are 5-2 and have outscored their opponents 234-160 (and 51 of that 160 came from the Green S?s). Cupito is healthy, if badly named, and the running game is chugging along nicely without having to depend overly on just one carrier. As a result, they are ranked second among Division 1-A schools in total yards gained and only recently dropped from the Top 25.

On the other hand, Illinois is 2-5 and must be feeling that ?Here we go again? feeling we all associate with Illinois football. Jeez, they are even 0-4 in the Big 10. Definitely ?Here we go again?. To that, add 109th in total defense? Man, oh man is this weekend going to be ugly.

Could be, but I'm not thinking so.

Minnesota may indeed have a good offense. They more or less beat the stuffing out of Toledo, Illinois St, Colorado St, Northwestern and Penn St. In fact, the aggregate score for those games was 193-82. Not a very impressive list, though, and a closer look shows that only Toledo has a winning record (5-2 with wins over E Michigan, W Michigan, Temple, Ball St and Ohio). When Minnesota had to face opponents currently possessing winning records (Michigan and Michigan St, and Michigan St was 3-3 at the time), look what happens:
HTML:
                         First 5 games      Last 2
Avg Rushing Yards	     329	     146
Avg Passing Yards 	     187	     184
Avg Points Scored	      39	      21
Avg Points Yeilded	      16	      39
I?m sure we?ll all agree that even with Barry Bonds-sized dosages of undetectable performance enhancing drugs, Michigan St could not repeat its performance of last weekend (they did lose to Rutgers, after all), but I don?t think you can discount it either. When Minnesota?s collective brain is WAFU, as it usually is after a Michigan loss, anything bad can happen.

And another thing ? Minnesota has been abysmal on defense. Even though they are 5-2 and recently of the top 25, their defense has given up over 3000 yards so far (present discussion of the Illinois game aside, imagine how they are going to end up, since they still have Wisconsin and Iowa to go). They rank 106th out of the 117 Division 1-A schools. If you adjust for their last 2 games and just give them their average yardages yielded over the first 5 games, they would still rank 91st. Their only saving grace this weekend is that, at 109th, Illinois has been more abysmaller.

At least that?s the way it looks initially, but look closer. Illinois is 2-5 overall and 0-4 in the Big 10. Their 2 wins were against 1-AA Florida A&M and against 1-5 MAC powerhouse Western Michigan (hey, at least they?ve beaten SOMEONE from Michigan). Obviously, there?s not a lot of credit to be given for Illinois?s wins. But look at their losses. UCLA (17-35), Purdue (30-38), Wisconsin (7-24), Michigan St (25-38) and Michigan (19-30). First, every one of those teams has a winning record at this point. What we have is a situation where the better looking team (Minnesota) with the winning record has beaten 1 team with a winning record and the worse looking team (Illinois) has only lost to teams with winning records (2 with 1 loss and 1 undefeated at that). Second, let me point out that the 18 points that Illinois is getting against Minnesota would have been enough to prevent any of these losses (I leave it up to others to argue that Minnesota is better than every one of these teams). Oh, and one other thing before I move on to actually trying to figure out what is going to happen rather than try to justify why you should even look at this game. Illinois, yes 2-5 Illinois, has that 27th ranked total offense. Are you confident that if the Minnesota and Illinois schedules were reversed, Minnesota could do as well?

So these types of things are what got me a-ganderin? this game that I would normally have absolutely no interest in. My methodology for handicapping games is as follows. I only look at games between teams in the same conference, and only after they have had a chance to play a few conference games. I look at how a team?s offense has plays against their opponent?s defense (with their personnel at the time) and try to project their general offensive stats (with the current personnel). I then look at how successful the team has been, in conference play, at converting stats to points and how pig-headed the coach is about their offensive strategy. From this, I attempt to predict how many points a team will score. I am limited to doing this only for games later in the season and for teams which have already played ?similar? conference opponents. So here we go.

Minnesota should be able to rush to their heart?s content against Illinois and in games against poor rush defenses, Cupito has usually been able to capitalize with a couple of TD passes. If we assume that Minnesota puts up 300 yards rushing and Cupito comes in with 2 TDs and 0 INTs, and that Minnesota continues to be a little worse than average at converting passing yards to points, I estimate this performance to be worth 27-42 points.

