Lib. Sen. Durbin when asked about the Dem plan..was stumped!

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CHARLESMANSON

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Watching Liberal Senator Dick Durbin on the Sunday morning talk circuit was PRICELESS!! :142smilie

He was asked specifically 3 times what the Democrat's alternative plan was for Iraq. Each time all he did was critisize Bush, without offering any plan.

Finally when he was called out for avoiding the question, he offered this as the "democrat's plan"...

1. Convince the Iraqis to stand up militarily and politically so we can bring our troops home.

THAT'S IT! Nothing else. He didn't even offer any specifics or anything. Bashing Bush is not a plan for victory in my opinion, but who knows, maybe I
'm just "out of touch". lol

I'm just wondering how this is different than Bush's plan.....?? :shrug:

Maybe Durbin was wrong....maybe the liberals do indeed have a plan??? If so will someone in the Democratic party tell us???
 

kosar

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lol- yeah, ok. I've made the analogy before and it's even more apropos now.

It's like driving drunk, smashing your car up and then saying to somebody, 'well if you're so smart, what is your plan to get me out of this.'

It's baffling how certain elements are suddenly asking the dems for solutions to the clusterf*ck that was initiated by this admin, yet have no comment on the actual clusterf*ck. Sad.
 
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CHARLESMANSON

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Kosar that does not explain all the democrats voting FOR the war!! So what's the dems plan Kosar? Was Lib Durbin full of shit?

Or better yet, should I show you quotes by liberals like Clinton, Kerry, Hillary, Gore, etc etc....who all said that Saddam had WMDs??? Hell, Clinton said REGIME CHANGE IS THE ANSWER!!

How do you explain that Kosar?
 
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kosar

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CHARLESMANSON said:
So what's the dems plan Kosar? Was Lib Durbin full of shit?

I've answered this sort of dumb question for three years. THERE IS NOT, AND HASN'T BEEN, ANY SORT OF GOOD 'PLAN' AFTER WE WENT INTO IRAQ. Got it?

Look for 'plans' from the people that got us into this.

It's just priceless that people like you look to the dems for a 'plan', but don't hold the people that actually got us into this accountable.

Myself and others said that this 'mission' was misguided and fruitless since before the invasion. 300 billion and counting later. 2300 lives and 17,000 maimed later, here we are.

We will have installed an islamfascist government. Does that make you feel better. George Will and William Buckley say that we have already created a civil war. As you probably have never heard of them, they are staunch conservatives and very hard-pressed to go against the party line.

That said, it's just semantics at this point. Is there a civil war going on right now? Maybe, maybe not, but they're turning up tons of men executed from both sides and it's clearly sectarian murders.

Whatever the case, when we leave, the country will be up for grabs. Yes, civil war is assured. And because of the demographics, Shia control is eventually definitely assured, most likely every bit as heavy handed as Saddam with one clear difference.

Instead of being bitter enemies with Iran, they will be aligned with Iran.

That's great! And it will have only cost us thousands of men and women and billions of dollars to get there!
 

kosar

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CHARLESMANSON said:
Kosar that does not explain all the democrats voting FOR the war!! So what's the dems plan Kosar? Was Lib Durbin full of shit?

Or better yet, should I show you quotes by liberals like Clinton, Kerry, Hillary, Gore, etc etc....who all said that Saddam had WMDs??? Hell, Clinton said REGIME CHANGE IS THE ANSWER!!

How do you explain that Kosar?

I explain it by saying that who gives a f*ck if Saddam still had WMD from the 80's.
 
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CHARLESMANSON

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We don't look for the dems to have a plan for us. The reason we ask Dems what their plan is is so we can prove that they do not have one! Instead they bash Bush 24/7, just like you. You keep solidifying my theory!!! :mj07:


Obviously you have not been paying attention to the news. The State Dept. has started picking apart the Saddam Hussein tapes and documents. Thousands of boxes of them. They prove you wrong.

Would you like to start talking about what is on the tapes and documents???? Bring it on.
 
