Nolan's piece about Jim Rome

Nick Douglas

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Nolan posted a pretty interesting piece about Jim Rome. I didn't hear the show, but apparently on the show he had the author of The Odds, which is a book that follows the life of a sportsbook manager at Stardust, a successful wiseguy and a wannabe pro gambler who just dropped out of college.

Clearly these two have a very negative opinion of sports wagering. It is also clear that they said some gross misrepesentations of sports gamblers by making their statements all inclusive.

Saying stuff like, "you *can't* win" and, "it's only a matter of time" is relatively foolish. Even they know that there are a decent number of professional gamblers in this world who do nothing but wager on sports for a living. It sounds irresponsible on the surface for them to make such blanket statements.

But Rome and the author were not addressing hard working gamblers like many of the guys who post on this board. They were addressing sports fans. That is Rome's audience.

Many, if not most, sports fans like to gamble on sports to some degree. And I believe I am not out of order in saying at least 99% of sports fans who gamble on sports lose money over the course of their lifetime.

It is for this reason that I don't find too much fault in Rome's comments on winning and losing money. The fact is that the overwhelmingly vast majority of Rome's listeners will lose money if they gamble on sports long term. Be it through not putting in the required effort or succumbing to the temptation of chasing losses, most of the sports fans who like Jim Rome's style of show will be more on emotion than anything else and end up losing money.

I know it is hard to defend comments which are untrue like "you can't make money". I know he should have qualified that by saying there is an infinitessimal chance of making money. But when you look at the overall greater good, qualifying that statement would likely only encourage shortsighted sports fans to try to buck the odds. The reality is that Rome turning off his fans to sports gambling would be a good thing for most of them financially.

Rome and the author then proceeded to comapre gambling to heroin and talk about the degenerative nature that gambling can have on relationships with friends and family.

Again, I find it unfortunate that Rome mad blanket statements like, "*every* gambler moves away from his family". I do believe, however, that a good majority of addicted gamblers do have strained relationships with friends and families due to their habit. I know among my friends who gamble and perhaps even for myself, I often find that the time I spend researching plays and watching games often cuts into time that could be spent with people that I care about. I justify it with the money I make and the fact that it is a hobby which I enjoy, but the facts remain the same.

As far as the comaprison to heroin, I believe that is slightly exaggerated but not far off the point. One of my good friends is a college dropout who has never made more than $20,000 in a year. During the 1999 NFL season, he lost $30,000. Now, I know that he has tried nearly every drug in the book recreationally (except heroin) and he will swear up and down that gambling is a more gripping vice than any of them. I know not much can be taken from a single example, but my point is that for many gamblers, that rush is so strong that the comparison to heroin for them is not far off.

I do agree that saying that a successful wiseguy who has been gambling for 20 years gambles for the rush is ludicrous, but the point they were making to Rome's listeners was somewhat accurate. Gambling's rush is as strong as any drug to those who are strongly addicted.

I know that Rome and the author also had some fun deriding the lifestyles of many gamblers and I don't think any of us could argue with that. Part of the freedom that gambling affords is that you can dress however you want and your appearance does not matter because you have no co-workers. I think anyone who has seen the becapped, unshaven, jean shorts-wearing masses in the average strip sportsbook would agree that sports gamblers don't display the level of traditional "class" that those who are stuck in the rat race of the corporate world become accustomed to in pursuit of corporate money.

I should point out that I think Rome went a tad overboard but the overall message to the type of sports fans who are mentally weak enough to enjoy the type of inane banter he often sells is a sound one. For most, gambling will take money from you, strain your relationships with loved ones and encourage you to exhibit "classless" social mannerisms.

I hate to be the one to say this because statements like these often cuase misguided polititians to try to take matters into their own hands, but I do believe it. It sometimes makes me uncomfortable that any money I make is drawn directly from the weakness of others, but in this world, that is a caveat of business when dealing with any form of "entertainment", which sports gambling surely is.
 

jmizeus

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GREAT POST! the man is coming here to the great city of BUFFALO i guess sometime in June i believe, just heard it on the radio, buffalo had over 20,000 e-mails to the man himself for a tour stop,believe it will happen at Dunn Tire Park, homw of our Buffalo Bison's AAA affiliate of the cleveland indian's, thinking about going???
biggrin.gif
 

ozball

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Nick,

superbly written piece, well thought out and delivered. This is the kind of reasoned debate that makes Madjack's such a pleasure (an addicting one, I might add) to drop in on.

