Panel: Start withdrawing from Iraq

[StevieD]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061206/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq

By ANNE PLUMMER FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writer
3 minutes ago



A commission on the war in Iraq recommended new and enhanced diplomacy Wednesday so the United States can "begin to move its combat forces" out of the country responsibly.

"The situation in Iraq is grave and deteriorating," the commission warned after an eight-month review of a conflict that has killed more than 2,800 U.S. troops and grown increasingly unpopular at home. The report was obtained by The Associated Press.

The report warned that if the situation continues to deteriorate, there is a risk of a "slide toward chaos (that) could trigger the collapse of Iraq's government and a humanitarian catastrophe."

"Neighboring countries could intervene. ....The global standing of the United States could be diminished. Americans could become more polarized," commissioners said.

President Bush received the report in an early morning meeting at the White House with commission members, and pledged to treat each proposal seriously and act in a "timely fashion." He was flanked by the commission's co-chairmen, former Secretary of State James A. Baker III, and former Rep. Lee Hamilton,

The report painted a grim picture of Iraq more than three years after U.S. forces toppled Saddam Hussein.

"Violence is increasing in scope and lethality," the commission warned. That was a blunt rebuttal of claims of sustained progress that the administration had made until recently.

Bush said he told the 10 commission members that his administration will take their report, called "The Way Forward, "very seriously.

"This report gives a very tough assessment of the situation in Iraq," Bush said. "It is a report that brings some really very interesting proposals, and we will take every proposal seriously and we will act in a timely fashion."

He also urged members of Congress to give the report a hard look.

"While they won't agree with every proposal, and we probably won't agree with every proposal, it nevertheless is an opportunity to come together and to work together on this important issue," Bush said.

 

[gardenweasel]

i turned on the news this morning and i thought i had the wrong channel......i thought i was watching "Cocoon III"........

...that was a very balanced article...as was leaked(lol), it’s somewhat about defeat and retreat....but,it did say out "by 2008",which the writer failed to mention(if i read it correctly).....and they also said the goal was to get iraq to the point that it can defend itself.....



flipside,it advocates “dialog” with our worst enemies, including turning our backs on lebanon to deal with syria.....and dealing with the madman who, with exquisite timing, just told the west to convert or die....

""Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has warned Western leaders to follow the path of God or “vanish from the face of the earth”.

“These oppressive countries are angry with us ... a nation that on the other side of the globe has risen up and proved the ""shallowness of their power,""”(amen,mahmood) Ahmadinejad said in a speech in the northern town of Ramsar, the semi-official news agency Mehr reported Wednesday.

“They are angry with our nation. But we tell them ‘so be it and die from this anger’. Rest assured that"""" if you do not respond to the divine call, you will die soon and vanish from the face of the earth,”""" he said.

The outspoken president also maintained Iran’s defiance over its controversial nuclear programme, saying it was on course to fully master nuclear technology.

“Thank to God’s help, we have gone all the way and are only one step away from the zenith. We hope to have the big nuclear celebration by the end of the year (March 2007),” Ahmadinejad said, echoing comments he has made on numerous occasions in recent months.

"he would love us if not for israel" /james baker:lol:

convert or die....kinda tough to negotiate that one....

 

[StevieD]

Maybe we should send Weasel to negotiate. No one would have a clue what they were agreeing to!:shrug: :shrug:
I guess the neocon blogs are having a problem coming up with an answer to the findings.

 

[kosar]

Some random senator goes to Iraq, is treated to surf and turf, never leaves the Green Zone because of death risk, comes back and tells everyone how much progress is being made. Weasel(and Wayne, for that matter) splashes that crap all over the forum every time it happens.

Butttttt........a bi-partisan panel determines, after actually investigating and at least TRIES to look at things a little more in-depth, offers a few different ideas (why?? this current plan is going swimmingly) and Weasel goes on some rant about Irans nutty leader.

Yeah, now that I think about it, that seems about right.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Weasel,

I take it Jim Baker (former chief of staff for Ronald Reagan and Sec. of State for Bush Sr.) is now an America hating liberal who just wants to appease our enemies and see us fail?

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Was watching the questions and answers from reporters to committe and come away with entirely diff read than yahoo article.
Same thing as everyone else--we can't afford to lose and no solutions.In fact just opposite of yahoo's take they advised 20,000 more troops for training purposes???
Bottom line of my take they were trying to straddle the fence and appease both sides.

