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[DOGS THAT BARK]

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAna...81850/A-Shovel-Empty-Waste-Of-787-Billion.htm

A Shovel-Empty Waste Of $787 Billion

Posted 05/18/2011 06:50 PM ET

Obama also said that the extra highway money would "create or save" 150,000 jobs by the end of 2010.

Well, the results are in.

A new study by economists Timothy Conley of the University of Western Ontario and Bill Dupor of Ohio State found that despite the influx of all that federal money, highway construction jobs actually plunged by nearly 70,000 between 2008 and 2010.

opcorn2

 

[Skulnik]

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAna...81850/A-Shovel-Empty-Waste-Of-787-Billion.htm

A Shovel-Empty Waste Of $787 Billion

Posted 05/18/2011 06:50 PM ET

Obama also said that the extra highway money would "create or save" 150,000 jobs by the end of 2010.

Well, the results are in.

A new study by economists Timothy Conley of the University of Western Ontario and Bill Dupor of Ohio State found that despite the influx of all that federal money, highway construction jobs actually plunged by nearly 70,000 between 2008 and 2010.

opcorn2

Pity Really.


:shrug:

 

[Chadman]

While I can certainly see accountability being an issue for states (I'm getting tired of some of these federal monies going to states for state-related projects), is it Obama's fault the states shifted money around and misused the money as it was intended? Part of the reason for this is reduced money going TO the states - which is more a mantra of the Republicans, right? So, under a Republican President and legislature, you think things will IMPROVE from a state funding idea? Things would have been BETTER in these states from an infrastructure perspective?

If the states had not received this funding, would things have been better or worse for the states?

:0corn

Personally, I know I've seen as many as five different road projects that were shown to be directly funded by the stimulus money. These were needed, every one of them. These were in Minnesota and Missouri. Not sure what governors and legislators in places like Texas (mentioned here) are doing with these funds, but some states are making good use of this money.

 

[Lumi]

Pity Really.


:shrug:

what is a "Pity" really?

that you cannot respond with more than your usual reply, or that you don't comprehend the topic?

Try ! To put into words and comprehensible sentences how you feel...:0008

 

[Skulnik]

what is a "Pity" really?

that you cannot respond with more than your usual reply, or that you don't comprehend the topic?

Try ! To put into words and comprehensible sentences how you feel...:0008

You're not the boss of me.


:142smilie

 

[Lumi]

You're not the boss of me.


:142smilie

I never said I was :shrug:

 

[Chadman]

Lumi, please don't entice Skul to go outside his comfort box and use words. Linking Youtube vids and learning new acronyms is tough enough for him.

 

[Lumi]

Lumi, please don't entice Skul to go outside his comfort box and use words. Linking Youtube vids and learning new acronyms is tough enough for him.

I digress :0008

 

[ssd]

Chadman:
If not Obama's fault, who's? Doesn't the buck stop with him?
Weren't we sold on the idea that without all this stimulus, we'd go over 10% unemployment and with it, we'd cap out at 8.9%? How high did unemployment get?
Weren't we told that the US economy would tank and go into another recession without it? Personally, I believe we are headed there now. Time will tell.

The whole $787B has been a complete and total fraud on the US taxpayer.

If the money going to the states was to be used for construction, it all should have been stipulated that that was the purpose so the states could not shift it to other areas.

IMHO, the stimulus plan and the Wall Street bailout preceeding it are indefensible by anyone with common sense.

 

[Skulnik]

Lumi, please don't entice Skul to go outside his comfort box and use words. Linking Youtube vids and learning new acronyms is tough enough for him.

ChadMan, the only thing that matters is that i'm OK with my posting, I have honestly stated that I have NO typing skills, I can ADAPT.


JMHO

PITY REALLY.

:director:

 

[rusty]

ChadMan, the only thing that matters is that i'm OK with my posting, I have honestly stated that I have NO typing skills, I can ADAPT.


JMHO

PITY REALLY.