There is no doubt that gambling takes it's toll on many. So often the less educated and poorer members of society who populate Bingo Halls, and casinos, playing the games with the lowest return. I have this idea that rather than being shunned and prohibited, that gambling should be taught at school, that the laws of probability should be taught better with real life practical examples, in order to somewhat "immunize" people against taking the stupid bets.

The USA (and indeed the Western world) was founded by risk takers and the existence of people willing to take calculated risks is necessary for the advancement of science and the economy yet there is this love hate relationship with gambling present in our society. As you know there is a puritanical streak throughout North American society that shuns gamblers ( and limits drinking to those over 21...different thread), yet needs gamblers to advance.

Nick is correct in stating that Sports betting is largely entertainment for most players...the excitement of having action definitely makes a game more interesting, but the prescence of this entertainment opens opportunities for the well informed and diligent to make a living there with hard work and analysis, much as a stock market requires participants to function efficiently.

Thanks again for a thought provoking essay

ozball
 

Junior44

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Very nice post Nick. As a person who is BOTH an avid listener to Jim Rome's show and has great respect for Nolan and his points of view, I was sort of stuck on the fence on this one. I too listened to Rome's interview with the Author of "The Odds" and read Nolan's piece the day after and found myself concuring with both points of view. After I thought about it, and read this thread, it occured to me that the conflicting issue was Rome's "choice" of using a blanket statement.

I absolutely and unequivocally agree that Rome's statements (everybody will bust, it's only a matter of time) do NOT apply universally. Was it wrong of him to apply his point of view universally? Not entirely. Nick, you brought up a very good point, and that is: We have to look at Rome's target audience. This is a show that is on during weekdays, in the afternoon. There is a reason that his show is not on at say 5-8 PM when the average corporate suit is listening in. Rome's opposition to sports gambling is not new. He has relayed his opinions on the topic since his broadcast birth and has never swayed. Why? Because he knows full well that a good portion of his audience either gambles, used to gamble, or is thinking about gambling on sports. There is no doubt in my mind that Rome is fully aware that an individual CAN indeed be successful doing this. Anybody working in the field of sports (in his capacity) most surely has seen it. On the flip side, I'm more than certain he's seen the destruction that problematic gambling can cause. All of us have. While Rome's blanketing of the issue is not correct on the surface, we have to keep in mind that he does what not very many journalists do, and that is: address the topic. He doesn't choose the low road and skirt the issue. I believe he was fully aware of what he was doing, because I recall how I felt after listening. His piece was directed at the "fill in the blank" percentage of individuals that CAN'T beat it (for one reason or another). And to the very small percentage of individuals who not only THINK they can beat it, but have ACTUALLY done so: these individuals know this and their success is not going to be swayed in the first place. It's sort of like this: He's sending a general message but, at the same time, saying to the small majority of successful sports gamblers "Hey, I know you're out there." With an audience as large as Rome has, it would be irresponsible of him to advocate sports gambling in any way, or, as Nick mentioned, even offer a glimmer of hope. There are many who take what Rome says as gospel. Now, does this mean that Rome was without fault. No. His generalisations were not correct, nor fair. And they certainly do not enhance the public image of the successful gambler. It would be easy to say that he shouldn't have even addressed the topic (which I truly believe), but Rome has never side-stepped an issue even, in this case, where it would be best to do so. In my mind, Rome is one of the most knowledgable and most prepared sports journalists there is in the field today. The man, without question, does his homework. As an interviewer, he asks the questions that people REALLY want to know (which is why some people in the field have dodged him entirely) and he doesn't beat around the bush. However, Rome has a major fault and that is: he has a large ego and ultimately finds himself addressing issues that are best addressed by others. Sports gambling is one of those issues. But, hey, at least he is consistant in his stubborness and if he made a poor judgement call (which I believe he did), I do believe that he took the only logical road he could take. The problem is...he should have never even got in the car.
 

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Nolan Dalla

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***My comments (by NOLAN) will be prefaced by astericks below:

Originally posted by Nick Douglas:
Nolan posted a pretty interesting piece about Jim Rome. I didn't hear the show, but apparently on the show he had the author of The Odds, which is a book that follows the life of a sportsbook manager at Stardust, a successful wiseguy and a wannabe pro gambler who just dropped out of college.

