Right to die with terminal illness?
- Thread starter Betone
- Start date
I`d like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather(not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car)...
my dude...now I`m a tad unhappy about the juxtaposition of your serious post and my frivolous one. ...I stopped by to f with jack and got a little sidetracked.. was just f`ing around...
sorry if I screwed up your thread...:toast:
Well it depends, what race are they? Are they a Muslim? Do they have good insurance? If I make sure these fuckers live, I don't want my hard earned tax dollars paying for their care or food........just sayin.
Hope this helps,
FDC
Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk
Hope this helps,
FDC
Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk
I watched all of that video. It was a video in support of the act, so that's the only view that was portrayed. I have mixed emotions about this issue, and I have quite a bit of personal experience. This post might be tldr, so sorry.
My personal saying that I tell people at appropriate times is, "there are worse things in life than death." What I mean is that a life full of pain and suffering and misery or living in a vegetative state or having absolutely no mental faculties is horrible, and the person would be better off deceased. I'm not sure I'm ready to go the next step however and give them a lethal cocktail of medications so they can die.
I think what is missed so often here and something that I have written about before and urged members on here to be aware of is this; understand that resuscitation efforts of a person who isn't breathing or has a heart that has stopped beating or both is a horrible nasty process. It is dehumanizing, it is brutal, and most of the time, it is a failure. Many times a person who is resuscitated Dies again in a short amount of time, and the process is repeated. The family then gets together, the decision is made to not revive the person again, and the patient then dies peacefully. My thought is to avoid any resuscitation efforts in the first place when a person is terminal or if reviving them will not promote quality in their life.
My grandmother had a massive brain stem stroke. She didn't die, but she never woke up again. During the time she was actively dieing, my father made the difficult decision to not give her blood transfusions, IV fluids, and nutrition through a tube or thru a vein. He chose to let nature take its course, and she seemed to die peacefully 3 days later. She was given pain and anxiety medicine when she became restless, but these were not to take her life but to ease her suffering that she showed signs of having (facial grimacing, jerking movements in her arms and legs, and labored breathing). This decision was hard on my dad to make and one he had to do on his own as an only child, but he was given good counsel, and he did not regret it. In our future conversations about this after I learned more and became a nurse, I have tried to reassure him that he indeed do the right thing.
Sometimes at work we have patients who are actively dieing and are made DNR/Classed/no code blue. Most of the time they have a palliative doctor who prescribes large doses of narcotics and benzodiazepines to be administered. This can lead to a moral quandary for some nurses because it kind of makes u feel like u are killing the patient. I always like to work very closely with the family members and follow their wishes in these circumstances and make them as comfortable as I can. I'm ok with this process, and I am because I know my job is to make the patient comfortable just like it always is.
What I did like about the video is that the person who chooses to get the cocktail prescribed has to go thru a process, and it is a liquid they drink. I had visions of lines of people with Alzheimer's disease, the profoundly mentally handicapped, and assorted other people with miserable life conditions being lined up and given a lethal dose on intravenous medication by a stranger because their lives were deemed unworthy by another stranger.
I did some further reading, and there are cases where the person takes the cocktail and does not die as expected
I guess my personal view is that I won't oppose the passing of said legislation if it ever comes to a place I can vote, but I won't support it either. Seems wishy washy, but that's what I think now. If it raises awareness and keeps me from having to do CPR on a 90 year old terminal patient again, then I will be happy. I have some horrible personal experiences that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies when it comes to doing cpr and trying to revive "dead" patients who should have never been put thru those situations.
My personal saying that I tell people at appropriate times is, "there are worse things in life than death." What I mean is that a life full of pain and suffering and misery or living in a vegetative state or having absolutely no mental faculties is horrible, and the person would be better off deceased. I'm not sure I'm ready to go the next step however and give them a lethal cocktail of medications so they can die.
I think what is missed so often here and something that I have written about before and urged members on here to be aware of is this; understand that resuscitation efforts of a person who isn't breathing or has a heart that has stopped beating or both is a horrible nasty process. It is dehumanizing, it is brutal, and most of the time, it is a failure. Many times a person who is resuscitated Dies again in a short amount of time, and the process is repeated. The family then gets together, the decision is made to not revive the person again, and the patient then dies peacefully. My thought is to avoid any resuscitation efforts in the first place when a person is terminal or if reviving them will not promote quality in their life.
