muther fuken' degenerates.........

Gatorbait

eat box
Forum Member
Sep 24, 2000
1,527
1
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in the muff
Wanted a title that would get opened by most everybody-posters and lurkers.

I was away from MJ's for the weekend and I come back to some threads which are very concerning and would just like some feedback.

Why bashing?? I honestly don't believe somebody gets bashed because somebody lost money on his/her plays. Before somebody makes it here to MJ's, they have already been burned by scamdicappers and paid out sum $$$(some more $$ than others). Once this happens,you know that following somebody elses plays without doing homework will not make you money. I feel like everybody here uses this place the same way. We each handicap games and find the games we like and dislike and then use the "forum" to match em' up. If we see some of the good guys on the plays we like, we play them. I'd have to say most here do it just like this. I would love to be able to post 70% winners and be known at MJ's and all forums on the net as the "Best" capper. It's not going to happen. I've come to realize that. When I first started posting, I tried the "Huge play" "Play of the Year" crap and it backfired on me. I didn't play any more money on them, I just wanted recognition. I wanted to be known by all as "Da Man" I mean it would be an awsome feeling to come on here, post Game of Day in BOLD letters and have it win every night. Every night 50-100 people post up under me thanking me. That would be the shit. The only way for this to happen is to show PROFITS. Consistancy!!! Over the long haul!! Not by bragging and all the other chit. I feel that people here are out to show the other that he's better than him. This is sad. To get to be one of the most well respected cappers here, you've had to do some pretty impressive things, like win more games than you lose. My point in all this jargle is this----Fletch and Ray are 2 of the biggest names here. How do you think they got it. By going 0-5 and then the next day saying they went 4-1 in those same 5 plays. Give me a break. People here follow and pay attention. They have done something right, like win money. Bottom line, there is no reason to put somebody down. To get the recognition that we all want, just post winners and after time we will be respected. Just act yourself. No reason to come in here and talk a big game. This is a numbers game and let the numbers do the talkin. One last thing: in the last week we've heard talk from several on here that they are considering leaving. besides that, there are great cappers who are showing their faces less and less. If all these cappers leave, this place will have lost alot. I've moved on from my beginning days here and everybody else should too. Jack has an awsome thing here, and right now we are disappointing. Goodnight all, make money, and respond with thoughts and feelings. ALL of you!!!!!!!
 

CryBoy

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 12, 2000
2,852
26
48
Arlington, TX
It's 2:30 a.m. in the morning. I don't know what else to add, except I'm very sadden by the fact that we might lose some of the great cappers at MadJack's.

Just don't know right now... Sorry...
 

Junior44

Registered User
Forum Member
Dec 2, 1999
1,018
190
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San Diego, CA
This is the first post I've made in this forum in about a month, but the "topic of discussion" the last few days or so has compelled me to state my opinion (for those that care).

Personally, I have been posting on the web for about 5 years and have been here at MJ's for about 3. Does this make be some sort of icon? No, not at all. The reason I state this is because I've had the opportunity to observe different forums in their infancy, through their growth stages, and (sometimes) their death. When speaking of "old-timers" (whatever the criteria for that may be) I suppose I'm one of them, and from the perspective of this particular forum, I think I can provide some insight into "the way things were" and the "way things are now." There was a time when this site was just a little speck on the web with perhaps a dozen or so regular posters: Tiger, Jack himself, Count Zero, Duce?, Swami, and Cow to name a few. This site was more of a general meeting place for a bunch of friends than a public posting board. However, it was just a matter of time before word got out that their was something special here and the site started growing. Most things (posting forum included) can only maintain an equilibrium for so long, before they either grow or fade away. This is a GOOD thing. I'm the first to admit (and have many times) that, I don't care if you have 6 posts or 6000 posts: if you have something to share that can be of benefit to ANYBODY in their quest to gain an edge, I wanna see it. Every single person (myself included) made their first post at one time or another. So the point being: The growth of this site SHOULD be a good thing, not to mention a just reward for one of the classiest guys you'll ever meet in this business, MJ himself.

Now, onto the problem at hand. Unfotunately growth does not come with a filter and does not discriminate. This is still a PUBLIC posting forum and anybody with a two-bit idea and an email address can say anything they want (at least temporarily), and with this influx of posters came MANY with relevant information. Now, let me present my opinion of what "relevant" or quality information is. I'm talking about such things as selections with REASONING, local insight, weather reports, obscure trends, the background of rookie pitchers, personal money management techniques, sharing experiences (both good and bad), on and on. In general, quality information is something that the general public does not or cannot have access to. That is the TRUE power of a forum such as this. Any little iota of info that can give somebody an edge.

