John Ruiz vs Roy Jones

Junior44

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Just wanted to open up the discussion on what I think is one of the most compelling fights to come along in quite some time. This is NOT comparable to Michael Spinks moving up to fight Larry Holmes. Jones is a natural middleweight who has been fighting at 175 and will probably come into this fight weighing about 40 pounds less than Ruiz. Granted, Ruiz isn't exactly a "great" fighter, but he's still a solid top-10 heavyweight and tough as nails.

This is a very difficult fight to even do a write-up or make a prediction on because there are SO many variable. I go back and forth on who I think will win this fight basically because I can't give a definative answer to a number of questions (most of them concerning Jones). Ruiz is pretty much the only constant.

1. How much speed will Jones lose (if any) coming in at around 190-194. This is probably Jones' greatest strength. Will it be affected? And if so, by how much?

2. Can Jones take a punch from a true heavyweight?

3. Jones has never been a big puncher. Will his power increase along with the gain in weight?

4. Jones has never really been in serious trouble in his career (hell, he's barely even been hit). How will he react if Ruiz catches him with a bomb and hurts him?

5. If Jones doesn't lose much speed, how on earth will Ruiz even catch him in the first place?

These are tough questions to answer. I'm of the belief that a smart, skillful boxer will beat a puncher more times than not, and Jones certaintly has the skill. But, the weight difference is so dramatic, maybe it won't matter. I see 2 COMPLETELY different scenarios happening in this fight.

#1 - Jones comes out and basically takes Ruiz to school. Complete "punch and get out" strategy. Jones stays outside and peppers Ruiz the entire fight and Ruiz completely whiffs trying to hit Jones. Never comes close to hitting him with a good shot. I can see him missing with a big overhand right, Jones ducking, and nailing him with about 5 or 6 shots before Ruiz's arm returns to it's socket. Ruiz takes a brutal beating and Jones either takes him out in the later rounds or wins a lopsided decision.

#2 - The weight and strength differences are way too much and it's an obvious mismatch from the very beginning. Ruiz tosses Jones around the ring like a rag doll. Jones hits him with a few shots that barely even phases Ruiz. Ruiz is on top of him the whole fight, pushing him up against the ropes and hammering him with huge shots. And when Ruiz connects, it will be nothing remotely similar to anything Roy has ever been hit with. A round or 2 of this and Ruiz pummels him into oblivion.

Man, just typing this write-up is getting me fired up. Can't wait for this fight. Anybody? Comments?
 

badjab

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Roy Jones used to be one of those fighters who could go the night without getting touched. In the most recent fights I've seen him in (starting with Montell Griffin I), Roy has been getting hit and laying on the ropes a lot. I doubt that his speed will improve any by going up in weight. I think Ruiz will be able to find Roy and get him in trouble. I choose option #2. This is quite a big step (much bigger than Trinidad moving up to fight Hopkins). I gotta go with the Quiet (big) man.
 

fletcher

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got to look at the true hwt first, he is not fun to watch but throws a very heavy punch and hard body shots. the wht will make it tuff on jones speed and legs that he has picked up.

then big john will be able to tie him up just because of strength and when and he will lay on jones that will take even more steam out of legs. Then we get to the ropes he gets jones there and lands those hard body shots jones will think his kidney is sliding out his ass.

ruiz is also tuff to hit never really takes many clean shots and if he gets jones on the button i think the room will spin for jones like he just drank a bottle of mad dog 2020.

30-40 pounds of true weight is alot to over come i have to look at the + price first. props might be good but have to start with + price for true hwt and a good one at that he is no can, boreing to watch but knows how to fight and makes angles very hard when it comes to hit him. i think he is under rated because of his style. But he has hurt some good fighters.

don't think chicken chasing will help jones might do better letting a friend wack him across the head and grill everyday with a pillow filled with sand. because he has not seen strenght and power that he will see in this fight.
 

