Nolan Dalla>>>>question

shats

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Sep 18, 1999
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the man's pocket!
Hey Nolan:
Thanks again for all your efforts. Quick question, I know you don't like splitting hairs but.... My man uses the CRIS line so I can only get Phoenix at +7.5 Do you still see enough value here to recommend Phoenix. Also, quick question, my man lets me buy a half a point on any side or total for an extra 10% juice. Usually I only do this if the line is 3, 7 , 10, 14 or on a key number for a total. I didn't do it in week 1 in the game where we were getting 3 I think it was SF/Atl and I was pissed! In any case what are your thoughts in general on buying that half point and when would you recommend I do it. Thanks again for all your help.
Shats
 
W

wondo

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This is taken from the FAQ on his page... don't know if he has changed anything recently.
http://www.madjacksports.com/nolan/questionsfeb22.shtml

Nolan:

My question pertains to buying points. I apologize for this being a bit out of season (I really don't see much value into buying points for basketball, but please correct me if you see something I don't). This really pertains to football and working with "key numbers" (3, 4, 7, 10). Is the extra juice worth it?? I usually, buy to "not lose" around a key number instead of "buying to win". In other words, if my team is -7 1/2, I will buy down to 7 and take the 120/100 odds. On the other hand, I will rarely take a team that is -3, and buy down to -2 1/2. The same goes for the dogs...buy up a half to 3, but not taking a 3 up to 3 1/2. I hope I am explaining this well enough to make sense?!? Does this strategy make for "smart play" or does this give the house more of an advantage (in juice) that we may not necessarily want to give?? As always, your thoughts are appreciated. -- Nino

?

NOLAN'S REPLY: Although this question is indeed "out of season," it is never too early to start thinking about your handicapping and learning new ways to approach the upcoming NFL season. In fact, there is no such thing as an "off-season" for a serious handicapper. I sometimes use the down time to catch up and hypothesize on new theories -- going back and tracking old results. So, even though this is not a basketball question and might seem out of place in late February, I will give you my point of view.

The fact of the matter is -- I never buy points. Never. I can't think of a single occasion where you would be justified laying an extra ten percent in vig just for the sake of hitting or crossing a key number (okay -- there is one exception, which I will get to later).

The concept of buying a half-point appears reasonable at first glance. After all, what's ten percent? What's a few extra dollars just in case the actual spread falls on 7 and you have 6.5, or the final score is 21-17 and you only got 3.5 points? My view is that if you are so concerned about the number being a factor, then you shouldn't be betting the game. In other words, since there is no "value" on a team at +3.5, you cannot artificially "create" value by making the line +4. Buying the hook is almost always a dumb investment.

If you are like most sports bettors, you do not keep records of all your wagers with the final results. But just in case you do -- I'll ask you to do something. Go back and look at all the games you bet that were right on or near key numbers. Let's say you would have bought the hook on these key games, getting 7 instead of 6.5, or laying 7 instead of 7.5, and so forth. Now, if you can do this -- go back and add up all of the times you lost a game by a half-point.

Go ahead. Do it.

How many games were there? One, maybe two? I doubt there were more than a couple in a season, unless you are playing the entire board every Sunday. My point is -- it's generally a losing proposition to lay ten percent additional just for the sake of a half point. Your results will bear this out, I believe.

Keep in mind that sportsbooks make this offer because of one reason. They know many betters will be tempted to insure themselves against a half-point loss and will gladly pay an additional ten-percent to fall into what I call a "comfort zone." You are thinking -- "Ahhhh, now the Titans have to score TWICE to cover the number." Now, the line move from 7 to 7.5 looks like a gift. The bottom line is -- most of the time it won't really matter. Or, at least it won't matter enough to offset all the ten-percent additional outlays. This is true whether you buy the half-point UP or DOWN. It doesn't really matter. Again, if you can -- go back and look at your results, or better yet go back over ALL the results in the NFL and see how many games fell within a point of the actual pointspread. Now, of those keep in mind you would only get a half point, and that would usually be done on key numbers -- 3, 4, 7, 10, 14 as you suggest. Weed out all the other games and you are very likely talking about a miniscule number of games where the half-point actually would make a difference (my guess would be in the 5-6 percent range -- but that's just an estimate).