In the last few months or so, I've witnessed a mad influx or people whose sole contribution is tossing up a handful of plays. To me, this is useless. Sure, there are several posters here who keep meticulous records and have proven they can win. Hoops, Barfly, and a few others come to mind. But now you've got about 100 of these types of people. You've seen em. Now, I want to state for the record something very important: There is nothing inherantly wrong with this. As mentioned, it feels good to be recognized for your accomplishments. No if, ands, or buts about it. However, with that, comes something else that is counterproductive. It cannot be avoided, it comes with the package. Inevitably, it turns into a competition amongst the posters. In a sense, a contest. A contest to determine who, indeed, really is the sh!t. As with any "contest", not only are you pulling for yourself, but you are rooting for the other person's downfall. THIS IS THE POINT WHERE THIS FORUM LOSES ITS VALUE! The whole concept of a forum such as this is for everybody to work TOGETHER in a synergistic fashion and when this happens this forum is POWERFUL, arguably the most powerful handicapping tool one can find. When a host of individuals start tossing up picks in a halfhazardous and irresponsible way, the synergy dies. To save some time, here is a snippet of a post I made in a thread about a year ago (edited): "Think about this for a second. This is a public posting forum and anyone with a two-bit nickname and a fly-by-night hotmail address can toss in their two cents. Ask yourself this question: What are the motives behind an individual to post his plays for all to see on a regular basis? He certainly isn't getting paid monetarily, either by the site or his readers, and he doesn't win any prize if he becomes the "glory" of the forum. That leaves us with one of two reasons: the sincere desire to help others and the pleasure it gives -or- to achieve some sort of false "bravado" by posting plays in order to achieve a sense of superiority. In otherwords to reach that ellusive "pot of gold at the end of the rainbow", which is a pat on the back, a legion of "fans", and the occasional "You da MAN!!!!!" to satisfy that need that one craves. Now again, I want to make it clear that there is nothing inherantly wrong with the second motive. As men, we are programmed that way, to strut our stuff in a testosterone-induced haze to show our worth to our peers. It's not any different than showing off your hot new lady to all your friends or revving up the engine of your brand new car at a stoplight. For this particular topic, its "Check me out. Look how good i am". Again, completely natural. I do it. You do it. And 95% of this forum (or any forum) does it and it's always gonna be like that. Human nature. Everbody has their day in the sun. Now, the individual that is TRULY interested in helping others by sharing info, posting plays, etc. in this forum and others like it, understands that it's ok to be in the shade and isn't bothered if somebody else temporarily is in the spotlight. Because it's much more than that. ALOT more. The individual who TRULY cares, knows that his time will come back again full cycle.

Now, I want to make it clear that I'm not "indirectly" singling anybody out here. Also, there are certain individuals (not just in this forum) who can post a play without any reasoning or backup and it can stand on it's own merit. But, there's not many of them. These indivuals have a LONG track record, PROVEN winners year in and year out, who at one time or another HAVE shared the method to their madness.

Several times, (and quite coincidently, all in the last 6 months or so), I have been given the following advice in this forum: "Junior, you contribute nothing to this forum. Gimme some winners, or butt the hell out." Statements such as these demonstrate the entire jist of this particular post. In the last 6 months or so, I HAVEN'T contributed much. But that is not by choice. I am quite confident that in my years of posting on the net I have contributed AT LEAST if not more than I have taken. Anybody that knows me personally, knows what I'm all about. I don't claim to be above anybody or the best thing since sliced bread, but I do know that I have alot to contribute, and have done so. During my tenure on this site, I've shared my thoughts and ideas on everything from money-management to how to win betting pre-season baseball, as well as intermittantly posting plays for one reason and one reason only: to hopefully help somebody and to give something back. Awhile back, I realized that my contributions to this forum would be better served by posting thoughts, reasoning, ideas, experiences, methods, etc. I thought, "Hell, there's about 100 people posting their plays, maybe I can bring something a little different to the table." I soon found out that, for the most part, people don't give a rat's ass. People want WINNERS and they want them NOW, screw taking the time to learn or find out how they arrive at their conclusions. And this is sad. Because i WANT to share this stuff because this is how one learns. Personally, I am indebted to COUNTLESS people, both on the web and not on the web, for giving me the opportunity to learn what I know. Do I know it all? Hell no, not even close. I learn something new about this business every single day and am not ashamed to admit it. But, it pains me to see posts such as, "Yahoo....I am up X amount of units for the day" or "Boo....I am down X amount of units for the day", because sports wagering is an INVESTMENT and like any other investment must be measured long-term and unless you follow ONE particular guy religiously, for a significant point of time, posting and picking plays sporadically is pointless. Short-term results are meaningless, especially in baseball where a majority of the individual wagers one makes, the expectancy of losing outweighs that of winning.