:director:

:toast: Just watch out you don't get a spelling ticket from the spelling police!

 

[Skulnik]

:toast: Just watch out you don't get a spelling ticket from the spelling police!

:mj07:

:0074

 

[Chadman]

Chadman:
If not Obama's fault, who's? Doesn't the buck stop with him?
Weren't we sold on the idea that without all this stimulus, we'd go over 10% unemployment and with it, we'd cap out at 8.9%? How high did unemployment get?
Weren't we told that the US economy would tank and go into another recession without it? Personally, I believe we are headed there now. Time will tell.

The whole $787B has been a complete and total fraud on the US taxpayer.

If the money going to the states was to be used for construction, it all should have been stipulated that that was the purpose so the states could not shift it to other areas.

IMHO, the stimulus plan and the Wall Street bailout preceeding it are indefensible by anyone with common sense.

Sure, the buck can stop with Obama. I have no problem with that. But how can anyone actually judge what "would have happened" had the stimulus not happened. Yes, he - along with MANY other economists, legislators, and business leaders thought it was important and even necessary at the time. Bush thought so too - so, it's not JUST Obama, they, and both parties have taken the same kind of steps.

Do I know what would have happened without stimulus and bailout monies? No. Does anyone, really? I don't think so - maybe you or others do. Is hindsight easy to look from? Sure it is. But the point is, we DON'T know what might have happened, and few people agreed at that time. I don't understand why states did not follow through with what that money was supposed to be used for. In my opinion, I would hold them - and state legislators and governors more responsible for shifting money around and not using it as intended.

And again - how would things have been better for the states had this money not come down for these projects in the first place? Do you think as much would have gotten done, in all the areas where the money went, whether it was intended in one area and moved to another or not? Not sure how anyone could rationalize that thinking.

 

[Chadman]

By the way - does anyone know for sure that money was NOT stipulated to be used for the purposes it was supposed to be used for? Not sure why anyone would assume that, either? What exactly was is supposed to be used for, if not what it was supposed to be used for?

 

[ssd]

One thing I know that would have happened had they not passed the Stimulus Act.

We'd be about $1Trillion less in debt.

The economy probably WOULD have crashed. We probably WOULD have dipped into a second recession or a depression.

Life would have been hard for 2-3 years rather than 2-3 weeks.

But, as of know, we WOULD be growing again.
Jobs WOULD be created. Salaries WOULD be going up.

The Massive Debt-cycle that western civilization is in is about to crash. It is unsustainable.

Look at Greece. look at Ireland. look at portugal. look at Spain. Lumi posted a link about Spain - take a look at it.

Then also do a little bit of research on Iceland and how they crashed and have recovered quickly - how and why?

Also look at Austrian economics vs Keynesian.

You may not believe me now but the truth will be all too apparent in the not too distant future.

 

[Duff Miver]

One thing I know that would have happened had they not passed the Stimulus Act.

We'd be about $1Trillion less in debt.

The economy probably WOULD have crashed. We probably WOULD have dipped into a second recession or a depression.

Life would have been hard for 2-3 years rather than 2-3 weeks.

But, as of know, we WOULD be growing again.
Jobs WOULD be created. Salaries WOULD be going up.

The Massive Debt-cycle that western civilization is in is about to crash. It is unsustainable.

Look at Greece. look at Ireland. look at portugal. look at Spain. Lumi posted a link about Spain - take a look at it.

Then also do a little bit of research on Iceland and how they crashed and have recovered quickly - how and why?

Also look at Austrian economics vs Keynesian.

You may not believe me now but the truth will be all too apparent in the not too distant future.

That's a lot of claims based on.....?

Many, although not all, of the responsible parties (President, Sec of Treasury, Chairman of the Fed) thought the stimulus and bank bailout were necessary to avoid an even worse problem.

I guess you're claiming some expertise those people don't have. That would make you one helluva a smart guy.