 

[kosar]

Was watching the questions and answers from reporters to committe and come away with entirely diff read than yahoo article.
Same thing as everyone else--we can't afford to lose and no solutions.In fact just opposite of yahoo's take they advised 20,000 more troops for training purposes???
Bottom line of my take they were trying to straddle the fence and appease both sides.

Whether right or wrong, they offered 79 new recommendations to try to get this thing on track and it is already being ridiculed, as if things are going so great that we don't need any fresh ideas.

They advised to send more American trainers of the Iraqi forces, yes, that seems like a good idea if we are going to give this thing one more push.

Nobody expects W to implement all these ideas, but for f*cks sake, he can't ignore all of them. Can he?

The condition there is about as bad as one could imagine after us having 140,000 troops there for the last 3.5 years.

If W MUST keep us there, then try SOMETHING, ANYTHING different, while (not) understanding that civil war will ensue no matter what we do or how long we stay.

He needs to stop pretending that his 'course' in Iraq is anything but a total failure.

 

[danmurphy jr]

10 more dead today and the beat goes on.
Where would you rather die, Cleveland or Iraq?

 

[The Sponge]

We lost its over there is no way of winning this thing. These soldiers are in an impossible situation. You know who won? That so called madman Zacarwi. He won. He out thought the neocons by killing Sunni's to start this civil war. Although he paid the ultimate price he leaves a legacy. One man out thought all these neocons creeps who know nothing about war except profiting from them. They excel in this area.
By the way another commission called the 9/11 commission had a lot of proposals and Bush threw them right into the trash can. He knows every thing this neocon nitwit. He looked into Putin's soul and saw a great man. A man who should be put on trial for poisoning a former spy. Never saw one president wrong on so many different fronts. This guy is an embarrassment to this country. He loves to talk about his instincts. Like Biden once said. "his instincts stink."

 

[djv]

5 Reb, 5 Dem agree on findings. Sounds like how the government is supposed to work. Some very good folks on that panel. I wonder if Bush is smart enough to understand they gave him about 5 ways to save him self from the stay the course losing proposition.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

"Where would you rather die, Cleveland or Iraq?"

Iraq-hands down
I don't see much honor or gratification be victim of drive by-aids-or some other crime--but to
each their own.
--Had you asked where I would rather "live" would have required much more thought

Cleveland was the city with the highest poverty rate last year, at 32.4 percent, while San Jose had the lowest, at 9.7 percent.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"We lost its over there is no way of winning this thing. These soldiers are in an impossible situation. You know who won?

Believe that is just wishful thinking on your part Sponge Bob. You really think a bunch of rag heads could defeat our military--now keeping them from killing themselves is diff story--but then again same shit goes on in inner cities in U.S. and no one can stop it either.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now if we can turn to more productive issues such as how to turn things around--

Don't see much in report I disagree with but don't see much that hasn't been said before.

The one fresh idea that was in contradiction of GW's plan was negotiating with Iran and Syria.
While I think Iran would be counter productive I do see something that may be solution "if" it can be done--and has not really been discussed publically that I know of--a comment by Britt Hume after interview with Baker was quite interesting. Britt said after interview as Baker was walking away he turned back and remarked "the key is flipping Syria" which was quite a diff angle.
Several ways to interpret it but my thinking with both Iran and Syria wanting to help in negotiations--split them by offering one the carrot and the other the stick.
A longshot--but possible.

 

[gardenweasel]

Some random senator goes to Iraq, is treated to surf and turf, never leaves the Green Zone because of death risk, comes back and tells everyone how much progress is being made. Weasel(and Wayne, for that matter) splashes that crap all over the forum every time it happens.

Butttttt........a bi-partisan panel determines, after actually investigating and at least TRIES to look at things a little more in-depth, offers a few different ideas (why?? this current plan is going swimmingly) and Weasel goes on some rant about Irans nutty leader.

Yeah, now that I think about it, that seems about right.

first off...for wocky....baker`s a buchannan style fossil....a joo basher that thinks that israel is the reason for the entire radical islamist problem...ignoring obvious clues like the cartoon riots,the french suburbs,somalia,india,chechnya,darfur and on and on....

for kosar...not even a smirk at the "cocoon3" comment?...ohh well...:shrug:

"fresh faces" with "new ideas"?....lol

bro,what`s really different here?.....other than capitulation to the enemy?....the panel`s goal was "bi-partisanship"....not victory or even success....

it was an inside the beltway circle jerk....self indulgence...a blue ribbon panel of arrogant bureaucrats...self-appointed wise men and women to deliver their pre-existing opinions as newly certified.....

sandra day o connor and vernon jordan?....experts on foriegn policy?....not...

read this and try not to giggle...