So, now that I've come full circle, I don't expect everybody to agree with everything I said. Hell, maybe I can learn from my own mistakes (quite a concept). What i WOULD like is for everybody to work together towards a common goal, and we all know what that goal is. So, I would like to ask everybody to ask themselves the following question: What exactly are my contributions to this forum and what can I do to help achieve the common goal? If your a meteorologist, give a weather report. If you're a numbers cruncher, lay down some numbers. If you're a good writer, tell us a story, share an experience. In otherwords, share something that somebody may use to help themselves win. Every single person out there has SOMETHING to contribute and that's what this forum is supposed to be about. Isn't it?
 

shmuly

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Forum Member
Jan 21, 2001
173
0
0
Miami
-just came off along break...so dont know wxactly whats going on ..
just wanted to thank gator and junior for great posts....
i cam definitely relate to what your talking about ..
i myself havernt been in the business for too long ..and many a time (rather most of the time) just post my picks without resons ..often wondering if anyone reads this , or why i do it ....
i guess hoping that if someone ha the same play , they should feel an extra push of confidence ..knowing that others have it ...
when i do have time , i try to give resonings to my plays ...although many times i feel like no one is paying attention....

this is a great forum ..i cant say how much it has helped me ....theres some sifting to do ...but once its done ...theres great stuff here...guys dont let the occasional stupid comment bring you down...

i knwo my comments arent realy going anywhere ...heading out now ....just felt liek i wanted to say something ...

all the best ..
and hope to see you around the forum
smile.gif

shmuly
 

AzRusty

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Dec 16, 2000
443
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Surprise, AZ, USA
Thanks Gatorbait and Cryboy. Well thought out comments on what has been going on this past week here. To be honest I have missed most of all of the crap.

As far as I am concerned I think that you are right on Cryboy. There are really only two reasons that a person would even WANT to post there plays on a public forum such as this.

1. Ego driven- for attention, pats on the back, way-to go!, you do man's!

2. To honestly and un self-servingly attempt to help others to make money

Ok.. maybe a third...to help us all learn by explaining WHY the teams they chose were chosen... whether it be a revenge factor, fatigue, injury, etc

I missed all the stuff going on but am very upset to hear that this bashing stuff has happened.

I have been doing this stuff less than a year and have found there to be a tendencey on virtually every board that I have been to for the board to eventually attempt to self-destruct.

Even the BEST handicappers have losing days, losing streaks, and losing weeks. IF you don't do your own homework and choose to follow some guy who you admire or trust.
Don't bitch when he loses! It is guaranteed that if you follow a particular guy long enough.. no matter who he is.. you will eventually have the same bad day that he does whenever it happens!

The trick with following others picks is that when they start to do very well.. don't get all excited and say...whoopee! I'll just start doubling and tripling up my plays! That will result in certain disaster!

I am a novice sports gambler. Not particularly sports knowledgeable (when I started doing this I had the sports I.Q. of about a six year old. Now after about 8 months of hard work and study...(yes, I am treating this like a business and education...in that to improve I have to put the proper time into it) my sports I.Q. is up to that of the average 12 year old's. IF that.

I put about two hours into this stuff each day and on weekends I may put as much as 10 hours of study in. Still don't know how to handicap but in the past year have learned the basics of most of the major sports.

I am disppointed to see that there is a storm brewing here. And I hope that MJ can take care of problem posters, whiners, bashers and abusers by deleting or banning them before the stars of this board just say f*ck it and leave.

Best of luck to you and thanks for taking time to post

AzRusty

[This message has been edited by AzRusty (edited 04-09-2001).]

[This message has been edited by AzRusty (edited 04-09-2001).]
 

Bonovox

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Forum Member
Sep 29, 2000
140
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NY, NY, USA
I was waiting for a thread like this to open up, I knew it was just a matter of time. This site certainly has changed in the past few months not to mention the past few years.

Some random thoughts:

Raymond "quits" about once a sport season, he'll be back. We all need breaks some time.

