ravens talent

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mojo risin

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They motgaged the future last year to try and return to the super duper, now they pay the price in spades. One third of the ravens total salaries this year will be in dead cap money ($22mil). The next closest team is dead by $15mil. Further, they've cut over one half of their super squad starters (14 total).

Coaching.
Billick the offensive genius (supposedly) is in tough shape. It was the defense of Marvin Lewis that won him the games, and now lewis has left for washington, replaced by veteran Mike NOlan. The rest of the staff is in tact for the most part (new dline coach), but the loss of lewis looms, especially since Billick has hardly proven he is above average offensively. Also, Serious inabilities to draft offensive players of caliber.

Big downgrade.

QB.
Exit Grbac, promote Redman. Young kid who has not shown he's ready for the big show yet. Hasn't played a game since 2000, can't scramble and likes to act tough, which may mean the end of him early (no fb and no right side of oline for protection). Thus Exit Redman, enter Jeff Blake from the saints, who can scramble, but had just a miserably terrible accuracy problem last year in pre's, losing his newly acquired starting job.

Can you downgrade from Grbac? Sure.

RB.
A glimmer of light as Jamal Lewis returns from injury, but will he be well? Watch closely because as his fortunes go so do the team's. Absolutely no backup as brookins was kicked out for being fat and slow. And they had to dump the venerable Sam Gash, so no fb either to block for Lewis.

Upgrade unknown.

WR.
Had to send Quadry ishmail and shannon sharpe to cap heaven, ishmail 74 catches, sharpe 73. YIKES. Trav Taylor, one of Billicks draftees in 2000 has done nothing so far, so will probably start again, but this his 3rd year so may develop. Brandon Stokely, another huge underperformer likely to man the other spot.

They blew some late round draft picks here, so may get really lucky. The one guy who is pro bowl is TE todd Heap, super rookie year.

Large Downgrade.

Oline.
Managed to protect 4 out of 5 starters (bye leon Sercy, 2nd best player)). Jon Ogdon the pro bowler, but after that I don't rate them very highly. Bernie anderson in only his second year, Mike Flynn solid if nothing above that, Edwin Mulataldo has upside, watch for him, he's a great tandem with ogdon on the run blocking. But Jason Thomas at right tackle is a nobody, 2nd year, never played. the right side may be a sieve. Also, NO DEPTH.

Slight downgrade 'til the injuries set in.

Defense is sporting a new 3-4, due to lack of dline.

dline.
What dline, might as well skip this section. Lost 3 out 4, but may get Adams back as he's currently in negotiations with every team in the league. Adams is a key in the 3-4 allignment, without him, they have no middle stopper, the only way to make the 3-4 successful. In the meantime backup Kelly Gregg is getting the NT call.

Mike Mcrary the only returnee, and he's too small for the 3-4 gig, but slated for one end, and 2nd round rookie Tony Weaver, the other.

Spectacular Downgrade (depending on Addams).

Linebackers.
they just paid a fortune to get this unit back, but still lost Jamie Sharper. Lewis moves inside in the 3-4 allignment, with boulware in the outside rush position, a perfect spot for his talent. Joining him is Adalius Stevens, very quick, in 3rd year, coaches very high on him. then they've got 2nd year, 4th rounder, never played, Edgerton Hartwell joining Lewis. Lewis may kill this kid when he keeps fu*king up.

So they have more lb's but less talent. Slight Downgrade.

Secondary.
Holy Smokes. More guys I never heard of. CB Chris Mcalister, a very fine talent is the only guy returning. S Ed Reed is a 1st rounder who will learn on the job (had an outstanding college career at miami), former S gary Baxter, 2nd year 2nd rounder, who only played in 6 games last year, moves over to cb, and Tony Mitchel, 3rd yr backup, undrafted free agent from powerhouse football college Tuskegee gets the nod at the other safety.

Dare I say it. MAJOR downgrade.

kicks.
Stover mr. Dependable on fgs, but not much leg. Rookie punter.

Conclusion:
This team is in shambles. They are probably the most overrated team in the league right now, and although I don't usually make predictions on total wins, they are a prime under candidate.

