Open letter concerning the Aces Gold Contest Rant

[JD]

I don't often take issue on posting forums. After-all, opinion is all relative anyway, but I'm a bit confused and taken aback by the rant that is posted on the Aces Gold Contest thread.
I want to point out in advance that I mean no disrespect here, I am being sincere.

Ok, so you want to have "New-Member's Only" contest. Well, that's fine. It should work great for all sponsors involved, but regarding the "rant"....

1) How is it "giving away money" by sponsoring a contest? Sportsbooks are basically paying for the advertising and name recognition by sponsoring a contest. This is cheap by today's advertising standards. Since there's so many books out there now, this name recognition point becomes doubly important. Simply having a banner on a site isn't convincing for most serious gamblers. Furthermore, the player is required to gamble the amount of money won before making any withdrawals. At that point, the money belongs to the gambler. If he wins, it has been rightfully earned. (twice actually if you include the contest). How many of those contest "floaters" that you mention simply gamble the prize money away and never take a withdrawal? Most of them I gather. Then the book loses nothing and still has the gain of familiarity and positive perception with all the gamblers at the site (and their friends) by sponsoring a contest. Hell, I have empty accounts here and there. It doesn't mean that I'm not going to come back and post up again at some point. Also, I'm not sure about overseas tax laws, but shouldn't prizes awarded qualify as some kind of tax writeoff?

2) A sportsbook is not necessarily solid just because they sponsor a contest. Places still go belly-up whether they sponsor a contest or not. This example is arbitrary and I'm not saying that Aces is anything but honorable, but any old fly-by-night book could do what you are doing here and make a killing before disappearing into the night. This is a great deal for Aces. I recognize that Aces Gold is putting up some impressive prizes, but hell, they are guaranteed $10,000 in post-ups so far, (based on 50 entries) so good for them. And good luck to you all. I sincerely hope this works out great for Mad Jack's, Aces and all the players. I like you guys and love the site. Personally though, I have to abide by my own values. I'm not going to pony up based just on the fact that they sponsor a contest. If I did post up with them, it'd because I did my homework on them, I had confidence in them and liked their odds and customer service. I haven't checked them out yet, but if I had in the past and I liked them, then I'd be with them now. But then of course, I wouldn't be eligible for the contest now would I? (with out $200 more deposited, how would THAT make me feel as a supposed valued customer!?) Plenty of shops have been touted by very reputable individuals and organizations such as this and still go bad. (thus screwing all those with contest deposits) If $200 is chump change to deposit for us sports gamblers, then surely the prize money involved is chump change to a multi-million dollar company. Especially when they often won't end up shelling it all out in real $$ in the end. (the trip to Vegas being the exception here, but again, this case is different based on all the guaranteedpost-ups) I like contests and it's fun competing against my peers and all, but I can easily live without them. I have plenty of my own action to keep me happy. But your rant sounds to me like the old Publisher's Clearinghouse pitch where they pressure you to BUY-BUY-BUY and improve your chances at winning the big prize. It just doesn't sit right with me, so I'll be "sitting" this one out. No malice or offense intended, just how I feel, so it's my problem, not yours.

3) If a winner gambles away his winnings with the book, but either doesn't like the customer service, the website, or the odds, then why should he feel obligated to post up additional cash? I'm sure we've all dealt with books that we just didn't feel right or confident about. Hey, the winner gave the book a shot, lost the winnings, but decided that he wanted to move on. Who loses unless the same player(s) repeatedly win and immediately WITHDRAW the cash ASAP when eligible? If that's the case, wouldn't the book have him flagged like they do to all the sharpies? And If he's winning, then there is no need to post up additional funds. At what point do you consider the money he's won, gambled and earned over the next few months (or years) as his?

Again, if you could clarify, it'd be appreciated. I'm not looking for a flame war or anything. I do not have the time for that nonsense and will not participate in any kind of war of words. I'd delete the post if it came to that. I'm just wondering if perhaps you could provide some examples of those "same, repeat winners" who you say have taken so much money from the industry. I'm curious....

Thank you and good luck to you all.

[This message has been edited by JD (edited 08-17-2001).]

 

[MadJack]

I'm a bit confused and taken aback by the rant that is posted on the Aces Gold Contest thread.

I guess it is a 'rant' although it wasn't intended to be when I wrote it.

First, it was MY idea that I presented to Aces Gold. I wanted to do something different. I wanted the contest played by people that really posted up with offshore sportsbooks.

There are so many contests, everywhere, that it really doesn't pay for the books to have them. I've talked to many sportsbook ownwers that feel the same way and have told me that.

Why do they do it? Because everybody else does it. Pressure? I don't know. It does make them stick out a 'little' more than the books that don't have the contests. Does it help business? Unlikely, because, like I said, they ALL are having them.

Why do websites have the contests? Because they all have them. Pressure? Maybe, because it does draw traffic and that's what we want.