My grandmother had a massive brain stem stroke. She didn't die, but she never woke up again. During the time she was actively dieing, my father made the difficult decision to not give her blood transfusions, IV fluids, and nutrition through a tube or thru a vein. He chose to let nature take its course, and she seemed to die peacefully 3 days later. She was given pain and anxiety medicine when she became restless, but these were not to take her life but to ease her suffering that she showed signs of having (facial grimacing, jerking movements in her arms and legs, and labored breathing). This decision was hard on my dad to make and one he had to do on his own as an only child, but he was given good counsel, and he did not regret it. In our future conversations about this after I learned more and became a nurse, I have tried to reassure him that he indeed do the right thing.
Sometimes at work we have patients who are actively dieing and are made DNR/Classed/no code blue. Most of the time they have a palliative doctor who prescribes large doses of narcotics and benzodiazepines to be administered. This can lead to a moral quandary for some nurses because it kind of makes u feel like u are killing the patient. I always like to work very closely with the family members and follow their wishes in these circumstances and make them as comfortable as I can. I'm ok with this process, and I am because I know my job is to make the patient comfortable just like it always is.
What I did like about the video is that the person who chooses to get the cocktail prescribed has to go thru a process, and it is a liquid they drink. I had visions of lines of people with Alzheimer's disease, the profoundly mentally handicapped, and assorted other people with miserable life conditions being lined up and given a lethal dose on intravenous medication by a stranger because their lives were deemed unworthy by another stranger.
I did some further reading, and there are cases where the person takes the cocktail and does not die as expected
I guess my personal view is that I won't oppose the passing of said legislation if it ever comes to a place I can vote, but I won't support it either. Seems wishy washy, but that's what I think now. If it raises awareness and keeps me from having to do CPR on a 90 year old terminal patient again, then I will be happy. I have some horrible personal experiences that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies when it comes to doing cpr and trying to revive "dead" patients who should have never been put thru those situations.
I'm interested in your real views. I would educatedly guess you would be in favor of this legislation. Amiright?
Clint,
First let me say this, yours is one of the best, most well put together posts I have read on this subject. Thank you for being so you are. I have always admired you as a person and caregiver. That admiration is obviously very well deserved.
On to the point of the thread. My father drank himself to death. He had literally become a recluse sitting in the back room of my parents condo drinking, smoking, shitting himself and even setting the kitchen on fire twice. I will never understand the ultimate sadness that must go along with the depression and desperation that accompanies that type of thing. Ultimately my dad fell in the bathroom hitting his head on a soap dish and scalping himself. A large half moon shape of his scalp was peeled back about three inches. He said nothing as my mom was at church when this happened and it wasn't until my mom saw blood on the floor and went and found him sitting in his chair with an adult diaper on his head, smoking a cigarette and drinking a double Smirnoff. He refused to go to hospital saying he just wanted to watch the Bears playoff game. She called the ambulance and he ultimately went. I arrived from Texas around 4p and my mother picked me up at Midway airport. She informed me that he was stable and in his own room. During the thirty minutes she had left to pick me up he had been moved to CICU after suffering a mild heart attack. I won't go into the tenuous relationship my father and I had in my early years other than to say he had recently tried the best he knew how to repair that relationship as did I. When I arrived, he perked up and asked me to move to him so he could whisper in my ear. His last words were to me and they're a memory I'd selfishly prefer to keep as my own. Shortly thereafter he slipped into unconsciousness. He developed pneumonia and sepsis. He had a DNR in place that he signed again upon his arrival at the hospital. His doctor said that he wanted to put him on a ventilator for 24 hours to see if they could turn the tide of the infection. My mother seriously struggled with this decision and my evil sister was threatening her with legal action if she didn't acquiesce and allow the ventilation. Both of them failed to notice, as did I, that my father had left that decision to me. I made the call and had him ventilated and here's why. The doctor said that the ventilator was to give him the best chance at recovery and that he could indeed recover but the chances of it were slim. I understood that it was not an effort to prolong his life. I felt he deserved the best chance to fight his illness.
He chose not to fight. He never regained consciousness and I happened to have my hand over his heart when I felt the strength of it fading. His oxygen count counted down to zero and he was gone. I had all bells and whistles turned off so I took just a moment and turned to my mom, as the doctor peeked around the curtain, and said, "Dad is gone". They had been married 47 years, saddest thing I've ever said to my mom.
He had no more fight Clint. He didn't even try, he was too weak.
I may not completely understand what went into his decision to do this, but I know I couldn't deny him that decision. It's not mine to make. I know that better than ever now. I've seen unexpected suicide and the suffering that comes from a long drawn out terminal illness. This wasn't that. My dad stayed for as long as he wanted to, said what he wanted to and was ready to go. He knew he was not going to see the Bears playoff game, and he was at peace with it.