***(NOLAN) First, let me begin by thanking your for posting a well-written and thought- provoking reply, Nick. Please note that my comments which follow are meant to foster a discussion and greater understanding of the issues that are involved. In other words, I respect your right to disagree.

Clearly these two have a very negative opinion of sports wagering. It is also clear that they said some gross misrepesentations of sports gamblers by making their statements all inclusive.

***(NOLAN) There is no doubt about this point. In an interview that lasted about 15 minutes, not a single positive thing was said by either Jim Rome or the author about gambling or gamblers. It was a typical hatchet job on what we do. The question is why? One e-mail I received suggested that Rome might be motivated by some dark personal secrets in his past -- perhaps a compulsive gambler in the family or some old gambling debts he once had. I suggest (without having any hard evidence) that Rome is ego-driven, and was baffled at some early stage in his career when he wasn't able to use his sports "knowledge" to make money (gambling). He quickly came to the realization that "you can't win gambling on sports." After all, if someone as bright as Mr. Rome was such a miserable flop, what chances do dummies like us have to win? "None," according to Rome.

Saying stuff like, "you *can't* win" and, "it's only a matter of time" is relatively foolish. Even they know that there are a decent number of professional gamblers in this world who do nothing but wager on sports for a living. It sounds irresponsible on the surface for them to make such blanket statements.

***(NOLAN) Exactly! Which is why the entire charade was a sham from the beginning. Here's my take. If you can't report about a serious issue accurately and give all points of view for an overall perspective, then don't touch it. It would be like running a documentary on the Middle East and only interviewing either Ariel Sharon or Yassar Arafat. It would be so one-sided it wouldn't be worth listening to -- which is exactly what plagued this so-called "interview."

But Rome and the author were not addressing hard working gamblers like many of the guys who post on this board. They were addressing sports fans. That is Rome's audience.

***(NOLAN) Then dummy-down the conversation and do wrestling shows instead. If Rome's intention is to cater to the greatest number of listeners, he should forget about educating or informing people about serious issues in sports and just go after the lowest common denominator. Yet Rome comes across (on radio and TV) as being a "hard hitting" journalist. He supposedly reports on serious issues. If this is the case, he then has a responsibility to REPORT THE SUBJECT AS ACCURATELY AS POSSIBLE, not resorting to outdated images and scare tactics in order to discourage peopole from gambling. He's a journalist, not a social worker. If he's concerned about saving marriages, then he might consider disbanding all sports leagues and outlawing television.

Many, if not most, sports fans like to gamble on sports to some degree. And I believe I am not out of order in saying at least 99% of sports fans who gamble on sports lose money over the course of their lifetime.

***(NOLAN) This is irrelevent. Jim Rome is not an investment advisor. He's not Kiplinger or Dobson...he's a hack, half-witted sports journalist. It doesn't matter if 99 percent of gamblers lose money. 99 percent of golfers lose money, too. 99 percent of bowlers lose money. 99.9 percent of anyone that plays sports LOSES MONEY. Some even get their bodies broken in the process. If Rome is concerned about economics, he should be advising against anyone buying season tickets to any ball club -- which is an absolutely terrible investment. From the point of view of a spectator, sports is ALL ABOUT LOSING MONEY. No one makes money, except the owners and athletes. So, a few of us struggle to make some money off the dynamics of sports. We deserve respect and an honest evaluation -- not ridicule an misrepresentation on a national radio program.

It is for this reason that I don't find too much fault in Rome's comments on winning and losing money. The fact is that the overwhelmingly vast majority of Rome's listeners will lose money if they gamble on sports long term. Be it through not putting in the required effort or succumbing to the temptation of chasing losses, most of the sports fans who like Jim Rome's style of show will be more on emotion than anything else and end up losing money.

***(NOLAN) Then this is what Rome should have stated. Instead, he chose to malign all of us and what we do. He beliittled us. He made things mroe difficult for you and for me. How? People that listen to Rome are not aware of the specifics of sports gambling and what it's all about. They are the same little minds that sit behind desks and make loan decisions on giving us a mortgage. They are the same mindless dupes that are sitting in offices judging about whether to extend credit or give us an insurance policy. They are the same radio listeners that SHAPE OUR LIVES in a innumenrable number of ways. When I put down on a mortgage or a credit card application that I am a "professional gambler" (or sports bettor), there's the flashback to Jim Rome's show where lights start flashing and red flags pop up. REJECT! Let me tell you something, Jim Rome and broadcasts like his hurt people. They make things more difficult for ALL OF US. The impede our ability to live respectable lives. They make things difficult for us to conduct our affairs responsibly. This is the great harm that is done by media misrepresentations about gambling. Furthermore, Rome's attitude poisons unknowing minds into thinking what we do is self-destructive, when (if pursued prudently) it actually ENCOURAGES greater interest in sports (to which Rome indirectly profits). Rome's got his contract. Damn the rest of society for trying to get in on the action. Athletes and owners are making millions of dollars -- at least in part -- because of sports gambling. No one wants to face the facts.

