Pete Rose!!!!!
- Thread starter SmashMouth
- Start date
smash,
man, i agree.
i just don't understand this whole pete rose deal.
i mean, i'm not gonna vouch for his personality, even say i like him, or what i've seen of him, but what does that matter?
he was one of the greatest baseball players ever.
man, i agree.
i just don't understand this whole pete rose deal.
i mean, i'm not gonna vouch for his personality, even say i like him, or what i've seen of him, but what does that matter?
he was one of the greatest baseball players ever.
If Pete Rose sat down with Selig today, said man I am so sorry I'm an idiot I bet on baseball, I shouldnt have, please forgive me.
He would be ON THE BALLOT TOMORROW and most likely a first ballot Hall of Famer.
The fact that he continues to deny what he did makes me puke. I think he should be in the Hall but I also think he is a pigheaded idiot of a man.
He would be ON THE BALLOT TOMORROW and most likely a first ballot Hall of Famer.
The fact that he continues to deny what he did makes me puke. I think he should be in the Hall but I also think he is a pigheaded idiot of a man.
I am too young to remember watching him play (I was 4 years old when he took his last swing in '86), but after seeing his many highlights throughout his career, there is no doubt he has a true passion for the game and was one of the greatest baseball players of all time. I think, without a doubt, his baseball accomplishments should put him in the hall of fame. However, the fact that he gambled on his own games, let alone baseball, is shameful. On the other hand, I do think he has paid his price. It's time to cut the bullshit. Like acehistr8 posted, suck it up, swallow pride, and admit you screwed it up. ESPN's Jim Caple wrote an article on last night's pre-game ceremonies which included Rose. Although I don't necessarily agree with some of his points, I found it an interesting read. Jim Capel's take
Rose may be a jerk (bumped into him a few times at Santa Anita and he was always nice and polite to people), but his baseball career justifies a place in the hall. Or maybe baseball thinks that Daryl Strawberry (wife beater, drug addict) would be a better representative. I know this is a non-sequiter, but the average fan in the seats wants Pete in the Hall.
I feel that the banning of Pete Rose is a huge social issue in the baseball world to this day. There are a majority of people who believe that Pete should be forgiven and let into the Hall of Fame, but there are many who feel he should never again be a part of baseball. This topic still reigns as one of the biggest national issues concerning the morals of baseball. Should baseball forgive Pete for his alleged wrong-doings? Should they keep him away from baseball so they look like heroes trying to keep the corrupt things out? The real question is, should Peter Edward Rose be allowed in the Hall of Fame? That is for the fan to decide.
One of Pete Rose's greatest feats was the night he broke Ty Cobb's 57 year old record of 4191 career hits. Here is how Marty Brenneman and Joe Nuxhall called the game that infamous night:
Brenneman: One out...and here comes the main attraction...And they're on their feet...Rose walking towards the plate...That number on his back emblazoned on the minds of sports fans probably forever and ever...The most famous number 14 in the history of this game...And trying to make history right now in the first inning tonight....He levels the bat a couple of times, Show (the pitcher) kicks and he fires...Rose swings... Nuxhall: There it is! There it is! Get out! Get out!...All right! All right! Brenneman: Line drive, left center field, and there it is! Hit number forty-one-ninety-two...A line drive single into left center field...A clean base hit, and it is pandemonium here at Riverfront Stadium...The fireworks exploding overhead...Rose is completely encircled at first base...And a kind of outpouring of adulation that I don't think you'll ever see an athlete get any more of...Little Pete fighting his way through the crowd, and Pete being hoisted on the shoulders of a couple of his teammates... Nuxhall: Quite a base hit...Ha ha...Yes it is, yessir...
Four years after that hit, Peter Edward Rose was banned for life from baseball because of allegedly betting on baseball games. Ty Cobb?s open admission to murdering a man did not stop him from entering the Hall of Fame, so why should something that was never proven stop Pete Rose from being in it? Many players today are getting three, four and even five chances to make amends with baseball. None of them are banned today. No even ill-tempered, anger-driven, alcoholic Albert Belle of the Chicago White Sox. Today is the day of rehabilitation and forgiveness. Why won't baseball forgive Pete Rose?