Junior44

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Very good points. bjab - yeah, I'm aware that Jones has been doing a little rope-a-dope in his last few fights, but I think this is more the results of a combination of being bored and knowing his opponent can't really hurt him. I think it's safe to assume that Jones won't be looking to lay on the ropes in this one, BUT he might just try and stand in there and try and trade with him. Fletch, I agree....Ruiz is much better fighter than he's given credit for. He's not flashy or cocky but he's a far cry from being a tomato can.

No matter how much I think Jones' skill and speed will help him win this fight, I just can't escape the thought of Ruiz landing a few solid shots. There is a big difference between fighting an 160-lb Thomas Tate and having a 230-lb man clenching and dragging on you. I think the fact that Jones has never had to overcome adversity in any of his fights is going to hurt him alot if and when Ruiz lands a few haymakers.
 

gardenweasel

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guys-take a step back and catch your breath...

guys-take a step back and catch your breath...

before we anoint ruiz as this monster puncher,tough guy,take a good look at this "heavyweight champion`s" record prior to the first holifield bout.....somebody explain to me how this guy ever got a heavyweight championship bout....who had he beaten?....he couldn`t beat a mediocre dannell nicholson,tua blew him out in one round....where`s lennox,where`s the klitscko`s?.......chris byrd?...tyson?....for god`s sake,even a golota..lawrence clay-bey?....oquendo?......goofi whitaker.....even rahman or botha.....punching bag oleg maskaev.....(i`m scraping the bottom of the barrel)....how do you get to a championship fight without beating ONE of these guys...why hasn`t he avenged the tua loss?.....for god`s sake,get revenge for losing to dannell nicholson...

you know why these guys aren`t on his resume?....because his people know the guy is a fraud..after the tua fight,the lightbulb in their brain`s came on bigtime.... ..he is a microcosm of everything that`s wrong with boxing today...one of the most protected buffoons to come down the pike in a very long time.....he`s a cross between chuck wepner and duane bobick....

he somehow gets a championship bout with an evander holifield that`s 3 to 4 years past his prime and is one fight vs a big hard punching heavyweight away from being seriously injured....

then he gets in with a fat,out of shape kirk johnson,and needed to roll on the canvas like the big pussy he is to win that bout...fellow latino joe cortez figured heavily in that one(and so did don king,i`d venture to guess)...

now,the brave one shows how truly valiant he is by getting in with a blown up middleweight.....and,here`s the kicker,he`s the underdog!!!!

please guys....he may beat jones just by overwhelming him with his bulk.....but,a top 5 heavyweight?....put the sauce down...both klitschko`s,byrd,lennox,tua,even tyson beat him easily.....and he`s not even the best puerto rican heavyweight....oquendo is way more talented than ruiz...he had tua beat until he ran into the big shot....

this guy`s handlers should be inducted into the boxing hall of fame,yesterday.....

here`s hoping that skill can beat awkward size in this one...i`m sure jones` people(if they are smart-and i think they are) are all over the powers that be regarding the inevitable roughhouse tactics and fouling that will be used by ruiz....

expect ruiz to maul jones and use his patented"one punch and clinch and wrestle" tactic to it`s fullest extent....

i admit i`m biased against ruiz...that`s because i see him as a blight on boxing...a heavyweight champ that has a legit win over no one...fight one of the legit heavyweights....get a legit win over one of the semi-legit heavyweights...please

no disrespect,guys...i totally respect your opinions....but,when it comes to ruiz,i`ve got a sore spot....no,i`d call it more of an abscess:rolleyes: .....i will weigh in on a side later on...i have to try and become a little more objective on this one before i start throwing money around.....g.l. ;)
 
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Junior44

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GW - I really cannot argue with any of your points and I agree that if Ruiz hadn't won errrrrrrrrrrr........lost to Holyfield in their first fight, we probably wouldn't be hearing much about him today. But, the guy is still a 230-lb man with "some" boxing skills........at least enough to floor Holyfield (albiet a past-his-prime one)......kinda like Wepner flooring Ali. :eek: I still think he is a Top-10 heavyweight though.......which isn't exactly saying alot in that atrocity of a division.