I was just trying to think of a way to have a fun contest with limited entries and provide an incentive for people to post up with a quality sportsbook. If you're going to post up with a shop anyway, why not try Aces Gold and possibly win some cash and a trip? The first prize is CASH and NOT a betting account that could or would be lost back.

The trip and the tee-shirts are put up by ME, with MY money, so I want to make sure the book and I get some value. Aces Gold pays me to advertise on this site and this is my way of giving something back and making sure they get 'real' players. The trip will cost me about $500, or more, and the shirts will cost me about $600 based on 50 entries ($9 shirt and $3.50 shipping), not to mention the time that goes into one of these things.

Sure, the contest isn't for everybody. It's for the people that support madjacks and post up real money with our sponsors. We'd love to have you but if it offends you in any way, please don't participate. This is strictly a voluntary decision for people that want to support this site.

There's no need for a "flame" war. You're entitled to your opinion and it will be your choice whether or not you play. I can't make everybody happy but I do try to be as helpful as possible and try to provide people with the best information out here.

There was no "malice or offense" taken.

good luck out there and thanks for the post!

-Jack

 

[JD]

Understood.

Good point about this being a "cash" contest and not an account credit.

Thank you for the clarification. I suppose it was the rant itself rather than the contest postup rule that rubbed me wrong. Kinda made me feel like some freeloading knob for playing a free contest here and there...

FWIW, winning a free contest(s) has gotten me into certain book(s) that I may not have tried otherwise. So it does have some pluses for the sponsor, though your point about contest, player/floater and sponsor overload is well taken.

Good Luck to you all.

[This message has been edited by JD (edited 08-17-2001).]

 

[kosar]

I have wondered for a long time why the sites have not yet (until now) gone to some sort of deal like this.

When you see the enormous amount of people that come out of the woodwork to play in the 'free' contests all over the net, you really have to wonder how many of these people post-up with the sponsor, or even go to the book's site to check it out. I would guess maybe 10%.

Name recognition? Yes. But even take JD as an example and multiply it by xxxx. Ace's Gold has gotten top billing at this site for a long-time, so the name recognition has to be there among the players. Yet JD is still not sold on them. So take a whole lot of 'JD's' and this 'name recognition' is totally worthless to a whole lot of people.

This is not a knock on JD at all, it's just the way that it happens.

The most efficient way to get player's into a book is to get them into the book. It's sounds simple, but it really isn't. That's why this idea is a good one, even if it's 'only' 40-50 people who post-up or add $200. This is much more valuable to the book than 179 people who couldn't even tell you who is sponsoring the contest, let alone giving the book a try.

Another factor that mitigates the $200 'rule' and makes this contest different is that the winnings are paid in cash, not a betting acct that has to be turned over several times. That in itself should be worth the 'price of admission'. Not to mention the Vegas trip.

Everything above ignores the fact that Aces Gold/Sportsmarket is a top-notch book with nice limits and they don't boot winners of any type. They also have vig-free Fridays during the football season, which obviously is extremely valuable.

I play in maybe 2 or 3 contests all year between all of the sites, but I am going to be sure to get in this one. I think that all contests should have these types of stipulations, but that's just me.

 

[Nick Douglas]

I agree with kosar and Jack 100%. Little piddly contest are okay for mediocre sites but in this one it is sac up time. Put your $200 on the table (and it's not like you are giving the money away, you are still able to play it like normal) and let's see who is the best.

For Ace's Gold this is a great contest. Given that something like 5-8% of every NFL dollar wagered goes back to the book, they are gonna make out just fine. For the players it is great, too, because it weeds out the riff raff and gives us incentive to try a new book we might like. If not, big deal. We can always cash out if we don't like the book after a few weeks.

 

[dawgball]

I think the way all angles were presented was very professional. I am happy to see the contest be paid for because I feel it will make it a closer group for competition. The golf contest, for example, has a ton of people in it that never post. That's okay, but I like to talk a little BS when we're fighting it out. I guess that's the KY redneck in me.

But like JD said, the books do make money off of most contest. I finished last in the golf contest one week. I had no intention of putting any money to Grand Central, but when I got the $25 account, I added a little to it. I ended up losing it very quickly. They didn't make a ton of money off of me, but they did make $100 (I think). If this happens with every winner of the accounts, then the contest pays for itself in no time.

To sum up, I think both sides have great points. I am very happy that this will be a controlled contest, though. I can't wait to show these boys (and girls, if any) a thing or two about cappin' the NFL.

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Sic 'em
dawgball

[This message has been edited by dawgball (edited 08-17-2001).]

 

[goldcupsports]

I agree with Kosar. Go figure. I think making a player post up for a conest should have been done long long ago. This will make it much easier for the folks that grade these contest.

 

[TIME TO MAKE $$$]

Boy when I first saw the subject line of this thread I thought we were going to have a war, glad to see the professionalism in this post.

Jd, you make some good points but I think Jack has cleared the air and I see that it is fine with you.

Good Luck

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ROLL THE DICE