Let's Go - It's time to get this done...

Englishman

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 20, 2003
2,268
26
0
Lincoln Park, New Jersey
We need to get this done now, while we still have someone with courage in the White House. We need to wipe out anyone who would kill Americans and our allies. No more Mr. Nice Guy with these sub-humans:

Journalist: U.S. planning for possible attack on Iran
White House says report is 'riddled with inaccuracies'

Sunday, January 16, 2005 Posted: 9:23 PM EST (0223 GMT)


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Bush administration has been carrying out secret reconnaissance missions to learn about nuclear, chemical and missile sites in Iran in preparation for possible airstrikes there, journalist Seymour Hersh said Sunday.

The effort has been under way at least since last summer, Hersh said on CNN's "Late Edition."

In an interview on the same program, White House Communications Director Dan Bartlett said the story was "riddled with inaccuracies."

"I don't believe that some of the conclusions he's drawing are based on fact," Bartlett said.

Iran has refused to dismantle its nuclear program, which it insists is legal and is intended solely for civilian purposes. (Full story)

Hersh said U.S. officials were involved in "extensive planning" for a possible attack -- "much more than we know."

"The goal is to identify and isolate three dozen, and perhaps more, such targets that could be destroyed by precision strikes and short-term commando raids," he wrote in "The New Yorker" magazine, which published his article in editions that will be on newsstands Monday.

Hersh is a veteran journalist who was the first to write about many details of the abuses of prisoners Abu Ghraib in Baghdad.

He said his information on Iran came from "inside" sources who divulged it in the hope that publicity would force the administration to reconsider.

"I think that's one of the reasons some of the people on the inside talk to me," he said.

Hersh said the government did not answer his request for a response before the story's publication, and that his sources include people in government whose information has been reliable in the past.

Hersh said Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld view Bush's re-election as "a mandate to continue the war on terrorism," despite problems with the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

Last week, the effort to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq -- the Bush administration's stated primary rationale for the war -- was halted after having come up empty.

The secret missions in Iran, Hersh said, have been authorized in order to prevent similar embarrassment in the event of military action there. (Full story)

"The planning for Iran is going ahead even though Iraq is a mess," Hersh said. "I think they really think there's a chance to do something in Iran, perhaps by summer, to get the intelligence on the sites."

He added, "The guys on the inside really want to do this."

Hersh identified those inside people as the "neoconservative" civilian leadership in the Pentagon. That includes Rumsfeld, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Undersecretary of Defense Doug Feith -- "the sort of war hawks that we talk about in connection with the war in Iraq."

And he said the preparation goes beyond contingency planning and includes detailed plans for air attacks:

"The next step is Iran. It's definitely there. They're definitely planning ... But they need the intelligence first."
Emphasizing 'diplomatic initiatives'

Bartlett said the United States is working with its European allies to help persuade Iran not to pursue nuclear weapons.

Asked if military action is an option should diplomacy fail, Bartlett said, "No president at any juncture in history has ever taken military options off the table."

But Bush "has shown that he believes we can emphasize the diplomatic initiatives that are under way right now," he said.

Hersh said U.S. officials believe that a U.S. attack on Iran might provoke an uprising by Iranians against the hard-line religious leaders who run the government. Similar arguments were made ahead of the invasion of Iraq, when administration officials predicted U.S. troops would be welcomed as liberators.

And Hersh said administration officials have chosen not to include conflicting points of view in their deliberations -- such as predictions that any U.S. attack would provoke a wave of nationalism that would unite Iranians against the United States.

"As people say to me, when it comes to meetings about this issue, if you don't drink the Kool-Aid, you can't go to meetings," he said. "That isn't a message anybody wants to hear."

The plans are not limited to Iran, he said.

"The president assigned a series of findings and executive orders authorizing secret commando groups and other special forces units to conduct covert operations against suspected terrorist targets in as many as 10 nations in the Middle East and South Asia," he wrote.

Under the secret plans, the war on terrorism would be led by the Pentagon, and the power of the CIA would be reduced, Hersh wrote in his article.

"It's sort of a great victory for Donald Rumsfeld, a bureaucratic victory," Hersh told CNN.

He said: "Since the summer of 2002, he's been advocating, 'Let me run this war, not the CIA. We can do it better. We'll send our boys in. We don't have to tell their local military commanders. We don't have to tell the ambassadors. We don't have to tell the CIA station chiefs in various countries. Let's go in and work with the bad guys and see what we can find out.'"