Pete Rose's numbers and achievements are astounding as compared to any player who ever played the game of baseball. Pete, also known as Charlie Hustle, a nickname given to him in spring training by the great Yankee pitcher Whitey Ford, won Rookie of the Year honors in 1963. From then, he played an amazing 24 years, a superhuman feat for baseball. In that span, he has a .303 lifetime average with three batting titles in 1968, 1969, and 1973. In the record books, he is first in games played with 3,562, first in at-bats with 14,053 and first in hits, topping the late Ty Cobb by 65 hits with 4,256. He is second in doubles behind only the great Tris Speaker, fourth in runs with 2,165, and tenth in base-on-balls with 1,566. There have been tens of thousands of players ever to grace the game of baseball with their presence. For Pete to hold such high places in these records is a sensational feat, almost as if Pete were a superhero tearing through the barriers of doubt, hardship and pain. Pete is the only person in Major League history to play 500 games at five different positions; 939 at first base, 628 at second base, 634 at third base, 671 in right field, and 595 in left field. All of these record certainly makes him one of the greatest players in Major League Baseball history.
Pete was also known for his attitude toward the game. Instead of trotting down to first base after a walk, he ran full speed as if running out a close grounder. He would slide head first into bases and bowl over opponents if they were in his way. His attitude got him respect from his fellow Major Leaguers.
Pete was also known as an aggressive better. During the 1987 season, he allegedly bet from $9,500 to $19,000 a day through his mutual friend, Paul Janszen who served six months in jail for tax evasion involving the sale of steroids. Janszen said that he once heard Pete talking out loud about selling cocaine to get money to keep gambling. Pete once told of how a bookie threatened to burn his house down and break his children's legs if he didn't pay him. Pete was said to have sold off his memorabilia to pay off his gambling debts. His solution was always to win his way out of debt. At one time, he allegedly owed from $600,000 to $900,000 to bookies in 1989. Pete's aggressive betting led the Commissioner of Baseball, A. Bartlett Giamatti to investigate if he really did bet on baseball games.
Through the investigation of Pete Rose's betting on baseball, he was defiant about doing so. He denied betting on anything other than horse races. Rose once said, "I'd be willing to bet you, if I was a betting man, that I have never bet on baseball." He was known to hang around gamblers and known drug dealers. In 1989, a man named John Dowd prepared a 225 page report against Rose. In that report, nine people came forward and told of Pete's betting on baseball. Rose was implicated on betting on games that he managed or played in, pointing to the fact that he might have thrown a game to obtain money. Rose's lawyers and Major League Baseball fought back and forth for months on what punishment Rose should get. Both sides broke off talks in July but got back together again on August 16. After that meeting Rose signed a settlement that would ban him from baseball only if Giamatti promised to keep an open mind about reinstating him in one year. That settlement said that Rose would have to drop his lawsuit on baseball that said that he was given an unfair investigator and a prejudiced commissioner. The settlements said the Rose could apply for reinstatement in one year, which was a Major League rule for banned players. The agreement did not say anywhere that Pete bet on baseball, but it didn't say that he didn't. Rose said that he agreed to the banning to avoid further damage to baseball, thus, cutting through his rough outside to show his soft love for the game. Even though, Rose's lawyers kept fighting to say that Pete was banned for other reasons than betting on baseball, rather his questionable associations and illegal wagers he admitted making on football and basketball games. The settlement said that Rose violated Major League Rule 12 which states: "Anyone found to have bet on games involving his team is declared permanently ineligible," and, "Anyone found to have engaged in unspecified conduct not in the best interests of baseball can also be ruled permanently ineligible". The agreement Rose signed never said which part of the rule he violated. Rose still lives with his banishment from baseball, hoping that some day it will finally and deservedly be lifted.
There are numerous baseball players that come to mind when thinking about players who have committed crimes and done things against the law. One of them is Ty Cobb. Ty Cobb's records are also very astounding as compared to Pete Rose. His 36 steals of home still stands in the record books. He is first in batting average with and average of .367, first in batting titles with 12, first in runs with 2245 and second in hits with 4191 only behind Pete Rose. His records are wonderful, but he still holds fewer than Charlie Hustle.