When did this place become just a place to post whatever-the-hell picks you come up with? We have people here posting 8-10 games a day with -100+ units. What are you contributing? A fade opportunity? Don't feel as if you have to post picks. Information is much more valuable. If you live in a certain area or follow a certain team, enlighten the board -- but don't feel like you have to post 10 picks a day. Actually, I've made quite a bundle fading certain people, so maybe I should keep my mouth shut...

I rarely post picks. But I feel as though I bring information to the board when I have it. We have lost the information transfer on this board. No longer do we see posts with reasoning, mostly just picks. Who does that help? AzRusty is dead on, it's all about people trying to prove how great a capper they are. You know what, who cares. I care about my bankroll and you do too. No one could give a damn if you're the man. Want to impress everyone? Post some information, some logic, some observances.

Finally, this is something that has really pissed me off for a few months now. If you blindly follow someone's plays, SHUT THE HELL UP!!!! I am so sick of reading posts about how you're quitting baseball or the this team sucks or this sport sucks or something like that - or this capper sucks. My favorite are posts "what is a run line?" -- and then 2 hours later "that's it, I quit this game, this sucks!" NO ONE HERE WANTS TO HEAR IT! This is an open forum, but no one wants to hear you whining about losing $10. And gloating when you win games? How old are you people? ACT LIKE YOU'VE BEEN THERE AND YOU'LL BE THERE AGAIN!


I realize that I've basically echoed what Junior44 has written. EXACTLY! THAT'S HOW WE ALL FEEL!!!
 

KotysDad

Registered User
Forum Member
Feb 6, 2001
1,206
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38
Up to now I have been just reading the couple of threads on this "pick and post" topic, but I feel I must say ....I dont see this much whining and crying at my son's daycare!!

This forum has something for everyone. You give and take what you feel you need. If all you want is a quick pick and dont feel like reading alot of good analysis, then just take one of the many 20* locks that people want to give. If you have time to read the insights and analysis that people put in, then ignore the guy who just posts 50 picks and move on to the guy who did his homework.

But for gods sake, everyone stop whining about it ..... get out of this what you need and ignore everything else that might be useless to you, for crap sake. What is useless to you might be good for someone else and vice versa.

.....one more thing, let me know when milk and cookies are served
smile.gif
 

djv

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 4, 2000
13,817
17
0
I have said since the day i joined here. Had more luck and fun then anyother place. And its free. For those who just pop in now and then and just don't like it here. Why are you here? We all know to start trouble. Just go away if you don't like how some people post there plays. Or for that matter any subject.
 

pepin46

Registered User
Forum Member
Oct 6, 2000
525
0
0
miami, fl.
gator

i have agreed and disagreed with you in the past on an issue or two, probably about games. while the subject of your posting did catch my attention, i wish you would find other words to use, lest you become one of those responsible for a break-down, with more and more people using such words on subjects. this is ok at the bar among friends, but there are too many people here, and i will bet more than a few are offended with this type of language.

you complain about others boasting or bsing their way around, playing around with their records, etc. well, they do it to get attention. what have you just done here? exactly the same.

i usually avoid getting into controversies; i read the first posting on the china incident and decided to skip the whole thing. i have read many posts over the winter that i dislike, but refrain from getting into personal stuff.

i am here for the same reason most of us are, that is to share/contribute/have fun, all in the spirit of comradship and respect. i think junior touched upon the point that eventually boards reach a maturity level and then run into the potential of breaking up, as things start to get out of control.

i, and others, i am sure, will be more than happy to work with jack & co. to avoid something like this from happening, as it has been said time and time again, how much enjoyment we get from the boards here.

i and others on these forums have witnessed the total breakdown of what used to be a pretty decent board at aol, and surely don't want to keep surfing in the future to find another madjack. we would rather get if fixed.

i have made a couple of suggestions to jack, and will follow up with others interested in how to best keep this going. seems like there are too many postings. i just looked at the baseball folder and it is almost impossible to follow thru on subjects, as they are lost just about as soon as they are posted.

i wish others will speak up on this subject, and maybe we will get jack's attention, for the sake of all of us.

i am not coming back with a reply on this one. will read anything further and shut up.


pep
 

djv

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Nov 4, 2000
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Pep, maybe one way is to keep it to sports only. I know this started on who picks what. But once in a while we could deal with it. But you are correct and im quilty of this. A thread gets started and has nothing to do with sports. I don't agree with it and I say so. Or I start one that causes a ripple. Maybe we need one to fent in, but it is done with humor only. No politics, No name calling.
 