I feel the same way about Chris Byrd that you do about Ruiz. Very similar resumes and very similarly handled. Only impressive win for him was over Tua, who fought perhaps the worst fight of all time that night. Lost to Wlad Klitchko, was losing to Vitaly Klitschko before he blew out his shoulder, lost to Ibeabuchi. Most impressive win is probably a toss up between Phil Jackson and Levi Billups.

Here's a good question: Who would win in a fight between Ruiz and Byrd? Kind of interesting because of the striking similarities in style between Byrd and Jones. And for the sake of arguement, I think Jones crushes Byrd if they fought. Anyways, should be interesting to say the least.

Man.......The Bayonne Bleeder. Had to really crank my memory back for that one.
 

gardenweasel

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jr

jr

some good points....i actually admire byrd and what he`s accomplished....he`s not gonna hurt anybody,but defensively,he`s fantastic....

he really isn`t a truly legit heavyweight by today`s size standards......and what he basically does on offense is fight an amateur style fight...by that i mean he fights to score points,not necessarily to inflict punishment...

the difference between byrd and ruiz?....in my opinion there are several;
1)skill-byrd is a defensive wizard...how else could you fight and beat so many bigger guys......his heart is plenty big...as you said,he was struggling with the older klitschko....it was very much like david vs goliath...but,before klitschko quit,byrd did start to turn the tables a bit(although you could argue that it was due to klitscko`s injury)...that`s the knock on the klitschko`s...when the going gets tough,the klitschko`s get going(in the opposite direction)...i think the klit brothers have more heart than they are given credit for,though..but,all their fights are one-sided...lewis and the younger klit appear to be head and shoulders above the rest

2)level of opposition-byrd fights everybody...the klitschko`s,a monster in ike ibeabuchi(who,if he weren`t nuts,might be the champ right now),tua,....he actually wanted lewis,but lewis nixed the fight

i know that styles make fights,but,byrd embarrassed holifield...ruiz was life and death with holi...i doubt that we`ll ever see byrd and ruiz in the ring...i`m beginning to doubt that we`ll ever see ruiz in the ring with any top 5 guys.....

but,i could be wrong....now that ruiz has reached this level,and with so many guys saying how tough and gritty he is based on 3 fights with a half dead holifield and a disqualification win over kirk johnson,he may cash his chips in on one big fight with lewis(if he can get it)...

i may be completely wrong on ruiz....he may be this awkward,clever guy that really maximizes the little skill he has and just finds ways to win...but,my beef is,lets see it...fight the top guys....show some byrd-like cojones....

do any of us really believe roy jones would have a chance vs a klitschko or a lewis...i think we all know,those fights will never happen...so,why is heavyweight champ ruiz any different?....why is he an underdog in this bout vs a guy 40 pounds lighter?....we all know vegas isn`t stupid...

i have to admit that when this came out at jones -170or -180(i`ll have to check),i hit it...i didn`t really analyze it in my usual manner....didn`t talk to many of my friends.....my anti-ruiz bias got the best of me...not smart on my part...

i would bet byrd in a heartbeat over ruiz,to answer your question....that`s just my opinion...and as i said,i don`t see as clearly as i`d like when ruiz is involved...

wouldn`t put much stock in my opinion on this one...i`m not objective enough....and it looks like yourself and fletch lean ruiz..

g.l. junior....great to have another boxing guy in the mix...
 