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djv

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Bush 41 was smart enough not to stay and try to own Iraq as he called it in 91. And the call of. They voted for the war they voted for the war. Now as many who have found the truth say they were wrong in there vote. And many including Reb's say they were given very bad info. But the big 3 just keep saying same old B S. They just can't admit they were wrong and seem to have a plan that no one else sees. And now talk tough to Iran. But give India and Pakistan the ok to grow there nuke stock piles. This is a plan.
 

Chadman

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I believe what you are asking for was provided, quite publicly back in November of 2005. Kosar is right in pointing out that it is the current administrations responsibility for coming up with a plan, because they convinced congress and the senate that it was important for our country to go into Iraq. They manipulated and hid evidence and intelligence reports (or lied about them, for those of us that realize that) that explained quality reasons AGAINST going into Iraq that helped shape legislators opinions at a time when it was also political suicide to come out against a war that was assumed to be important - also because of the manipulated information presented to the public.

All along, the administration has told us to listen to the commanders in the field and to their approved Iraqi "officials" about what we should be doing there. Now that both are saying we are not handling the situation well (most positive way to put it...) and have created a civil war it shows just how badly the administration has performed in this situation.

At any rate, here was the plan which encouraged honesty and forthrightness with the American people and the rest of the world. Not what this administration is cut out for, to be sure:

Reid Outlines Way Forward in Iraq, Previews Democrats Iraq Amendment

Monday, November 14, 2005

Washington, D.C. ? Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid delivered the following remarks at a press conference today with Assistant Democratic Leader Dick Durbin and Senator Carl Levin.

Remarks as prepared:

?Our troops deserve a strategy in Iraq that is worthy of their sacrifice. That is why, for three years, Democrats have pushed the White House to lay out a plan for success.

?Unfortunately, the President has rejected our call, and instead, insisted America needs to ?stay the course.? With more than 2,050 Americans killed? more than $250 billion spent? and no end in sight after three years of war -- ?staying the course? is no longer an option.

?Together, we can do better. Democrats have developed a very clear path forward. There are three areas we believe need to be addressed:

First, 2006 should be a significant year of transition to full Iraqi sovereignty, with Iraqis taking more and more responsibility for their own security. It?s time to take the training wheels off the Iraqi government. Iraqis must begin to run their own country. In 2006, the US and our allies must do everything we can to make that possible.

Second, the Administration must advise the Iraqi people that U.S. military forces will not stay indefinitely in Iraq, and that it is their responsibility to achieve the broad-based and sustainable political environment essential for defeating the insurgency.

Third, the President needs to submit ? on a quarterly basis - a plan for success to Congress and the American people. This plan must specify the challenges and progress being made in Iraq, timetables for achieving our goals and estimated dates for redeployment from Iraq as these goals are met.

?Apparently, Republicans have agreed this is the approach we need to take, as they have essentially accepted our amendment.

?It cannot be understated that by accepting our amendment, both the Republican leader and the chairman of the Armed Services committee agree that the administration needs to come forward and explain to Congress and the American people its strategy for success and completing the mission.

?It?s not easy for the President to admit mistakes. It?s a lot easier for him to lash out at those who question his policies, but political attacks are not going to get the job done. Our troops have done their job. It?s time for the President and this Republican-controlled Congress to do theirs.?

###

UNITED STATES POLICY ON IRAQ ACT

Getting Answers to the American People on the War in Iraq

For too long, the Bush administration has failed to lay out a clear strategy for success in Iraq to the American people. Their rosy statements about the progress of the war are not matched by the conditions on the ground. In their few appearances before the Congress, the Secretaries of Defense and State have failed to answer the most basic questions about our progress in the war or provide even the simplest benchmarks by which the American people could measure our progress. Democrats are offering an amendment to the Defense Authorization Bill that holds the Administration accountable for its actions and requires it to present a real plan for success.

DEMOCRATS OFFER THE FOLLOWING ASSESMENT ABOUT THE WAR:

Our troops and their families deserve the respect and gratitude of the American people for their service and sacrifice. The Administration has said that as the Iraqis stand up, we can stand down. Democrats believe we should see a significant transition to full Iraqi sovereignty in 2006 so that our troops can begin coming home. We also believe the Iraqi people must understand that the U.S. military will not stay in Iraq indefinitely; they must achieve the political stability necessary to defeat the insurgency.

THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION MUST PROVIDE A PLAN:

It is essential that the Bush administration submit an unclassified strategy for success in Iraq to the Congress and the American people specifying how and when our troops can begin coming home.

An Assessment of the Bush Administration?s Actions to Achieve Progress in Iraq. The Bush administration must provide information on its efforts to convince Iraq?s communities to make the necessary compromises for a political settlement; efforts to engage the international community to help stabilize Iraq; efforts to strengthen the capacity of Iraq?s government ministries; efforts to accelerate the delivery of basic services; and efforts to train Iraqi security forces so those forces can protect Iraq on their own.

An Assessment of the Compromises Made by the Iraqi People to Achieve the Broad-Based and Sustainable Political Settlement.

An Unclassified Report to Congress and the American People. The Bush administration has classified most significant information about their Iraq war plans and kept that information from the Congress. The President should submit to the Congress and the American people an unclassified plan for success in Iraq. We deserve to know the conditions we seek to establish, the challenges we face in achieving these conditions, and the progress we are making. This report should also include:

The number of Iraqi battalions that must be able to operate independently or take the lead in counterinsurgency operations

The number of Iraqi special police units that must be able to operate independently or take the lead in policing

The number of regular police that must be trained and equipped

The ability of Iraq?s Federal ministries and provincial and local governments to independently sustain, direct and coordinate Iraq?s security forces

The Benchmarks for Success. The Bush administration must also provide benchmarks by which their success can be measured. This includes the criteria by which to measure the progress being made and a schedule for meeting these conditions.

A Plan for Bringing Our Troops Home. As it lays out a clear strategy with benchmarks, the Bush administration must also provide a campaign plan with estimated dates for the phased redeployment of our troops from Iraq as each condition is met, with the understanding that unexpected contingencies may arise.
 
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Chadman

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dr. freeze said:
The Dem's plan is to demoralize the country

If I were you, I think I'd pick a different word if I were standing up for republicans. I don't think the word "moral" should be brought up, do you?

I personally would find it pretty "moralizing" if hundreds of people were not being killed each and every day, based on an incomplete picture presented by this administration, at a cost of a billion dollars a day. I find that damn demoralizing.
 

JCDunkDogs

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CHARLESMANSON said:
what the Democrat's alternative plan...for Iraq...maybe the liberals do indeed have a plan??? If so will someone in the Democratic party tell us???
Have Republicans slipped down this far? Relegated to asking Democrats for ideas? NO! Republicans are supposed to know about this stuff, WAR, and how to kick some a**!

Just listen to yourselves now. You can't be happy, no matter how many hysterical laughing faces you put on it. You're guy Bush has gotten us into a helluva mess. So, my advice to you is to act like men you are and take personal responsibility for voting for this man.

And don't tell us the Dems plan would have been the same in 2003: TO INVADE IRAQ. You guys spent most of 2002 telling us that, "Its a good thing Bush won, because Gore wouldn't have the balls to invade Iraq."
 

Chadman

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JCDunkDogs said:
And don't tell us the Dems plan would have been the same in 2003: TO INVADE IRAQ. You guys spent most of 2002 telling us that, "Its a good thing Bush won, because Gore wouldn't have the balls to invade Iraq."

This is IT, in a nutshell. The current administration (and its supporters) continues to try to frame an issue and if someone does not fit into the frame, they are against the picture and up to ridicule. This, coming from an administration that asked us to support a candidate that works to bring people together in a bipartisan way and has polarized Americans and the entire world more than possibly ever before.

"You guys are weak on defense and would never have attacked Iraq. So, what is your plan for the current situation in Iraq?"
 
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spibble spab

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kosar said:
lol- yeah, ok. I've made the analogy before and it's even more apropos now.

It's like driving drunk, smashing your car up and then saying to somebody, 'well if you're so smart, what is your plan to get me out of this.'

It's baffling how certain elements are suddenly asking the dems for solutions to the clusterf*ck that was initiated by this admin, yet have no comment on the actual clusterf*ck. Sad.

invalid comparison, mr kosar. If you do want to use it. be a little more adult and say "when I drive that car, I will not get behind the wheel drunk in the first place.
chappaquiddick_car.jpg
 
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