Cobb's attitude also got him far in baseball, only not the way Pete's did. Players came to fear Cobb. He sharpened his spikes before games so to let opponents know that if they wanted to tag him out, they'd almost certainly take a trip to the emergency room. He wasn't liked by many for his over-aggressiveness which he says was caused by teammates taunting him as a rookie. As plainly stated, Pete Rose's and Ty Cobb's attitude toward baseball were completely opposite.
While in his playing career, Ty Cobb admitted to killing a man. Cobb was walking down the street when a man supposedly jumped him with a knife. Cobb, who pulled out a gun, couldn't make it fire, so the man slit him up the back with his knife. The man then fled into a dead-end alley where Cobb beat him to death with the gun. "I used that gun sight to rip and slash and tear him for about ten minutes until he had no face left. Left him there, not breathing, in his own blood," Cobb once said.
Cobb was also accused of fixing a Detroit-Cleveland game back on September 25, 1919. Cobb, Tris Speaker, Hubert "Dutch" Leonard and Joe Wood wagered $5,500 on the game because they knew the outcome. The man who gave the money to a bookie implicated the four. Later, Leonard came out about the fixing as payback for Cobb cutting him from Detroit and for Speaker not claiming him off waivers. Cobb and Speaker were suspended which was eventually lifted with their acquittal. As a person can plainly see, Tyrus Raymond Cobb was much worse than Pete Rose but ironically was the very first man to enter the Hall of Fame.
One of Pete Rose's greatest feats was the night he broke Ty Cobb's 57 year old record of 4191 career hits. Here is how Marty Brenneman and Joe Nuxhall called the game that infamous night:
Brenneman: One out...and here comes the main attraction...And they're on their feet...Rose walking towards the plate...That number on his back emblazoned on the minds of sports fans probably forever and ever...The most famous number 14 in the history of this game...And trying to make history right now in the first inning tonight....He levels the bat a couple of times, Show (the pitcher) kicks and he fires...Rose swings... Nuxhall: There it is! There it is! Get out! Get out!...All right! All right! Brenneman: Line drive, left center field, and there it is! Hit number forty-one-ninety-two...A line drive single into left center field...A clean base hit, and it is pandemonium here at Riverfront Stadium...The fireworks exploding overhead...Rose is completely encircled at first base...And a kind of outpouring of adulation that I don't think you'll ever see an athlete get any more of...Little Pete fighting his way through the crowd, and Pete being hoisted on the shoulders of a couple of his teammates... Nuxhall: Quite a base hit...Ha ha...Yes it is, yessir...
Four years after that hit, Peter Edward Rose was banned for life from baseball because of allegedly betting on baseball games. Ty Cobb?s open admission to murdering a man did not stop him from entering the Hall of Fame, so why should something that was never proven stop Pete Rose from being in it? Many players today are getting three, four and even five chances to make amends with baseball. None of them are banned today. No even ill-tempered, anger-driven, alcoholic Albert Belle of the Chicago White Sox. Today is the day of rehabilitation and forgiveness. Why won't baseball forgive Pete Rose?
Pete Rose's numbers and achievements are astounding as compared to any player who ever played the game of baseball. Pete, also known as Charlie Hustle, a nickname given to him in spring training by the great Yankee pitcher Whitey Ford, won Rookie of the Year honors in 1963. From then, he played an amazing 24 years, a superhuman feat for baseball. In that span, he has a .303 lifetime average with three batting titles in 1968, 1969, and 1973. In the record books, he is first in games played with 3,562, first in at-bats with 14,053 and first in hits, topping the late Ty Cobb by 65 hits with 4,256. He is second in doubles behind only the great Tris Speaker, fourth in runs with 2,165, and tenth in base-on-balls with 1,566. There have been tens of thousands of players ever to grace the game of baseball with their presence. For Pete to hold such high places in these records is a sensational feat, almost as if Pete were a superhero tearing through the barriers of doubt, hardship and pain. Pete is the only person in Major League history to play 500 games at five different positions; 939 at first base, 628 at second base, 634 at third base, 671 in right field, and 595 in left field. All of these record certainly makes him one of the greatest players in Major League Baseball history.