You should offer your expertise to your country. It would be the patriotic thing to do.:0074

Or, you can sit on the sidelines and carp. :shrug:

 

[ssd]

I sent letters of my plan and my reasoning to my Senators and Rep.

Call me an idiot or what not.


This debt cycle will end badly.


Step back and really think about the debt --- the individual, the cities, the states, the federal gov't - all the sovereign nations struggling with debt.

It is unsustainable and will crash. There is not enough money in the world to cover all the debt and it can not keep revolving and being pushed out ad finitum.

Greece's best answer RIGHT NOW is a default. Same with Portugal and Spain. Same with Ireland. Add the USA to that list soon....


BUT BUT BUT......the international bankers are going to try and push as much of the debt off THEIR BOOKS as they can - onto the taxpayer through BAILOUTS AND STIMULUS PLANS because if you follow the trail of money - a lot of the European banks hold Greek and Irish and Portuguese and Spanish debt and if THEY DEFAULT - those banks will tank huge losses but THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE......their must be some mechanism to push the losses off on to the unsuspecting public while the banks can keep all THE GAINS. Hmmmm - now, how would they go about doing that?



The bailout of Portugal last week. $108 Billion. Half backed by the IMF.....half the IMF funding comes from the US. So, American taxpayers are bailing out the 1/4 of the $108 billion. So, that the european banks can get their money out.

but I am an unpatriotic idiot........:shrug:

 

[Duff Miver]

I sent letters of my plan and my reasoning to my Senators and Rep.

Call me an idiot or what not.


This debt cycle will end badly.


Step back and really think about the debt --- the individual, the cities, the states, the federal gov't - all the sovereign nations struggling with debt.

It is unsustainable and will crash. There is not enough money in the world to cover all the debt and it can not keep revolving and being pushed out ad finitum.

Greece's best answer RIGHT NOW is a default. Same with Portugal and Spain. Same with Ireland. Add the USA to that list soon....


BUT BUT BUT......the international bankers are going to try and push as much of the debt off THEIR BOOKS as they can - onto the taxpayer through BAILOUTS AND STIMULUS PLANS because if you follow the trail of money - a lot of the European banks hold Greek and Irish and Portuguese and Spanish debt and if THEY DEFAULT - those banks will tank huge losses but THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE......their must be some mechanism to push the losses off on to the unsuspecting public while the banks can keep all THE GAINS. Hmmmm - now, how would they go about doing that?



The bailout of Portugal last week. $108 Billion. Half backed by the IMF.....half the IMF funding comes from the US. So, American taxpayers are bailing out the 1/4 of the $108 billion. So, that the european banks can get their money out.

but I am an unpatriotic idiot........:shrug:

Not to worry. The world is going to end tomorrow anyway.

 

[THE KOD]

wait a minute its 6 PM somewhere in the world.'


I am still here............


the rapture may have past us by

 

[ssd]

Once the gov't - be it emperors or kings or Congress- realize that they can borrow money NOW based on future revenue, it is the beginning of the end.

EVERY empire has ended this way. History repeats itself, it just doesn't duplicate itself - so each time it is a little different but the cause is the same. The torch is being passed to CHINA - capital flows of money are all headed to China. Britain was the last empire before the US. The US was a creditor nation to Britain - Britain was broke following WWI and that is when the US started it's empire. It came into it's own after WWII, at which point, we were already becoming a debtor nation. China is our creditor nation and they will be the next empire. I am sure the international banks are already setting up in China - the vampiric squid that is Goldman-Sachs wrapping it's tentacles around China.....

And gov'ts will never QUIT borrowing - just like the drug user will never turn in the drug dealer - the Gov't has an unholy accord with the banks because the banks supply the cash they need for their fix.

So - IMHO, we should have let all the banks on Wall Street and around the world fail and then prosecuted them for their criminal activity. Perhaps then, when it was being rebuilt, a new and real system of checks and balances in the financial system could have emerged so that risk was rewarded but losses had consequences as well.