Illinois should also be able to rush at will. There is a big difference, though, between the Illinois and the Minnesota coaching style. If Illinois can rush successfully, then they tend to rush. Minnesota has Pat Hill Syndrome (they insist on attacking the opponent?s defensive strength). Illinois should control the ball better in this game than they have in any of their 4 conference losses and hold down scoring a bit. Furthermore, while Illinois does rush when they can, the best indicator of their score has been the strength of the opposing pass defense. The Minnesota pass defense is significantly worse than any of the conference pass defenses Illinois has faced so far, by an average of 90 yards per game (for completeness?s sake, the Minnesota rush defense is about 45 yards per game worse). Based on all of this, I blindly guess that Illinois will put up about 200 yards rushing and 250 yards passing, with 2 TD?s and an INT. Illinois has been about average at converting passing yards to points, so I figure that Illinois will put up about 23-35 points.

So where does this all lead? Illinois has played just fine on the road and I can?t see the Minnesota home field advantage materializing in this game since Minnesota is, for all intents and purposes, out of the Big 10 championship picture. It looks to me like Minnesota should be roughly a 5-6 point favorite. Taking Illinois and getting 18 seems like a good deal to me. This is a 1 unit bet, as I am at the earliest point in the season that I handicap games this way. If I?m correct, that?s great and if I?m wrong, I?m man enough to admit that you were foolish to listen to me.

One caveat, if Turner makes one of those ?let?s make the future now since all else is lost? decisions and starts Chris Pazan, all bets are off.
 
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redsfann

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That would be one big caveat if Mason was to start Pazan, seeing as Pazan plays for the Illini and Mason coaches the Gophers....:D

Minnesota rolls it up against a pathetic Illinois squad this weekend. Good luck with your play, though...
 

StuckinNJ

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Good Point. Make that Turner.

Now that I have that straightened out, could you elaborate on exactly why Illinois is pathetic in terms of who/how they've played this season, or conversely how Minnesota is much better in terms of who/how they've played? This info could save me a bit if the line rises - it opened at 20, so it probably will not, but just in case...
 
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greed

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Illinois

Illinois

I would be leary of taking a QB who is starting his first game on the road. I had Illinois myself last week as they were in a good spot with Michigan coming off a big win versus Minnesota and a look ahead to Purdue. Michigan pounded the ball at the Illini and wore them down. Minnesota was in a major letdown after losing to Michigan. Stats may be deceiving in when a team is playing a certain team. This will probably be the first team that will actually be up for playing Illinois. There was a reason why this line came out at 20. Good luck on your play this week.
 

StuckinNJ

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Greed,

I'm not sure I follow you. Beutjer has started every game except that one Bower started early on, including road starts at Wisconsin and at Michigan State.

You are right about Michigan last week pounding the ball and I expect Minnesota will do the same. Illinois lost to Michigan by 11, right? After leading at halftime, and being within a TD until halfway through the 4th quarter, right? I think implicit in your post is the belief that Minnesota can stop Illinois - a belief I don't currently share.

If Minnesota was in for a major letdown after losing to Michigan, will they be pumped up and ready after getting crushed by Michigan State and being practically eliminated in the Big 10 race? Why would they be "up" for the game after blowing their season in the last 2 games? Especially when it is beginning to dawn on them that they are probably going to lose at least 2 more. That's a long drop from Rose Bowl talk just week before last.

Illinois has averaged 20 points against their Big 10 opponents (which I think are seen as comparable to Minnesota), while Minnesota averaged 39 against their pre-Michigan opponents (which I figured would be not counted as Michigan is seen as much better than Illinois and the Michigan State result was an anomaly). Not much of a HFA to be expected this week. That is the reason I think the line opened at 20.

The reason I picked this game to write up is that while most folks will be on Minnesota, there is a huge difference between the perceived strenghts and weaknesses of these 2 teams and the derived strengths and weaknesses from this year's stats. I think I'm getting good value in taking the 18 points. That said, I'm never shocked to see that my thoughts didn't pan out in any particular game, and won't be this time if it goes against me.
 

BleedDodgerBlue

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Beutjer suspended for this weekends game. He won't play. Not sure why, think its disciplinary. Heard it on radio today.

Either way, I can't see Illinois staying within this number, but might lay off the game. I can see a 35+ point win for Minnesota.

Nonethless, great write up and good luck on your play.
 

StuckinNJ

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I take it all back...

I take it all back...

I ended my initial post with "One caveat, if Turner makes one of those ?let?s make the future now since all else is lost? decisions and starts Chris Pazan, all bets are off."