I know it is hard to defend comments which are untrue like "you can't make money". I know he should have qualified that by saying there is an infinitessimal chance of making money. But when you look at the overall greater good, qualifying that statement would likely only encourage shortsighted sports fans to try to buck the odds. The reality is that Rome turning off his fans to sports gambling would be a good thing for most of them financially.

***Is this any more harmful that what sports do to the greater mass of society -- giving millions of kids false hopes that they can make it professionally? If kids would quit wasting time (not to mention billions of tax dollars and wasted man-hours) playing sports and instead spend that time IN THE CLASSROOM, society would probably be better off. But I'm not a social-engineer. I don't have the right to tell others what they should do with their lives. Fact is, kids are going to play sports and chase their dreams -- no matter if 45,000 get crippled with injuries every single year or billions of tax dollars are wasted on stadium deals -- when there is no cure for cancer or AIDS. The average high school athlete hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell of making it as a pro. YET, SOCIETY ENCOURAGES KIDS TO TRY, spending countless hours and money in a nearly hopeless endeavor. The big difference between what we promote (gambling) and what Rome promotes (spectator sports) -- is that society is making so much money from these kids (look at the colleges/NCAA) that no one is ever gone to shut down the circus. So, we become the targets. My point -- chances of success have nothing to do with accurate reporting. Rome fumbled that ball, big time, and I'm angry about it.

Rome and the author then proceeded to comapre gambling to heroin and talk about the degenerative nature that gambling can have on relationships with friends and family.

Again, I find it unfortunate that Rome mad blanket statements like, "*every* gambler moves away from his family". I do believe, however, that a good majority of addicted gamblers do have strained relationships with friends and families due to their habit.

***(NOLAN) I notice that you qualified your statement by saying "addicted" gamblers. On this point I agree. Just like all obsessive-compulsives, addicted gamblers usually have severe personal problems. But this is only about 5 percent of society -- far less than the number who are addicted to drugs, alcohol, or credit card debt.

I know among my friends who gamble and perhaps even for myself, I often find that the time I spend researching plays and watching games often cuts into time that could be spent with people that I care about. I justify it with the money I make and the fact that it is a hobby which I enjoy, but the facts remain the same.

***(NOLAN) Your candidness is appreciated. But every serious golfer would probably say the exact same thing. So would softball players. Or, serious chess players. Computer nerds tend to also fit this profile. So do resident interns (doctors), police officers, and any number of careers and activities which are generally considered to be time-consuming and emotionally draining (hence causing alienation). For the record, I'll put the marriage of a successful gambler up against the marriage of a successful politician any day. Would you make a hypothical wager that a political leader's marriage is happier than that of an average (successful) gambler? I hope my point is clear.

As far as the comaprison to heroin, I believe that is slightly exaggerated but not far off the point. One of my good friends is a college dropout who has never made more than $20,000 in a year. During the 1999 NFL season, he lost $30,000. Now, I know that he has tried nearly every drug in the book recreationally (except heroin) and he will swear up and down that gambling is a more gripping vice than any of them. I know not much can be taken from a single example, but my point is that for many gamblers, that rush is so strong that the comparison to heroin for them is not far off.

***(NOLAN) With all due respect, Nick -- I really don't care. Sure, it's sad some people are addicted to things. And, I'll do my part to help. But I'm not going to stand by idley while the media and broadcasters like Jim Rome brainwash people and try to DEFINE ME by the excesses of a few degenerates. What I do (and you do) is a repsectable profession that merits reverence, not condemnation. Last time I checked around lost Vegas, I didn't see to many people running the streets, killing each other to get a fix. The OVERWHEWLMING MAJORIOTY of prople gamble responsibly. But, anytime gambling is reported, it's always the degenerate loser that's portrayed. It's like defining the fast-food industry by repeatedly showing pictures of 800-pound people and saying "this is what can happen to you!" While technically accurate, it's absolute nonesense.