Pete was also known for his attitude toward the game. Instead of trotting down to first base after a walk, he ran full speed as if running out a close grounder. He would slide head first into bases and bowl over opponents if they were in his way. His attitude got him respect from his fellow Major Leaguers.
Pete was also known as an aggressive better. During the 1987 season, he allegedly bet from $9,500 to $19,000 a day through his mutual friend, Paul Janszen who served six months in jail for tax evasion involving the sale of steroids. Janszen said that he once heard Pete talking out loud about selling cocaine to get money to keep gambling. Pete once told of how a bookie threatened to burn his house down and break his children's legs if he didn't pay him. Pete was said to have sold off his memorabilia to pay off his gambling debts. His solution was always to win his way out of debt. At one time, he allegedly owed from $600,000 to $900,000 to bookies in 1989. Pete's aggressive betting led the Commissioner of Baseball, A. Bartlett Giamatti to investigate if he really did bet on baseball games.
Through the investigation of Pete Rose's betting on baseball, he was defiant about doing so. He denied betting on anything other than horse races. Rose once said, "I'd be willing to bet you, if I was a betting man, that I have never bet on baseball." He was known to hang around gamblers and known drug dealers. In 1989, a man named John Dowd prepared a 225 page report against Rose. In that report, nine people came forward and told of Pete's betting on baseball. Rose was implicated on betting on games that he managed or played in, pointing to the fact that he might have thrown a game to obtain money. Rose's lawyers and Major League Baseball fought back and forth for months on what punishment Rose should get. Both sides broke off talks in July but got back together again on August 16. After that meeting Rose signed a settlement that would ban him from baseball only if Giamatti promised to keep an open mind about reinstating him in one year. That settlement said that Rose would have to drop his lawsuit on baseball that said that he was given an unfair investigator and a prejudiced commissioner. The settlements said the Rose could apply for reinstatement in one year, which was a Major League rule for banned players. The agreement did not say anywhere that Pete bet on baseball, but it didn't say that he didn't. Rose said that he agreed to the banning to avoid further damage to baseball, thus, cutting through his rough outside to show his soft love for the game. Even though, Rose's lawyers kept fighting to say that Pete was banned for other reasons than betting on baseball, rather his questionable associations and illegal wagers he admitted making on football and basketball games. The settlement said that Rose violated Major League Rule 12 which states: "Anyone found to have bet on games involving his team is declared permanently ineligible," and, "Anyone found to have engaged in unspecified conduct not in the best interests of baseball can also be ruled permanently ineligible". The agreement Rose signed never said which part of the rule he violated. Rose still lives with his banishment from baseball, hoping that some day it will finally and deservedly be lifted.
There are numerous baseball players that come to mind when thinking about players who have committed crimes and done things against the law. One of them is Ty Cobb. Ty Cobb's records are also very astounding as compared to Pete Rose. His 36 steals of home still stands in the record books. He is first in batting average with and average of .367, first in batting titles with 12, first in runs with 2245 and second in hits with 4191 only behind Pete Rose. His records are wonderful, but he still holds fewer than Charlie Hustle.
Cobb's attitude also got him far in baseball, only not the way Pete's did. Players came to fear Cobb. He sharpened his spikes before games so to let opponents know that if they wanted to tag him out, they'd almost certainly take a trip to the emergency room. He wasn't liked by many for his over-aggressiveness which he says was caused by teammates taunting him as a rookie. As plainly stated, Pete Rose's and Ty Cobb's attitude toward baseball were completely opposite.
While in his playing career, Ty Cobb admitted to killing a man. Cobb was walking down the street when a man supposedly jumped him with a knife. Cobb, who pulled out a gun, couldn't make it fire, so the man slit him up the back with his knife. The man then fled into a dead-end alley where Cobb beat him to death with the gun. "I used that gun sight to rip and slash and tear him for about ten minutes until he had no face left. Left him there, not breathing, in his own blood," Cobb once said.