Tonight, off of the AP (6:00 pm, lifted from the San Jose Mercury News)

Posted on Mon, Oct. 18, 2004

Turner benches Beutjer; will choose new QB this week

JIM PAUL

Associated Press


CHAMPAIGN, Ill. - Jon Beutjer is out as Illinois' starting quarterback, and his replacement at Minnesota on Saturday won't be decided until later in the week, coach Ron Turner said Monday.

Chris Pazan, Brad Bower and Tim Brasic will compete in practice for the chance to start against the Gophers, the coach said.

"We just feel they deserve a shot at it," said Turner, whose coaching future is the subject of growing speculation.

Beutjer, a senior who has started 20 games in three seasons, was benched after a poor second-half against 14th-ranked Michigan on Saturday. He led the Illini to two first-half touchdowns, but threw his first three interceptions of the season as a 17-10 halftime lead vanished.

Michigan won 30-19, sending the Illini to their fifth loss this season and running their Big Ten losing streak to 12 games.

"We've got to play better at the quarterback position to win football games consistently," Turner said.

Beutjer wasn't available to comment Monday, the team's day off from practice, a team spokesman said. His telephone number is not listed.

Turner said he told the players of his decision on Sunday.

"Jon was disappointed, of course," Turner said. "Hopefully, we'll make a decision on who gives us the best chance to win and that young man will go out there and play great football and we won't have to talk about this again."

Beutjer has started six games this season and is 92-for-157 for 926 yards and six touchdowns. He missed the Sept. 18 game after bruising his sternum against UCLA the preceding week.

Bower, a redshirt freshman, played the second half of the 35-17 loss to UCLA and started against Western Michigan, leading the Illini to a 30-27 comeback win. Bower also played briefly against Wisconsin on Oct. 4, and is 24-for-43 for 321 yards and one touchdown in three games.

Pazan, a sophomore, relieved Bower against Wisconsin and replaced Beutjer in the third quarter the following week at Michigan State. He is 12-for-21 for 115 yards and one touchdown.

"We've given them more reps (in practice) the last couple weeks and it's really improved how good those guys are," Turner said.

Brasic, also a sophomore, has not played this season. He was 0-for-1 in two brief appearances last season.

The quarterback shuffle is "just part of the game," said center Duke Preston.

"You've got to do your job, and if the job's not being done you look other places," he said.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thanks for the heads-up BleedDodgerBlue. As Rosanne Rosanna-Danna said - "Never Mind." Illinois might still cover, but my analysis is no longer valid. It seems a bit strange, though, that the line has not moved at all in response (it has been in the 18 range since last night), unless somehow the books got ahold of info not made public yet, but that would mean...Nah, nevermind.
 
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CWood97

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Lean to Minny for me. They recovered quite nicely after the Wolverines beat them twice last year.
 

greed

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Minnesota will be up for this game after the major embarrasement last week. Always a tendency to let down after a major loss like that to Michigan. There is a major trend when a team loses their first game later in the season they normally tank it their next game. Illinois got to play Wisconsin without Davis. Last week the Illini caught a break when they had a big interception. Michigan should have won big. The Illini are terrible against the spread the last few years because they have a tendency to quit when they are behind. I am not critcizing your play just stating an opinion. I try giving information like the Illini starting a different QB for the game. Good luck on all your plays this weekend!
 

Hailing Victor

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Michigan has beaten Minnesota for the last 11 times. Minnesota has lost the game after Michigan the last 11 times!! Wish i would have read that little stat before I picked Minny last week. F'n gophers, they better cover this week, because I am loading up on them big. Illinois cant stop the run between the tackles. The counters and traps that Minny run will decimate the Illinois D-line. With Beutjer gone, no 2 years experience in hostile environment for the otherwise dismal Illinois offense. Still,l ILL Secondary isn't horrible and will probably be good for the 3-7 pts off turnovers/interceptions. That's probably all they will get since they will try to run the ball most of the game or short high % passes. You can bet they Minny D cordinator had a lot to say after last week. The Defense doesn't want another lower Big 10 team to embarass them. They will be pumped at home. If Minny doesnt win by 18 I will be shocked. BUT I was shocked last week too. If you are still scared like I am take the 6 pt teaser with Iowa because they wont lose by more than a TD to Penn St.


Theres my two cents
 

Kdogg21

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i would go with minnesota. Illini can't stop the run, Turner stating the radio today, he is gonna go with some young guys as well. fans are more worried about how the B-ball team is gonna do
 
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