I do agree that saying that a successful wiseguy who has been gambling for 20 years gambles for the rush is ludicrous, but the point they were making to Rome's listeners was somewhat accurate. Gambling's rush is as strong as any drug to those who are strongly addicted.

I know that Rome and the author also had some fun deriding the lifestyles of many gamblers and I don't think any of us could argue with that. Part of the freedom that gambling affords is that you can dress however you want and your appearance does not matter because you have no co-workers. I think anyone who has seen the becapped, unshaven, jean shorts-wearing masses in the average strip sportsbook would agree that sports gamblers don't display the level of traditional "class" that those who are stuck in the rat race of the corporate world become accustomed to in pursuit of corporate money.

***(NOLAN) To which I reply -- a lot of the resentment stems of jealousy. The coroporate suits would love to be able to do what we do. While the downsides are obvious, the benefits are wonderful. And -- while I consider myself to be a person of just average intelligence, I do believe Rome's anger at gambling stems from his own inability to pick games. He tried. He failed. On this point -- I once had a conversation on the radio with a Dallas broadaster named Skip Bayless. Bayless was (is) a very controversial writer who used to work for the Dallas Times Herald. He covered the Cowboys. He had a very good radio show in Dallas on KRLD ten years ago. Bayless and I got into it one day when he was railing out against the evils of sports gambling. He stated when he was a student at Okalahoma State he got buried to some bookies. I pointed out to Bayless that simply because he failed doesn't mean others could not succeed. After all sport writing calls for a different set of skills than handicapping. In fact, a sports writer is probably too BIASED to pick winners accurately. He actually agreed with me, and since then I've had great respect for Bayless for admitted his own fallicy on the air. Of course, Jim Rome would never be man enough to do that. His ego is too big.

I should point out that I think Rome went a tad overboard but the overall message to the type of sports fans who are mentally weak enough to enjoy the type of inane banter he often sells is a sound one. For most, gambling will take money from you, strain your relationships with loved ones and encourage you to exhibit "classless" social mannerisms.

***(NOLAN) So too, will golf, tennis, bowling, competitive chessplaying, all amateuer sports, spectator sports, day trading and at least five dozen different careers. Sorry Nick -- I don't buy your argument, although you are articulate and make a good case. Thanks for the opportunity to reiterate certain points.

-- NOLAN DALLA
 

He Hate Me

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Rome had a family member who was a bustout sports bettor,and I have heard Jims opinions and the guy has no clue whatoever about sports,and his listners are morons for the most part.FWIW
 

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I typically skim read the major sportsbetting forums daily. Nick and Nolan's posts are the two most thoughtful and well-reasoned posts I have ever read in a single thread. Thanks to the both of them for their time and effort.
 

Nick Douglas

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Nolan,

You know I just couldn't let this die. Here are some of my rebuttals to your rebuttals.

First of all, perhaps I was too easy on Rome for the gross inaccuracy of some of his statements. As a journalist, he should give both sides of the issue. The only argument I would have for that is: Since when is Jim Rome a jounralist? The guy has always been far more entertainment based than substance based so looking for intelligent, well researched views from Rome is like looking for polite social behavior from an NFL star. You will see it occasionally, but the nature of his business dictates that most of the time Rome will only offer cacaphonous crap.

I do not buy your comparisons to golf or bowling at all. When people take up golf or bowling as a *hobby*, they expect to spend money on it and reap some enjoyment in return. When people take up sports gambling as a *hobby*, they expect to make money along with that enjoyment. It is this unrealistic expectation which fuels so many addictions and which makes gambling far more dangerous than avid golfing, bowling or other recreational sports.

You are exactly right about Rome giving gamblers a reputation that many of them don't deserve. But you know what, a lot of pimps would argue that they don't deserve their reputation. Same with porn producers or drug dealers. Nolan, as you know, professional gamblers make their living directly off the weakness of others. That is the same as the other three professions I just mentioned. Like you have said, the benefits of this career are great, but going in you have to realize that there are prices to pay in return.

As far as the argument that sports are a plague on society, I just don't buy it. I would argue that in overall character, getting involved with sports and embracing the team concept improves social skills and just a basic ability to interact with others in life. Gambling is an isolationist hobby and I would argue that the vast majority of gamblers do not see an increase in social skills derived from the stress and hours spent gambling alone.