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gardenweasel

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another ruiz backer

another ruiz backer

max kellerman from espn 2....he also thinks the size difference is to much...i`m beginning to feel lonely...:nono: :D
 

badjab

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quotes

quotes

I've got to work the body. Sooner or later, he?ll be dropping his hands. The body work is going to be the thing. If I can?t work the body, it?ll be a decision. If I do get to work the body, it?ll definitely by a KO.
-- John Ruiz

John Ruiz is a dangerous bear. He can hurt me. I understand that. But I've accomplished all I could at light heavyweight. The people were tired of watching races between a Porsche and a VW..
-- Roy Jones, Jr.

my two cents...
forget about the weight differential, Ruiz has a seven inch reach advantage.
 

gardenweasel

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junior...are you mr cleo?

junior...are you mr cleo?

because i just saw chris byrd on the jimmy kimmel show,and he said that he fights the winner of ruiz-jones....man,did you hear something,or are you just clairvoyant?....:confused: :shrug: :D
 

fletcher

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I am glad Jr is back him and i a few years ago made some great cash working as a team. We put one hell of a run together going with pros and cons and made sure each other were not over reading somethin or missing out on something. I like having you and bad jab also. gw you and i did good last year some where else working things out.

my email is easy to find hint look at links and then above at top.

don't let my thoughts sway you i might have it played different then you think. I have bigger fights on under card and fri.

Jr it really is good to have you back:)
 

Got5onIt

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Don't forget Roy Jones is VERY cautious with his opponents. He would not put himself in a situation where he even has a tiny chance of losing. Paper champ Quiet Boy is the perfect opponent for Roy to have his way with.
Jones by unanimous decision.

I'd love to see Chris Byrd vs Roy Jones! That would be a great fight.
 

gardenweasel

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one more thing

one more thing

this is why i hate to make a definitive play before seeing as much as possible....

i have been reading some stories in which roy jones has shown some concern regarding the inevitable ruiz roughhouse tactics....and how he`ll have "his boys" at ringside in case things get ugly...??????????...what the hell does that mean?....a gang fight?....this isn`t south central....

also,roy is very close to gerald mcclellan(permanently injured in the ring,in very bad shape)....and he talks often about how your life is on the line in the ring....and more so,leading up to this fight....

i`m beginning to wonder if roy`s losing his mental edge leading up to the fight...he hasn`t really been pushed since james toney and hopkins....and truthfully,they weren`t physically difficult or draining fights....roy has really never taken much punishment in the ring..

could roy cut and run if things get nasty,as they surely will vs ruiz.....i`m beginning to wonder...

one thing i do know....we`ll find out a lot about roy`s heart and brain in this fight....will he be mentally tough enough after so many easy bouts....

i`m hoping that a chance to make history will be motivation enough....

and as fletch said,just because this is a high profile fight,doesn`t mean it`s the best value gambling wise...just take a look at the boxing slate over at olympic.....lot`s of interesting bouts coming up...and i see several that look like very live dogs and a few small favorites...

it`s fairly easy to pick favorites in boxing...you might even hit a streak and win some money...but,if you hit a few big losers,you can spend a long time digging yourself out...as we saw with tim austin vs rafael marquez...

there`s a fight that i haven`t seen odds posted on yet(it`s in the odds yet to be posted section at oly) that really intrigues me...if we can get favorable odds,i`ll post it as soon as i can so it won`t lose value...

again,be careful betting big fights just because of the emotion involved...there will be plenty of action coming in march and april....a final comment and play on jones and ruiz is forthcoming...
 

Junior44

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Re: junior...are you mr cleo?

Re: junior...are you mr cleo?

gardenweasel said:
because i just saw chris byrd on the jimmy kimmel show,and he said that he fights the winner of ruiz-jones....man,did you hear something,or are you just clairvoyant?....:confused: :shrug: :D

LOL.....Actually, I hadn't heard anything about that. Basically brought Byrd up because of his obvious similarities in style with Jones. If that fight happens, it would either be a really great fight or the most boring fight in history with both guys standing there waiting to counterpunch.......lol.

I think one of the most telling signs for this fight will be the weigh in. I wanna see these guys actually standing next to each other. I haven't seen Jones lately, but the guy has very skinny legs.......Hell, he might have put some serious meat on up top. I guess we shall see........
 

TheShrimp

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Not much to add here. Good stuff.