Further, fortunate enough to win the super duper, then make last years 2nd round of the playoffs, they are going to be in the fav. role early on this season. Imho, a fantastic fade.
 

homedog

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under performer

under performer

What is your reason behind saying that Stokley is an under performer?
 

mojo risin

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-6 starts in 3 seasons.

-Unable to move ahead of average Ishmail.

-Unable to move ahead of below average trav taylor last year.

-sure handed but weak speed.

-Personal observation.

If you have a difference of opinion, lets hear it.
 
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Hoops

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If Blake gets some starts, even though his best days are behind him, he is an upgrade over Grbac. Elvis was abysmal last season. His numbers were horrid and even those don't indicate how poorly he played.
 

homedog

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mojo

mojo

Was just interested in your opinion. I agree: great hands, average speed, but I don't know if he has been given a fair shot.

Thanks for the reply.
 
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gardenweasel

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ravens

have a habit of drafting injury prone guys....jamal lewis` college and pro career have been destroyed by injury...if this guy has a decent career,i`ll be shocked(although he had a large part in the super bowl run)....todd heap had injury problems at az st and has not been healthy as a raven(already having problems in pre-season)......now,chester taylor is having the same ankle problems he had at toledo......they should have drafted shaun alexander when they had the chance....by the way,they are totally injured for their first pre season game vs detroit....boulware,mccrary,corner gary baxter,taylor,d`lineman tony weaver,jamal lewis is being held out and on and on.....throw in that chris redmon is throwing numerous int`s in camp and detroit may be worth a look....rb`s available for the game are tellis redmon(not wowing anybody in camp),damien hunter from utah and 2nd or 3rd year man derek homer from ky...very thin indeed....
 

TheShrimp

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Re: ravens talent

Originally posted by mojo risin

Coaching.
<snip>
Big downgrade.

Agreed

QB.
<snip>
Can you downgrade from Grbac? Sure.

Agreed


RB.
<snip>
Upgrade unknown.

Agreed. I love to see him moving well again. He can be so explosive.


WR.
<snip>
Large Downgrade.

Mostly agreed. Sharpe, of course, was TE and is maybe fading. Heap can definitely play, learned from Sharpe, has good hands and is tough. Heap may be dinged up though and they were talking about dong more 3-receiver sets.

They've seen some good things from Ron Johnson, and have suggested he might steal the job from Stokely.

Their receiving core wasn't that great last year anyway, so maybe not a large downgrade, but a downgrade.


Oline.
Managed to protect 4 out of 5 starters (bye leon Sercy, 2nd best player)). Jon Ogdon the pro bowler, but after that I don't rate them very highly. Bernie anderson in only his second year, Mike Flynn solid if nothing above that, Edwin Mulataldo has upside, watch for him, he's a great tandem with ogdon on the run blocking. But Jason Thomas at right tackle is a nobody, 2nd year, never played. the right side may be a sieve. Also, NO DEPTH.

Slight downgrade 'til the injuries set in.


Did searcy even play a down last year?

Mulatalo is pretty good and I think this could be a break-out year for him. He's been getting better. Now, I think Flynn is moving back to his natural position at RG instead of Center this year. So that's probably an upgrade at RG and C.

I think they have a much better Oline, which immediately upgrades your pass and run game. Got to avoid the injuries though.


Defense is sporting a new 3-4, due to lack of dline.

dline.

Spectacular Downgrade (depending on Addams).

Agreed. Not looking pretty.


Linebackers.

So they have more lb's but less talent. Slight Downgrade.

Right. And with the 3-4, you may not see Lewis dominating and getting open like he used to. The front 7 on the 'D' has gotten A LOT weaker.


Secondary.

Dare I say it. MAJOR downgrade.

Go ahead and say it. Could be nasty.


Conclusion:
This team is in shambles.
<snip>

Indeed. And I think they know it. Modell's big quote the other day was, "This team will be a lot better the second half of the season that the first half."

Billick has always seemed scared shitless about putting Redman in. A guy drafted as high as he was should have seen way more action by now.

Ed Reed is prob. a starter. That's trouble. If they're talking about starting Ron Johnson at WR, that could be trouble. They're in a division with Pitt and the improved Cinci and Clev (both of whom beat the Ravens last year). More trouble.

Everything points to "REBUILDING YEAR".

It's not looking pretty.
 

mojo risin

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Thanks very much guys. This is the kind of feedback I was hoping for.