You compared gambling as a hobby to softball and the time enthusiasts spend away from family and loved ones and that is a somewhat fair comparison. The only problem I have with it is that gambling has shown itself to be far more emotionally (and perhaps physically) addictive and therefore even if a person wants to give up that hobby it becomes very difficult.

Your statement that the overwhelming majority of gamblers gamble responsibly is a very ambiguous statement. That really depends on how you define responsibly. Does responsibly mean a monetary loss in line with expectations going in? I would say extremely few gamblers only lose what they expect over the course of a lifetime. Most lose far, far more. If responsibility means without performing violent crime on others to support their habit, then you are exactly right. I personally think the definition of gambling responsibility is far closer to the former than the latter. I believe most gamblers view wagering as relatively harmless and have no idea going in that they will lose thousands or perhaps tens of thousands of dollars over the course of their lifetime. I don't find that to be financially responsible at all.

I do believe you are right that some of the stigma attached to the social customs of gamblers stems from jealousy but I believe that it is only natural to care about one's appearance.

I don't agree that hobbies or careers like golf or bowling or chess show their enthusiasts to display quite the level of "classless" social mannerisms that gambling does. I believe this is a function of gambling's isolationist nature.

Nolan, honestly, the main thing I have to take to task here is trying to justify gambling based on comparisons to other hobbies. As a devout professional wrestling enthusiast, it is something that I am used to seeing in that industry as well. Tell me what is good about gambling, not why it is "less bad" than other hobbies. Pro wrestlers and their fans often justify wrestling's high injury rate, death rate and instances of drug use with the argument, "well, other sports are just as bad". Who cares? Just because it can be argued that other hobbies or professions are just as bad in certain respects, that doesn't make gambling good.

Look, I am not arguing that all gamblers are bad or even that the act of gambling itself is a plague on society. We all have our vices and I am at peace with the fact that gambling is one of mine. I just think that a lot of your points are right on the money about Rome and his misrepresentation of gamblers but I don't believe his arrogance gives gambling a moral cleansing.
 

Natural Selection

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Nice discussion gentlemen.
smile.gif


For those that missed the show Nolan, Nick and others are referencing (as I did), you can go to Jim Romes site. He has the last five shows archived. This one was on May 29th and is about an hour and a half in. The segment lasts about 15 minutes.
http://mfile.akamai.com/5025/wma/jimrome.download.akamai.com/5025/shows/01/05/jimrome010529.asx


Madjack, IE or other web moderator: I hope linking this site is ok... please edit if not. I also have this radio segment converted into mp3 format. If you'd like to put it on your site (if that's possible?) I can forward it on to you.
 

MadJack

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NS, no problem with the link. we just don't allow links to touts or competing sites and have many logical reasons for the rule.

thanks for the post!

great thread, guys!
 

Nick Douglas

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Just listened to the show and I didn't think it was handled too inappropriately. Rome says, "if you are the average guy" as a qualification for a lot of his statements.

They are a bit unfair to Rodney in talking about him being a sure bet for losing all his money, but they clearly were right on the money about his social skills and relationship with his girlfriend if the stories they told were accurate.

The Alan Boston story is a bit unfair in saying the guy only gambles for the rush, but the author quote Alan as saying something to the effect of, "it is the only time I feel alive." The man may be a professional gambler, but he probably is an addict as well if that quote is corrent.

The stuff about a $500 wiseguy bet moving the line is probably a bit off, I would think. My impression from the way they were talking about it, though, was saying it does not matter how much an average guy bets on a game, the line usually only moves if it is a wiseguy making the bet. I don't know if that is 100% true or not but it does make sense.

Clearly the author is arrogant and bitter that he can't make money. Clearly Rome is in the same boat. It is also clear that those two numbskulls know little about bookmaking because having the final score fall near a number (especially in football) is a *bad* thing because then books lose both sides of teasers.

I guess the bottom line is that I don't find Rome to be overly irresponsible here. They qualify their statements about losing saying that the "average guy" can't win and that "wiseguys" are able to make a living at it. If it were an entire 3 hour show about gambling, it would be ludicrous to not bring up normal functioning people who gamble as a hobby and win money but this was only a 15 minute discussion specifically about a guy's book, and I thought they covered the subjects brought up in the book reasonably fairly.
 

Anders

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Would like to add my HO from the pt of view of a sports journalist and serious sports bettor.