Keeping someone alive for your own selfish reasons is never the answer. The individual decision does not come lightly.
I believe I/we owe it to one another to not make someone suffer. It's a horrible, horrible thing. It's not the flu and you're just achy and feel like crap. It's the decision to fully live your life on your own terms. I assure you if I was mauled by a mountain lion at the golf outing and was suffering, I'd ask you to keep me as comfortable as you could and let me bleed out. If I had a heart attack and you gave me cpr and I recovered enough to say good bye to my daughter, I'd be forever grateful. If I was suffering from a terminal illness, I'd ask you to take me out on the boat, after I said my good byes, and I'd be happy to slip away as such.
What I'm trying to say is i believe it's your right to choose. It's your right to not want to suffer or be a burden on your children. It's your right to accept mortality as an option. When you think about it, what's your other option?
Such a sobering, sad topic, but a necessary one. Trust me, some of us here will be faced with this very decision. I don't understand what drove my dad's illness but I certainly saw the sadness it brought him. We all tried to do whatever we could to try to get him to stop. He didn't want to stop, he couldn't, he wouldn't. Despair brought on by suffering and illness slowly killed my dad, and it breaks my heart every single fucking day. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone, ever. So yes, I am in favor of allowing people to live their lives on their own terms, to include being at peace that you've done just that.
I'm sorry for the long post but the question deserved a full answer.
You know what's oddly funny though Clint? If I was ever in this position, I would not hesitate to ask you or bleedingpurple to assist me in doing so. I think it takes an incredible amount of compassion for people, to do what you guys do. i can easily tell that every patient you guys have ever had has meant something to you. You guys are my fucking heroes and I mean that with every inch of my being. Absolute heroes.
Hope this helps,
FDC
Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk
First let me say this, yours is one of the best, most well put together posts I have read on this subject. Thank you for being so you are. I have always admired you as a person and caregiver. That admiration is obviously very well deserved.
On to the point of the thread. My father drank himself to death. He had literally become a recluse sitting in the back room of my parents condo drinking, smoking, shitting himself and even setting the kitchen on fire twice. I will never understand the ultimate sadness that must go along with the depression and desperation that accompanies that type of thing. Ultimately my dad fell in the bathroom hitting his head on a soap dish and scalping himself. A large half moon shape of his scalp was peeled back about three inches. He said nothing as my mom was at church when this happened and it wasn't until my mom saw blood on the floor and went and found him sitting in his chair with an adult diaper on his head, smoking a cigarette and drinking a double Smirnoff. He refused to go to hospital saying he just wanted to watch the Bears playoff game. She called the ambulance and he ultimately went. I arrived from Texas around 4p and my mother picked me up at Midway airport. She informed me that he was stable and in his own room. During the thirty minutes she had left to pick me up he had been moved to CICU after suffering a mild heart attack. I won't go into the tenuous relationship my father and I had in my early years other than to say he had recently tried the best he knew how to repair that relationship as did I. When I arrived, he perked up and asked me to move to him so he could whisper in my ear. His last words were to me and they're a memory I'd selfishly prefer to keep as my own. Shortly thereafter he slipped into unconsciousness. He developed pneumonia and sepsis. He had a DNR in place that he signed again upon his arrival at the hospital. His doctor said that he wanted to put him on a ventilator for 24 hours to see if they could turn the tide of the infection. My mother seriously struggled with this decision and my evil sister was threatening her with legal action if she didn't acquiesce and allow the ventilation. Both of them failed to notice, as did I, that my father had left that decision to me. I made the call and had him ventilated and here's why. The doctor said that the ventilator was to give him the best chance at recovery and that he could indeed recover but the chances of it were slim. I understood that it was not an effort to prolong his life. I felt he deserved the best chance to fight his illness.
He chose not to fight. He never regained consciousness and I happened to have my hand over his heart when I felt the strength of it fading. His oxygen count counted down to zero and he was gone. I had all bells and whistles turned off so I took just a moment and turned to my mom, as the doctor peeked around the curtain, and said, "Dad is gone". They had been married 47 years, saddest thing I've ever said to my mom.
He had no more fight Clint. He didn't even try, he was too weak.