Cobb was also accused of fixing a Detroit-Cleveland game back on September 25, 1919. Cobb, Tris Speaker, Hubert "Dutch" Leonard and Joe Wood wagered $5,500 on the game because they knew the outcome. The man who gave the money to a bookie implicated the four. Later, Leonard came out about the fixing as payback for Cobb cutting him from Detroit and for Speaker not claiming him off waivers. Cobb and Speaker were suspended which was eventually lifted with their acquittal. As a person can plainly see, Tyrus Raymond Cobb was much worse than Pete Rose but ironically was the very first man to enter the Hall of Fame.
Another player that has been given chance after chance is the Chicago White Sox's Albert Belle. Albert Belle is known for his huge frame and loud bat, but he is also known for his outrageous temper. Once, Belle refused outright to shake hands with the man that once suspended him, AL President, Bobby Brown. He once chased trick-or-treaters off of his lawn with his car, then threatened to kill them if they came back. He fired a baseball at the chest of a fan, and when Sports Illustrated tried to talk to him, he said, "SI can kiss my black ass". Belle was fined $50,000 for holding a five minute yelling bout with Hannah Storm. He was suspended 7 games for using a corked bat, but after that, he hit 10 homers in the last 20 games of the season which proves that he thrives on his anger. On April 6, 1996, he threw two baseballs at SI photographer Tony Tomsic for trying to photograph him after warning him not to. Tomsic cut his hand when he raised it to protect his face from the oncoming ball. One time, he dislodged a porcelain sink from the clubhouse wall and smashed it to pieces with a bat. He almost got in a physical fight with a columnist before Indian's catcher Sandy Alomar broke it up. Belle's anger has given him a bad reputation throughout his baseball career.
Belle also had a problem with alcohol some time ago. In 1990, he spent two months in a Cleveland Clinic for alcoholism and his temper. According to one, Belle became a closet drinker and showed up hung over for work. The Cleveland Indians covered up by saying that his temper was caused by his alcoholism, thus giving a socially acceptable reason for it. Through all of this, Albert Belle still plays baseball and has never been banned from the sport. Pete Rose's gambling is worse than Belle's uncontrollable temper which could lash out on anyone at any minute? I think not.
The world knows Pete Rose?s faults: problem gambler, unreliable husband, and father and tax cheat. None of that diminished what he accomplished on the field. Rose accepted cash for baseball card shows and failed to report it to the IRS. This act landed him in prison. That same crime was committed by Hall of Famer?s Willie McCovey and Duke Snider. Did Major League baseball think twice about putting them on the ballot for the Hall? No. Rose was a frequent visitor to horse and dog tracks, but so was the great Hall of Famer Rogers Hornsby. ?Cap Anson was perhaps the biggest racist in baseball history. It was his refusal to play against a black pitcher, George Stovey, in the 1880s that allowed the owners of the time to bar blacks from the game for nearly 70 years? (Gary). Did baseball look at these men?s private life when they elected them to the Hall? No, they didn?t. It was the gutsy move of one commissioner who tried to play God to make himself look good. One commissioner who felt Pete?s trivial accusations outweighed his records ten to one. Unfortunately, the numbers are the other way around.
Unfortunately as we all knnow, Bud Selig will be around for a long, long time.
I believe myself that now, Pete Rose should be let into the Hall of Fame. I think that Hall of Fame standards should be based on what you do on the field, no off of it or on the side. That should make no difference. The Hall of Fame is for the very elite that succeed in baseball with such grace, that when their name is brought up, the thought of greatness follows. Pete Rose is one of those elite. He is one of the greats. He is one of the best there is. Larry Bowa attested to that. What more could you ask for than the word of a man who played with him?
There are many men in the Hall of Fame and playing baseball now that have done much worse things than betting on baseball. I'm sure that when the question of goodness in the Hall comes up, no one can attest to there being no bad. Pete Rose's betting on baseball was not proven, but Cobb's murder and his game fixing was. Albert Belle's ticking time-bomb temper is real. There's no telling who he will lash out at next, or what he will do, or when his timer will finally reach 12:00 and explode. He is not banned from baseball for his outrageous actions toward loyal fans and inquiring photographers. Ty Cobb was never banned from baseball for killing a man or throwing a game, so why should Pete Rose be banned for something that seems trivial and unimportant as compared to their faults?