Occasionally, I get the chance to listen to Jim Rome on a sports channel here in NZ that has some feeds from various US talk sports stations, when I'm driving to work at 5am or home from work sometimes at 11pm - there's those whacky hours we keep again
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I enjoy his show, but from what I've heard I certainly wouldn't call it "journalism". Junior44 disagrees and it may be that I just haven't heard enough of Rome to make an accurate judgement. But if Rome tags himself as such on his ads and promos he should be sued under the Trades Description Act (if there is one in the US). I would label him - and many, many others - as "infotainment", with a tenuous link on the first half of that cobbled together compound word/phrase. It's what a lot of "sports journalism" has now become - ego-based, "cult of personality" driven, designed to win ratings and draw in listeners by bashing one angle heavily and aggravating or delighting sports followers who want to register their approval/disapproval by ringing up or writing in. Some "cult of personality" sports journalism can be done effectively and with a lot of class - as long as that journalist can provide facts, balance and has impeccable contacts to provide information and thoughts that are releveant to the topic and well-informed. On the other side, we are force-fed a host of misinformed, gossip-as-fact ramblings. I think it was Nolan, excuse me if I'm wrong, who referred to this earlier here as appealing to the "lowest common denominator". That has, over the past few years, become my favourite phrase when referring to radio, TV,newspapers and the Web as sources of entertainemnt/information. "Reality TV" - boy, now there's a f$^#*@g great oxymoron
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- is the perfect example.

If Rome does "asks the hard questions and addresses topics other journalists are afraid to " (excuse the papaphrasing), then why didn't he ask this guy the other side of the story? Why did he crassly generalise? Yes, I know all about time/space restrictions that journos have when trying to provide balance. But there's none here. None. If you can't do it, don't try.

I've discussed thru e-mail with Nolan a couple of times his views on how sports journalists can't become winning sports bettors
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I agree with him - and I also apologise to Nolan for what I've just typed, because I'm sure Nolan would have qualified that statement by saying "almost all.."
His reasons are correct - because we are surrounded by the games almost 24 hrs a day, speak constantly to the coaches and players involved and watch so much sport, we think we know more than others. We possibly do in many cases, but the majority - 98% ? - don't have the skills to put this into practice. I have been what you may term a serious sports gambler for approximately 18 months. From start to now, I have probably learnt how to improve my skills 10-fold. And my biggest asset has been the ability to divorce my work as a sports journalist from my work as a sports bettor.

Those who have followed my previews and plays in the "Off the Wall" forum will attest that I am making money - sorry about that Romie; imagine one of your ilk able to do such a thing
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But the sports am I making a profit from are not the sports in my main rounds at work. My chief beats are cricket - leave it to the players to make money betting on that sport
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- soccer and basketball. I love those sports with a passion and write about them as such.
This year I have made cash on rugby, rugby league and Australian Rules football. I can watch them with an unattached mindset, analyse dispassionately. When I read about, watch or hear news on these three codes, I am thinking one thing only - how will this effect the spread/who will cover?

It can be done, Jim. But it takes a leviathan amount of perspiration. There's no secret; it's just like being good at any other area of employment - sweat, toil and smarts will make you a success.

But you have to have both eyes open...

[This message has been edited by Anders (edited 06-02-2001).]
 

djv

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Real good stuff guys. Love reading good exchanges. One thing I do believe. Sometimes when guys like Rome do these show over many years. Well they get to likeing them self a lot. So they say what ever, and just believe there right no matter what.
 

pepin46

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wow, some debate here with this fellow's interview.

some general comments:

it is hard to be a strict journalist in radio/tv and keep your job. these positions usually carry a degree of showmanship in order to keep/increase their audiences.

from a social point of view, i would rather have a guy say you don't have a chance than a sheister guaranteeing us money in this difficult game of handicapping.

as for addiction, i am quite familiar with it, have been close to the pits, but fortunately it did not involve a bookie giving me credit. that is the key, i believe, to losing it all. for some reason, picking up the phone and sounding real macho saying a hundred or a thousand or whatever overtakes the reality of the possible consequences involved. we all know the story that follows, double or nothing, bookie owes me, etc. end of the story and the person.

this from the point of view of the average joe. i have never been addicted to sports radio talk hosts nor cared about what they pick or think. the crap i listened to in miami was too much for me to tune in.