Looks like we have some major disagreement on the oline here shrimp, any other opinions?

I believe you are correct in Flynn moving over, Bernie Anderson could have a lot of upside being so young and starting as a rookie, and Multaldo already making news as a run blocker. Had them as a downgrade due to right tackle and depth.

Will Reassess.

Leon Searcy?, thought he started several games but had injuries.

What about Sammy Williams? Why does Thomas start over him?
 
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TheShrimp

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I guess I don't know what everyone's doing right now...

From the left, I think it might be:
Ogden, Mulitalo, Rabach, Flynn, Anderson

But Anderson is really a guard, too. Rabach's still young and I don't think he's seen a lot of time. Maybe Thomas goes in at RT?

Maybe we'll see Og, Mul, Flynn, Anderson, Thomas, but I'm pretty sure I heard they were moving Flynn back to guard. Still, that's 7 yrs w/ Ogden, 4 with Muli., 5 w/ Flynn so they have some experience.

I don't think they have Sammy Williams anymore.

I thought Searcy hurt the triceps in camp last year and might have played some, but what I consider their line from last year doesn't include him. I can't exactly recall. They had Kip Vickers in there a lot (sometimes, Ogd, Ander, Fly, Will., Vickers).

Oline inconsistency was one of their problems last year. It was a real weak spot and that's basically why I was thinking "upgrade" for this year.
 

gardenweasel

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rabach

rabach

picked up lower body strength in the off season and is looking very good....had a very nice career at wisconsin(all big ten)and looks to help solidify the o`line...the guy looks like a player.
 

mojo risin

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Okay, the 10-4.

Searcy was a dnp last year. Good call Shrimp (hope you'll throw in your info on the upcoming reviews). Searcy is now recovering in the miami oline.

Vickers was the starter last year, now resides with the Skins. He has 22 starts in his career in 64 games, 14 of them last year. He was the weak link, rated below average.

Sam Williams had 7 starts last year, but another weak link, and now is with the chargers.

So, after all adjustments, checking the wind, and star alignment, will say the ravens oline has an upgrade, however slight, due to the unknown ability of new player Jason Thomas, or Casey rabach, who also didn't play last year. Also, this line lacks any sort of depth.

Stacking it up vs. other teams olines, it barely makes the average grade.

And this tidbit just in, upgrading the lb crew:

WESTMINSTER, Md. ? The Baltimore Ravens signed former Green Bay Packers linebacker Bernardo Harris to a one-year, $750,000 contract. Because Harris is an eight-year veteran, only $450,000 will count against the salary cap. "Bernardo adds a veteran presence in the middle to back up Ray (Lewis) and Edgerton (Hartwell)," vice president of football operations Ozzie Newsome said. Harris spent the past seven years with the Green Bay Packers, where he was a salary cap cut in February. Harris led Green Bay in tackles four of the past five seasons, and started all but one game for the Packers in the last five years.
 
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gardenweasel

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mojo

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good thread...way to smoke out some good info(my man shrimp always has great input)....this is what this stuff is all all about.
 

Anders

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Just a note on mojo's original post where he says "they are probably the most over-rated team in the league right now.."

Tend to disagree.

Certainly agree that they could have an awful season.

But so do most others.

Therefore, scrub the 'Over-Rated" label - I haven't found anyone yet who believes the Ravens will do anything of note this season and I'm pretty sure you will therefore find lines that reflect that.

btw mojo, great info man; 'tis much appreciated :cool:
 

mojo risin

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Well, I would suggest putting your money behind them then.

If they are not overrated then they will have a fine ATS record and worthy of your supporting opinion.

We can see who's correct midseason by pulling up this thread., you must be thinking 5-3ats, I'm saying 3-5 at best.
 

Anders

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mojo..

have no immediate plans of putting my money on 'em.

Just saying that I think most linesmakers will also recognise how shallow and potentially dreadful they are this year...

Certainly don't think 5-3 ATS...

I'm estimating that most teams who shine or flop ATS over a season are either those who are either highly touted or written off...and then do the opposite and the linemakers never truly catch up... i think the Season Wins number initially posted for the Ravens means they're in neither group....

will be interesting to watch though

GL :cool:
 
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