Hersh added that the administration has chipped away at the CIA's power and that newly appointed CIA Director Porter Goss has overseen a purge of the old order.

"He's been committing sort-of ordered executions'" Hersh said. "He's been -- you know, people have been fired, they've been resigning."

The target of the housecleaning at the CIA, he said, has been intelligence analysts, some of whom are seen as "apostates -- as opposed to being true believers." (Full story)
 

I LOVE WR

Registered
Forum Member
Jun 24, 2002
874
6
0
toronto canada
We need to get this done now, while we still have someone with courage in the White House

NOW THAT IS FUNNY. AND REALLY MAKES THE US LOOK PATHETIC.
 

I LOVE WR

Registered
Forum Member
Jun 24, 2002
874
6
0
toronto canada
I UNDERSTAND YOUR PASSION LIMEY. BUT CALLING GW BRAVE OR COURAGEOUS IS LIKE CALLING ME A GENTLEMAN.

WHATS THE NAME OF THAT IRISH PUB 50 FEET FROM LINCOLN PARK GOING TOWARDS THE PATH AND THE MALL. LOVE THAT PUB.
 

danmurphy jr

Registered User
Forum Member
Sep 14, 2004
2,966
5
0
There's a special wax they use on his limo so the raw eggs they throw at him won't stick. I wish I was makin it up
 

smurphy

cartographer
Channel Member
Jul 31, 2004
19,901
133
63
16
L.A.
Englishman said:
They got serious with us on 9/11 - we need to be serious with them. Only myopic liberals would fail to see the need to eradicate the Axis Of Evil.
And only myopic neo-conservatives continue to think Iraq or Iran was behind 9-11.

Where's the rhetoric to take over Saudi Arabia? If 9-11 is the argument, at least that would make more sense.

Someone with courage is in the White House? Who is visiting?
:142lmao:
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,556
214
63
"the bunker"
just curious...should the mullahs in iran be left to their own devices to build such weapons?....

should we turn a blind eye?.....

saddam tried to build a reactor...but it was was bombed out of existence before it went hot....lucky for israel ....kuwait....and the whole middle east...and there was to be no assisitance from europe....the europeans(france and germany) supplied saddam(i.e. sold) with the technology....

should we just let iran do as they please?.....

do you guys feel the middle east...the oil and energy that is the backbone of "the world`s" economy...will be just as safe and stable with a radical fundamentalist government having a nuclear weapon in their arsenal?....

i`m curious...what`s the plan?
 
Last edited:

smurphy

cartographer
Channel Member
Jul 31, 2004
19,901
133
63
16
L.A.
I don't know what the plan should be. I just know that it should not involve partisan politics or the word "Liberal". One thing's for sure, we'll be doing a lot more actual calculation and show a lot more patience this time around.

Realistically, we can't keep nukes out of undesirable hands forever. I'm not saying to just let Iran buld 'em, but there is a reality that they and others will get them someday no matter what we do - it's a matter of time. Pakistan has them, but we are not too concerned about that. There's hope for Iran to be a more US sympathetic country. Most of the young people there want them to have more relations with us.

Diplomacy and preparing ourselves to not need any ME oil is one way to go. Otherwise, how many lives and money are worth military action there? Eventually, we won't have any more of either left.
 

Chanman

:-?PipeSmokin'
Forum Member
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 19:26:56 -0600
News Article from Germany

It's a phrase you can't get out of your head because it's so terribly true.
Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated and hesitated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to agreements. Appeasement stabilized communism in the Soviet Union and East Germany in that part of Europe where inhuman, suppressive governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities.

Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo and we Europeans debated and debated until the Americans came in and did our work for us. Rather than protecting democracy in the Middle East, European appeasement, camouflaged behind the fuzzy word "equidistance," now countenances suicide bombings in Israel by fundamentalist Palestinians.

Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore 300,000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, to issue bad grades to George Bush. A particularly grotesque form of appeasement is reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic fundamentalists in Holland and elsewhere by suggesting that we should really have a Muslim holiday in Germany.

What else has to happen before the European public and its political leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially
perfidious crusade consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians and directed against our free, open Western societies.

It is a conflict that will most likely last longer than the great military conflicts of the last century-a conflict conducted by an enemy that cannot
be tamed by tolerance and accommodation but only spurred on by such gestures which will be mistaken for signs of weakness.