as for making a living off gambling, no thank you, it is a hobby, i try to be good at it, expose myself on these boards with strong opinions on games, for better or worse. i like to watch/read a good 'capper with his analysis, just like i like to write my own.

so far, i have enjoyed madjack to the outmost, and wish it could stay that way. oh yeah, i am getting internet feeble-minded, spending so much time here i forget about other places i used to go to.


pep
 

Randercity

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Just a couple of points I would like to make and those are as follows:

As far as the "dress" of many professional sports gamblers goes, the people you see in casino sportsbooks are "runners" not the "man" or group. As a former "runner" for a group out of Philadelphia (over 10 years ago) it becomes a NECESSITY to dress very informal. I worked out of Caesar's Palace, but was responsible for all the off-beat places that took alot less action, but were slow in moving their numbers. I used to PHYSICALLY RUN from the Alladin to the Frontier, when the temp was under 100, hitting all the "little places" along the way. For those of you familiar with the "old strip" of the 80's, you'll remember a little hole in the wall SPORTSBOOK called "Little Caesar's". It was where the PARIS is now I believe. I worked there as a ticket writer for a man called Gene Maday. THIS guy had balls!!! For those who know of him, you'll remember. I wasn't there long since I got asked to jump over the counter and go to work as a runner for twice the money, but I was there the day BOB STUPAK, from the infamous VEGAS WORLD, came in with his camera crew and grocery sack with $1 Million dollars to bet on the Super Bowl. Gene took his bet, I think he played CINCINATTI +7 against SAN FRAN. Gene, with the camera rolling, then moved the line on SAN FRAN to -7.5!!! LOL IT was GREAT!! He hated STUPAK, and just loved getting his goat on film. ANYWAY, back to my point.

Many runners have been robbed, beaten, and even worse killed in the course of their "job". Some, by other runners who want their route, or by thugs looking for a score. CSI, Crime Scene's Investigator's, a CBS show on Thursday night, recently did a show on the death of a "runner", as the show is based in VEGAS. (very good show btw) A guy I once "ran" with ended up on UNSOLVED MYSTERIES. When I was "running" it was not unusual for me to have $50,000 in cash and chips on me. OR, tickets to cash which are the same as cash when you lose em and don't know it. During BASKETS on a Saturday, I'd have $100,000 on me at times, carrying it in my fanny pack. I wore a t-shirt, shorts, hat, and running shoes. Believe me, when you're pounding the pavement like I was, you wanted to be comfortable. I was unusual though. MOST groups have one person at each major book, and that's it. They don't leave, or if they do, it's downtown and they cross the street or whatever, for safey reasons. Looking back, I was an easy target. I'm a little guy, only 5'4 and then about 125. I was quick, you would have had a hard time catching me, but a car door or bat out the window would have down the trick. It's scary now when I think about it, but being a naive Midwesterner new to town, it never dawned on me to get rolled. UNTIL my friend came up missing... I soon left the strip, and went to PHILLY to work out of the office.

Second point is this, ROME is NOT a sports journalist PERIOD. He's a sensationalist, an entertainer, an egotistical ass, but not a SPORTS JOURNALIST. I used to listen to him a lot when I was working, but got tired of his belittling and all the idiots in his posse. Yesterday's show, if I heard this correctly, had VINCE NEAL, the rock star on, talking about him and his band shooting herion and BOURBON, into their veins on stage!!! HE also reported on SHARON STONE's husband getting bit by the DRAGON REPTILE at the ZOO. I caught the end of his show today, and he said, "I find what VINCE did entertaining, and funny. TO do that and live is incredible. I'll continue to have people like Vince on... etc. etc. etc...." I am paraphrasing as I didn't hear word for word, but he basically said it himself, he's here to entertain, not REPORT.
 

jigs

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I enjoyed reading your post Randercity. If you have anymore stories, please share them.
 

Take Two ?

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Dear Earl:

I was amazed that you said that when Tiger met Nelson Mandela, he finally had met a person who was his equal.

Obviously, he hasn't met Jim Rome yet.

Yours truly, Jim Rome

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bmc

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Mo.
It's natural for those of us who follow sports to check ESPN from time to time, but the sarcasm of their syndicated jerks can sure get tiresome.
The guy before Rome isn't any better.
Yesterday he caused me to switch stations to NPR.
Do the majority of listners really enjoy hearing someone try to be unpleasant, or is that just the perception of producers and program directors?
Maybe Rush's cult following has made ranting the latest craze.
 
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