Pete Rose should have been in the Hall of Fame five years ago, when he would have been eligible. He deserves a bronze plaque up on the wall of greats where it belongs. But for now, Pete must sit alone, thoughts of the Hall of Fame lingering in the back of his mind. His dreams are just that--dreams. The smell of the grass, the feel of the bat, and the excitement of the game still burn in his stomach. Unfortunately, he must live with the nightmarish reality that he is not in the Hall of Fame for a petty reason. Pete sits alone, entrapped in a world that will not forgive him. Even though he is not in the Hall of Fame, his life on the field and accomplishments will live on forever in the hearts of those who came to love Mr. Charlie Hustle.
Belle also had a problem with alcohol some time ago. In 1990, he spent two months in a Cleveland Clinic for alcoholism and his temper. According to one, Belle became a closet drinker and showed up hung over for work. The Cleveland Indians covered up by saying that his temper was caused by his alcoholism, thus giving a socially acceptable reason for it. Through all of this, Albert Belle still plays baseball and has never been banned from the sport. Pete Rose's gambling is worse than Belle's uncontrollable temper which could lash out on anyone at any minute? I think not.
The world knows Pete Rose?s faults: problem gambler, unreliable husband, and father and tax cheat. None of that diminished what he accomplished on the field. Rose accepted cash for baseball card shows and failed to report it to the IRS. This act landed him in prison. That same crime was committed by Hall of Famer?s Willie McCovey and Duke Snider. Did Major League baseball think twice about putting them on the ballot for the Hall? No. Rose was a frequent visitor to horse and dog tracks, but so was the great Hall of Famer Rogers Hornsby. ?Cap Anson was perhaps the biggest racist in baseball history. It was his refusal to play against a black pitcher, George Stovey, in the 1880s that allowed the owners of the time to bar blacks from the game for nearly 70 years? (Gary). Did baseball look at these men?s private life when they elected them to the Hall? No, they didn?t. It was the gutsy move of one commissioner who tried to play God to make himself look good. One commissioner who felt Pete?s trivial accusations outweighed his records ten to one. Unfortunately, the numbers are the other way around.
Unfortunately as we all knnow, Bud Selig will be around for a long, long time.
I believe myself that now, Pete Rose should be let into the Hall of Fame. I think that Hall of Fame standards should be based on what you do on the field, no off of it or on the side. That should make no difference. The Hall of Fame is for the very elite that succeed in baseball with such grace, that when their name is brought up, the thought of greatness follows. Pete Rose is one of those elite. He is one of the greats. He is one of the best there is. Larry Bowa attested to that. What more could you ask for than the word of a man who played with him?
There are many men in the Hall of Fame and playing baseball now that have done much worse things than betting on baseball. I'm sure that when the question of goodness in the Hall comes up, no one can attest to there being no bad. Pete Rose's betting on baseball was not proven, but Cobb's murder and his game fixing was. Albert Belle's ticking time-bomb temper is real. There's no telling who he will lash out at next, or what he will do, or when his timer will finally reach 12:00 and explode. He is not banned from baseball for his outrageous actions toward loyal fans and inquiring photographers. Ty Cobb was never banned from baseball for killing a man or throwing a game, so why should Pete Rose be banned for something that seems trivial and unimportant as compared to their faults?
Pete Rose should have been in the Hall of Fame five years ago, when he would have been eligible. He deserves a bronze plaque up on the wall of greats where it belongs. But for now, Pete must sit alone, thoughts of the Hall of Fame lingering in the back of his mind. His dreams are just that--dreams. The smell of the grass, the feel of the bat, and the excitement of the game still burn in his stomach. Unfortunately, he must live with the nightmarish reality that he is not in the Hall of Fame for a petty reason. Pete sits alone, entrapped in a world that will not forgive him. Even though he is not in the Hall of Fame, his life on the field and accomplishments will live on forever in the hearts of those who came to love Mr. Charlie Hustle.
ace
ace
bullshit, how do you think you would know something like that?
it shouldn't matter about a sorry comment.
oh, just say sorry to bud and we'll let you in.....
ace
bullshit, how do you think you would know something like that?
it shouldn't matter about a sorry comment.
oh, just say sorry to bud and we'll let you in.....