Two recent American presidents had the courage needed for anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush. Reagan ended the Cold War and Bush, supported only by the social democrat Blair acting on moral conviction, recognized the danger in the Islamic fight against democracy. His place in history will have to be evaluated after a number of years have passed.

In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence in the multicultural corner instead of defending liberal society's values and being an attractive center of power on the same playing field as the true great powers, America and China.

On the contrary-we Europeans present ourselves, in contrast to the intolerant, as world champions in tolerance, which even (Germany's Interior
Minister) Otto Schily justifiably criticizes. Why? Because we're so moral? I fear it's more because we're so materialistic.

For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of additional national debt and a massive and persistent burden on the American economy-because everything is at stake.

While the alleged capitalistic robber barons in American know their priorities, we timidly defend our social welfare systems. Stay out of it! It
could get expensive. We'd rather discuss the 35-hour workweek or our dental health plan coverage. Or listen to TV pastors preach about "reaching out to murderers." These days, Europe reminds me of an elderly aunt who hides her last pieces of jewelry with shaking hands when she notices a robber has broken into a neighbor's house. Europe, thy name is cowardice.
 

Englishman

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 20, 2003
2,268
26
0
Lincoln Park, New Jersey
Smurphy, I agree with you on that: We need a comprehensive energy policy that eliminates our need for ME oil.

Some intetresting thoughts here, but surely we can all agree on one thing, whatever we think of Bush: We must NEVER let Iran gain Nuclear weapons. We must do whatever it takes to stop this from happening.

Smurphy, we mustn't be too patient. Clinton was patient and it didn't work. I'm not blaming him for 9/11 in any way - I understand the desire to be patient and hope the problems resolve themselves, but as we now know, the problem will not go away unless we make it go away.

Whatever it takes - these battles must be fought in the ME, not in the Streets of Lower Manhattan. And we must be very careful with legislation like The Patriot Act....we must not let these enemies undermine our democracy or constitution: the future of the world may depend on this.

It's not pleasant or media-friendly, Susan Sarandon and Whoopi Goldberg won't like it, but sometimes, history demonstrates, there is no other option than to annihilate your foe: That is where we are now.
 

I LOVE WR

Registered
Forum Member
Jun 24, 2002
874
6
0
toronto canada
IS IT THE LINCOLN PARK PUB ENGLISH. MY BUDDY USED TO LIVE THERE IM SURE. ITS LIKE A 1.5 MINUTE DRIVE TO THE TUNNEL. I THINK IT WAS THE HOLLAND TUNNEL. AMI I IN THE RIGHT AREA OR NO
 

Englishman

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 20, 2003
2,268
26
0
Lincoln Park, New Jersey
It's the town of Lincoln Park near Waye, NJ, about 25 miles from the Tunnel. Don't know the pub you mention, WR, but there are some great Irish pubs in Hoboken I remember from my days living there.

No good pubs at all out here, I can assure you of that.
 

I LOVE WR

Registered
Forum Member
Jun 24, 2002
874
6
0
toronto canada
I WAS MISTAKEN. HE LIVED IN JERSEY CITY BY A PARK I THOUGHT WAS NAMED LINCOLN PARK. HOBOKEN WAS GREAT. LOVED SITTING AND TALKING WITH THE OLD TIME MAFIA GUYS. GREAT STORIES.
 

Englishman

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 20, 2003
2,268
26
0
Lincoln Park, New Jersey
Yeah, I lived there is 1985, before most of the whole "gentrification" thing. It was a great time in my life, I'd just come to live in the US. Very exciting. Used to go to the local barber's shop on the corrner of Washington and 7th Street to place my bets....oh, and get the occasional haircut.

One day I was walking down Washington to the PATH and I was stopped in the street by a big, classic mafioso-type guy. Well, it turned out he was the Mayor and he was asking me for his vote! I said sorry, but I'm not a citizen and can't vote. He just laughed, shook my hand and siad if I needed anything to come and see him in his office. It was brilliant, like a scene from a latter-day Godfather movie. Apparently, he had been the mayor for thirty years!
 

danmurphy jr

Registered User
Forum Member
Sep 14, 2004
2,966
5
0
Sinatraville- actor Joe Pantpoliano schooled there also. One of the more historic cities in the state
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top