I may not completely understand what went into his decision to do this, but I know I couldn't deny him that decision. It's not mine to make. I know that better than ever now. I've seen unexpected suicide and the suffering that comes from a long drawn out terminal illness. This wasn't that. My dad stayed for as long as he wanted to, said what he wanted to and was ready to go. He knew he was not going to see the Bears playoff game, and he was at peace with it.
Keeping someone alive for your own selfish reasons is never the answer. The individual decision does not come lightly.
I believe I/we owe it to one another to not make someone suffer. It's a horrible, horrible thing. It's not the flu and you're just achy and feel like crap. It's the decision to fully live your life on your own terms. I assure you if I was mauled by a mountain lion at the golf outing and was suffering, I'd ask you to keep me as comfortable as you could and let me bleed out. If I had a heart attack and you gave me cpr and I recovered enough to say good bye to my daughter, I'd be forever grateful. If I was suffering from a terminal illness, I'd ask you to take me out on the boat, after I said my good byes, and I'd be happy to slip away as such.
What I'm trying to say is i believe it's your right to choose. It's your right to not want to suffer or be a burden on your children. It's your right to accept mortality as an option. When you think about it, what's your other option?
Such a sobering, sad topic, but a necessary one. Trust me, some of us here will be faced with this very decision. I don't understand what drove my dad's illness but I certainly saw the sadness it brought him. We all tried to do whatever we could to try to get him to stop. He didn't want to stop, he couldn't, he wouldn't. Despair brought on by suffering and illness slowly killed my dad, and it breaks my heart every single fucking day. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone, ever. So yes, I am in favor of allowing people to live their lives on their own terms, to include being at peace that you've done just that.
I'm sorry for the long post but the question deserved a full answer.
You know what's oddly funny though Clint? If I was ever in this position, I would not hesitate to ask you or bleedingpurple to assist me in doing so. I think it takes an incredible amount of compassion for people, to do what you guys do. i can easily tell that every patient you guys have ever had has meant something to you. You guys are my fucking heroes and I mean that with every inch of my being. Absolute heroes.
Hope this helps,
FDC
Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk
I watched all of that video. It was a video in support of the act, so that's the only view that was portrayed. I have mixed emotions about this issue, and I have quite a bit of personal experience. This post might be tldr, so sorry.
My personal saying that I tell people at appropriate times is, "there are worse things in life than death." What I mean is that a life full of pain and suffering and misery or living in a vegetative state or having absolutely no mental faculties is horrible, and the person would be better off deceased. I'm not sure I'm ready to go the next step however and give them a lethal cocktail of medications so they can die.
I think what is missed so often here and something that I have written about before and urged members on here to be aware of is this; understand that resuscitation efforts of a person who isn't breathing or has a heart that has stopped beating or both is a horrible nasty process. It is dehumanizing, it is brutal, and most of the time, it is a failure. Many times a person who is resuscitated Dies again in a short amount of time, and the process is repeated. The family then gets together, the decision is made to not revive the person again, and the patient then dies peacefully. My thought is to avoid any resuscitation efforts in the first place when a person is terminal or if reviving them will not promote quality in their life.
My grandmother had a massive brain stem stroke. She didn't die, but she never woke up again. During the time she was actively dieing, my father made the difficult decision to not give her blood transfusions, IV fluids, and nutrition through a tube or thru a vein. He chose to let nature take its course, and she seemed to die peacefully 3 days later. She was given pain and anxiety medicine when she became restless, but these were not to take her life but to ease her suffering that she showed signs of having (facial grimacing, jerking movements in her arms and legs, and labored breathing). This decision was hard on my dad to make and one he had to do on his own as an only child, but he was given good counsel, and he did not regret it. In our future conversations about this after I learned more and became a nurse, I have tried to reassure him that he indeed do the right thing.
Sometimes at work we have patients who are actively dieing and are made DNR/Classed/no code blue. Most of the time they have a palliative doctor who prescribes large doses of narcotics and benzodiazepines to be administered. This can lead to a moral quandary for some nurses because it kind of makes u feel like u are killing the patient. I always like to work very closely with the family members and follow their wishes in these circumstances and make them as comfortable as I can. I'm ok with this process, and I am because I know my job is to make the patient comfortable just like it always is.
What I did like about the video is that the person who chooses to get the cocktail prescribed has to go thru a process, and it is a liquid they drink. I had visions of lines of people with Alzheimer's disease, the profoundly mentally handicapped, and assorted other people with miserable life conditions being lined up and given a lethal dose on intravenous medication by a stranger because their lives were deemed unworthy by another stranger.