Gatorbait

eat box
Forum Member
Sep 24, 2000
1,527
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in the muff
From listening to EVERYBODY'S opinions, sounds like 1 thing needs to happen and should be relatively cheap and not too time consuming. Under each sport have a section for posting selections only. List your plays and reasoning if needed. Under the same sport, have a section for INFO only. No picks, no crying, no bragging, no bashing. Just info. Think this would make everybody happy.

Pep, I find your attach on me pretty fricken' humurous. We all gamble here. Your average person doesn't gamble like us. We are not your average joe Schmoe. Hardly anyone hear started placing wagers legally, meaning Vegas or Online Offshore. We did it thru bookies. Breaking the fricken' law. Now I've offended people by using alittle profanity to get attention so we could put an end to the chit going on around here. Profanity not even spelled right. Now I am curious to the average person coming to this site. Am I right or wrong, I want to know. Did I offend anybody with my language. Please let me know. I will be completely shocked.
 

Neemer

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 24, 1999
1,470
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Bluegrass!
This is gettin' a little silly! For the life of me, I can not figure out why people think they HAVE to read what someone else wrote. It's like this mysterious force in cyberspace that ya can't get away from.

If ya don't like it, don't read it. It's really that simple...
 

Neemer

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 24, 1999
1,470
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Bluegrass!
You can make italicized text or make text bold by encasing the applicable sections of your text with either the [b [/b

Hello, James
Hello, Mary

start the word off by using and then close it by using

[This message has been edited by Neemer (edited 04-10-2001).]
 

Gatorbait

eat box
Forum Member
Sep 24, 2000
1,527
1
0
in the muff
[bthanks]
[/bthanks]

confused.gif


[thanks]
[/thanks]

mad.gif


[bthanksb]
rolleyes.gif


[This message has been edited by Gatorbait (edited 04-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Gatorbait (edited 04-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Gatorbait (edited 04-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Gatorbait (edited 04-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Gatorbait (edited 04-10-2001).]
 

Neemer

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 24, 1999
1,470
6
0
Bluegrass!
DAMN, this chit is hard to explain cuz everytime you enclose the word in bold, it doesn't show the beginning and ending prefixes.....

Try this: We are gonna use the word THANKS....

(1) First, look at the letter "P" on your keyboard. The key just to the right of it are two keys consisting of two different kinds of brackets. You want to use the bracket that DOES NOT require the "shift" function.

(2) Hit your first bracket button the one that is right next to the "P". Should look like this: [ Right after the first bracket type the letter "B"(case sensitivity does not matter. After you type the letter "B" close it using this bracket ] which is the second key to the right of the "P".

(3) Type the word "thanks". At the end of the word "thanks" type the opening bracket key [ once again. After the opening brackets type this: /b and then close it with the closing bracket which is the second key to the right of the "P".
 

Junior44

Registered User
Forum Member
Dec 2, 1999
1,018
190
63
57
San Diego, CA
Allow me to make a couple of follow-up points here....

Kotysday: First of all, this is not about whining and complaining. It's about the disintregation of the cumulative Mad Jack's gene pool. I made my post for the benefit of others, period. Personaly, I have the time to plow through all the garbage to find what I need: somebody whose only access to this forum is during their lunch break would be hard-pressed to wade though the plethora of crap in here in an hour's time. You mentioned "just ignore everything that is useless to you". Well, in a perfect world, you would be dead on and there wouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately, you don't know it's useless until you open up the thread, read a few lines, and move on. When this is done 20-30 times, it eats up alot of clock.

djv and Gator: Your ideas of segmenting the forums into seperate sections sounds good on paper, and in fact, has been tried before many times (in other forums). The FACT is: It doesn't work. People are going to post where all the action is going on. They aren't going to take their time to post in a tiny section that nobody sees. Good idea....Been Tried.....Doesn't work.

Lastly, I have asked the following question probably a dozen times and have written pages on the subject. Still, I have no answer. Can somebody, PLEASE, for the love of God, tell me what exactly does throwing up a bunch of plays accomplish? Like Bonovox said, "When did this place become just a place to post whatever-the-hell picks you come up with? What are you contributing? I am going to make a seperate post asking this question, because I've yet to hear ONE answer.

Lastly, I want to emphasize that I'm some old rigid bastard who wants things to be "the way they were" when there were 12 posters and bread cost 5 cents. I welcome and embrace growth and prosperity (addressed in first post) as an opportunity to share even MORE info. Right now, this forum is at a crucial point. It's up to us, the posters, to choose which route to take.
 
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