Again, my fundamental point I stress is that if you are that seriously concerned about a line -- it is better to just skip the game. There are plenty of other games with better value. I have passed on many games, sometimes for one reason only -- because I was bothered by a half point (usually when the line was +3.5 and I wanted to take the underdog). It didn't hurt to just let it pass and not play the game. No game is so strong that its value will be increased by ten-percent by simply getting and extra hook.

Now, to the one exception: A rare instance of buying a hook that might be justified would be in the case of absolutely abominable weather conditions (hurricane force winds, a massive snowstorm, etc.). If there is a line set around 3, 4, or 7, you might be justified in buying the hook to increase your value. However, this is the case only because a very low scoring game is expected and points would be at an absolute premium. An example of this was the Week 16 game last year when New England went to Buffalo. The Bills were a slight favorite (I don't recall the line, but let's say it was 3 points). Since there were 50 mph winds and a driving snowstorm, I can see moving that number either direction because you know it's going to be a low-scoring game. By the way, the game went into overtime and was decided by a late field goal. This would be a rare exception, however. Most of the time, it's a waste of money.

In summary: If you are not confident enough in the play based on its own merits given the standard line, it's usually best to pass on the wager.
 

Nolan Dalla

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Shats:

First, I want to say that this is just my opinion. I don't have tables/data to substantiate my views on this (it would simply take to much time to do all the research). So, please keep that in mind:

Q 1: I touted PHX at +8.5 I believe PHX is ALMOST as strong a play at +8 (the loss of value is probably only 1-2 percent). However, the drop-off to +7.5 (which means a loss if the final margin is 8 points) is much more significant....probably as much as 5-7 percent (I am presuming that data would show that about 5 percent of NFL games (with one team favored by 7-7.5) end with a margin of "8." An 8 point margin applies to common scores which end in:

4 and 6....such as 14-6, 24-16, 34-26, 44-36.

1 and 3.....such as 21-13, 31-23, 43-31

5 and 7.....such as 35-27

6 and 8.....such as 36-28

7 and 9.....such as 17-9 and 27-19

8 and 0.....such as 28-20 and 38-30

Of course, if a safety occurs, or there is a two-point conversion -- there are many more possibilities.

So, if any of those scores hit on the Denver-Phoenix game, you would have lost a bet because of the line movement. It's a very tough call as to whether you should play the Cardinals at +7.5, especially since the delay cost you a full point. A conservative bettor would pass. An agressive bettor would probably make a wager. Depends on which applies to you.

Q 2: Buying half-points. I almost never do it. Only case where I will buy the half is with two defensive-minded teams (or bad weather) where the line is between 2.5 and 4.5 If both teams are capable of scoring points, the probability of the final spread landing on a key number decreases. A line of 3 on Balitmore-Tennessee is much more of an anchor than a line of 3 on a St. Louis-San Francisco game. I would be much more inclined to buy a hook on the defensive game. However, as a rule I don't usually make these plays.

Final Comment: There were a lot of 3 point games last week. I am sure many are thinking "what if?" That was a bit of an aboration. It's very unusual to have FOUR games (where line was 3-3.5 all land on 3).

Obviously, I welcome other ideas on this if anyone else wants to comment.

-- Nolan Dalla
 

pepin46

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well, i have made the point before:

if i skip a game because of a half point, maybe i should not even consider the game in the first place. i think the case in point was oak/kc, where many of us could have made a 3 point kc loss prediction. if we expected by prior confrontations that it was going to be this close, why even fiddle with it?

while nolan pointed out some of the possible scores that will hit 8, the significant numbers are still 6.5, 7, 7.5, depending on which side you choose. i would hate to factor in aberrations which are not the norm, like 2 point conversions, missed pa, safeties, etc. their frequency does not justify a millimeter of my gray mass, plus all things even over the long run, and some will go for me and some against, so why even bother?

i like ariz to cover, heck i think they may even upset here, but if the line is at 6.5, then, i will consider passing, not at 8 or 7.5, with 7 being the toss-up.

i will never pay a premium for a half point, just like i will never pay a premium for an over/under in baseball. this may make me look like a hero once every how many bets? my calculator doesn't register it.


pep
 
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