I'm not much of a Ruiz fan either. I'd have both Klit's, Lewis, Tyson, Rahman, Tua, and a couple others ahead of him. (johnson, byrd). His win over hOlyfield was questionable, and holyfield has won 2 of his last 7, including one against Ruiz and the early stoppage against Rahman. That's a faded faded old chap.

But, I'm on Ruiz +150. Punching power is simply too disparate in this one. Ruiz is going to be fighting his normal fight but I think RJJ is in a different world with this one -- a stronger, heavier opponent than he's used to seeing.

Obviously he has a speed advantage (hands AND feet), but he's got to get in range to use it. This sniping style he sometimes employs won't cut it against Ruiz who covers up well, and will take a hit and just keep coming. I think he has a legit shot of being able to corner Jones and that spells trouble.

Ruiz has a 4 inch reach advantage (78 - 74). Of course with Ruiz' style (if you could call it "style") he lets guy get in close. If RJJ tries to stick and move, I think Ruiz is skilled enough to pop him and grab him and make things tough. He's made plenty of slick guys look stuck in the mud before and I don't know why this should be a lot different.

I don't think RJJ has a chance of an early knockout and a long fight is going to benefit the bigger guy. Ruiz can go long too, witness the 3 against Holyfield.

Don't forget, he did put the very tough jawed Holyfield on the canvas.

He certainly has a legitimate shot against the more skillful and quicker fighter, so give me the bigger man at 3/2.
 

Junior44

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Just watched a pretty good segment on The Best Damn Sports Show. Guests were Vernon Forrest, Chris Byrd, Ray Mancini, and Rock Newman.

Mancini: Likes Ruiz, said that the weight difference will be too great.

Forrest: Says that the best fighter will win. That it's wrong to assume Ruiz has a significant advantage due to being heavier.

Rock Newman: "Jones is one of the best fighters of this era and of all time"

Byrd: In my opinon, this is the guy most qualified to render a prediction. He said that the difference between a middleweight's punch and a heavyweight's punch is HUGE. Quote, "I've been hit by both and trust me.......Heavyweights hit MUCH hard......big big difference." Also said that Lewis is scared to fight him and that if the fight ever happened, he would make Lewis look foolish.
 

gardenweasel

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i really admire byrd

i really admire byrd

but,i was totally stumped by his take on the fight...jones just may be the only guy around now that is a better pure boxer than byrd.....byrd has made a career out of beating guys much,much bigger than himself....remember,byrd was a middleweight also in the amateurs...i wonder if byrd is secretly hoping ruiz wins,so that he doesn`t face the prospect of fighting a guy that`s better than him at what he does best.....the inference from byrd(in my eyes)is,"hey,i can outbox and outcute these bigger guys,but you can`t".... ..just a thought...
 
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Junior44

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Good point GW. Another scenario is that Byrd really does think Jones will win but he's saying on the record that he leans to Ruiz so when Jones beats him it will seem more of an accomplishment which, of course, makes a Jones/Byrd fight that much more of an attraction.

Somebody (I think Newman) was talking about the possibility of a Jones/Tyson fight (if Jones beats Ruiz). Despite his shortcomings and diminished skills, Tyson is STILL the biggest draw in boxing. I'm thinking that a Jones vs Tyson matchup would be quite large.

I don't know about anybody else, but I'm looking forward to this fight almost as much as the Tyson/Lewis bout. I also agree that things could get ugly in there. I see Ruiz (at least trying) to bully Jones around the ring and Jones isn't exactly the "cleanest" fighter in the world. I just hope the damn thing goes longer than 49 seconds.
 

gardenweasel

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junior

junior

did you see the press conference?....with ruiz in the pimp-suit?.....then he starts yelling"where`s my b-tch?...where`s my b-tch?"....obviously talking about jones.......old cornermen throwing down?......man,regardless of which side you come down on,this ones gonna be be wild...i swear,if something off the wall doesn`t happen on fight night,that will shock me....this is"must see t.v.":D
 
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