""Given the ability of Iran and Syria to influence events within Iraq and their interest in avoiding chaos in Iraq, the United States should try to engage them constructively. In seeking to influence the behavior of both countries, the United States has disincentives and incentives available. Iran should stem the flow of arms and training to Iraq, respect Iraq's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and use its influence over Iraqi Shia groups to encourage national reconciliation. The issue of Iran's nuclear programs should continue to be dealt with by the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council plus Germany. Syria should control its border with Iraq to stem the flow of funding, insurgents and terrorists in and out of Iraq.""

based on this report,we also need to engage in dialogue with the crips, bloods, and mara salvatruchas about improving security in our cities.....they should stem the flow of arms to drug dealers and other gangsters, and they should also be kind to puppies and kittens.....

it`s like hiring an arsonist to work for the fire dept....

some of this is downright laughable...baker(who has the house of saud`s hand so far up his ass you can see their fingers protruding from his nostrils),keeps saying that it`s in iran and syria`s best interests to have a stable iraq....???

since when?....if so,then why have they been working feverishly to de-stabilize iraq for the past 3 years?.....with great success,i might add...

the have us in the throes of cutting and running...and we`re apparently helpless...and/or unwilling or without the resolve to stop their nuclear program.....

what`s their incentive?.....to cooperate in the formation of a more balanced, non-shia dominated iraq?.......their plan is working like a charm....they love this report.....

baker`s delusional...

he also wants syria to fully comply and assist with the investigation into the assassination of lebanese politicians geymayel and arriri?....when everyone knows that they were behind the murders?......

and that`s not all...they want the u.n. security council to fully handle the iranian nuclear issue(
you know what that means,i`m sure).....children of israel,get under your desks and fold your hands over your heads....

he wants israel to give up the golan heights(has israel been que`d on this yet?)...lol

we saw how well land for peace has worked in the past....(the gaza strip)...

what in the world can the u.s. give the islamic republic of iran and the assad in syria that they don`t have already?.....

given our lack of resolve, their question has to be,"can the americans actually hurt us?"......and the answer has to be "no".... they know we we have no will..... what has syria and iran lost by the turmoil in iraq?......if the violence in iraq diminished, would they lose or gain?......

baker`s an old fool....delusional...some of his premises are ridiculous...

what in the world can the u.s. give the islamic republic of iran and the assad in syria that they don`t have already?.....

i feel like I've seen all this before, only last time it was czechoslovakia rather than israel that was thrown to the wolves.....

 

[gardenweasel]

and let me add...to be fair....that i`m not absolving bush and the republicans of blame in this mess...i`m not talking just iraq....it`s much,much bigger than iraq or israel....and it`s all interconnected... ...if you go to root causes....

the west has allowed itself to be put in a position where m.e. oil production is so critical to our economies....even without an opec oil embargo, some $10 trillion (that's ten million million dollars) of western money has flowed into opec coffers.....

we've gotten poorer, they've gotten richer, and they've used part of that money to spread islamist radicalism and terrorism.....

our fears of oil price increases, let alone an oil cutoff, continually hamstring our ability to exert our will in the middle east.....the question of oil hangs over everything we say and everything we do...

it`s so important that it`s worth war...it`s worth almost anything at this point...and if you have nuclear weapons and control of a decent portion of the world`s oil,it`s ballgame fellas........

i admit many conservatives just duck this issue.... they're consumed with free trade and non-interference with the economy,the big oil lobby and an infatuation with conspicuous consumption.....and that`s bullshit...

that`s right,i agree with you...

but,of course the dems need to get off the damned dime and let us drill anywhere we have to lesssen our oil dependence on hugo and the middle east and we have to immediately start getting deadly serious about alternative fuel....and stop trying to hamstring our ability to defend the country with bogus,straw man,politically motivated civil liberties arguments...

hopefully,the dem. congress,now responsible for it`s actions, will make these utmost priorities........

i`ll say it again.....yep the old lenin quote....about hanging the west and we capitalists selling him the rope......

how fricking profound is that quote?....

i`m paranoid.....i know.....i have good reason...

i hope that sates your gardenweasel bloodlust...a little.....