I did some further reading, and there are cases where the person takes the cocktail and does not die as expected
I guess my personal view is that I won't oppose the passing of said legislation if it ever comes to a place I can vote, but I won't support it either. Seems wishy washy, but that's what I think now. If it raises awareness and keeps me from having to do CPR on a 90 year old terminal patient again, then I will be happy. I have some horrible personal experiences that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies when it comes to doing cpr and trying to revive "dead" patients who should have never been put thru those situations.
What you have here is 2 great posts. :0008
terrific posts
I watched my grandma die at 72 in misery....I lived with her for a few years...she was the most lively person when healthy....72 is so young and of course she would have wanted to live longer....if healthy......but she wasn't....she was dying- and she wanted to go on her own terms...but of course there were plenty of people who just wouldn't accept it.......it bravest thing i've ever witnessed in my personal life- she had no regrets....no reservations....she said she was ready to go.
I sat and watch as distant family members and even strangers would try and convince the family that she needed to continue treatments....she needed to fight......it was so clear the fight was gone and she wasn't herself.....she asked me in the middle of July, while waking up in her hospital bed for the first time in 2 days, if I would go out and shovel her driveway- it was july....and she wasn't at her home....she wasn't there at the end- prior to that, when she was present in herself, she made it clear she didn't want to continue on- and often times, those family members would try and tell me that god wouldn't want her quitting and would want her to fight- fuck that, if he cared so much he wouldn't of given her cancer on 2 different occasions and Alzheimer's that was present during liver failure and chemo-
my problem is, the majority of the argument against comes from the church and the insurance company
because they have agendas
the church tries to convince people that it isn't gods will and try to use it as a stage to promote themselves
and
the insurance companies don't make as much money If you are not alive and sick and stuck in a hospital room for 4-12 months while slowly dying in misery....I didn't have much to do in this department, but from everything ive read and seen it seems they are big supporters of not allowing the life end.....wonder why
it just gave me a bad taste in my mouth regarding all of it.........so if I personally ever had to vote myself, I would say let the person decide. not the hospital or whoever- If someone is ready to go, and they do not want to live in their current state- that should be their right-
I watched my grandma die at 72 in misery....I lived with her for a few years...she was the most lively person when healthy....72 is so young and of course she would have wanted to live longer....if healthy......but she wasn't....she was dying- and she wanted to go on her own terms...but of course there were plenty of people who just wouldn't accept it.......it bravest thing i've ever witnessed in my personal life- she had no regrets....no reservations....she said she was ready to go.
I sat and watch as distant family members and even strangers would try and convince the family that she needed to continue treatments....she needed to fight......it was so clear the fight was gone and she wasn't herself.....she asked me in the middle of July, while waking up in her hospital bed for the first time in 2 days, if I would go out and shovel her driveway- it was july....and she wasn't at her home....she wasn't there at the end- prior to that, when she was present in herself, she made it clear she didn't want to continue on- and often times, those family members would try and tell me that god wouldn't want her quitting and would want her to fight- fuck that, if he cared so much he wouldn't of given her cancer on 2 different occasions and Alzheimer's that was present during liver failure and chemo-
my problem is, the majority of the argument against comes from the church and the insurance company
because they have agendas
the church tries to convince people that it isn't gods will and try to use it as a stage to promote themselves
and
the insurance companies don't make as much money If you are not alive and sick and stuck in a hospital room for 4-12 months while slowly dying in misery....I didn't have much to do in this department, but from everything ive read and seen it seems they are big supporters of not allowing the life end.....wonder why
it just gave me a bad taste in my mouth regarding all of it.........so if I personally ever had to vote myself, I would say let the person decide. not the hospital or whoever- If someone is ready to go, and they do not want to live in their current state- that should be their right-
I watched all of that video. It was a video in support of the act, so that's the only view that was portrayed. I have mixed emotions about this issue, and I have quite a bit of personal experience. This post might be tldr, so sorry.
My personal saying that I tell people at appropriate times is, "there are worse things in life than death." What I mean is that a life full of pain and suffering and misery or living in a vegetative state or having absolutely no mental faculties is horrible, and the person would be better off deceased. I'm not sure I'm ready to go the next step however and give them a lethal cocktail of medications so they can die.
I think what is missed so often here and something that I have written about before and urged members on here to be aware of is this; understand that resuscitation efforts of a person who isn't breathing or has a heart that has stopped beating or both is a horrible nasty process. It is dehumanizing, it is brutal, and most of the time, it is a failure. Many times a person who is resuscitated Dies again in a short amount of time, and the process is repeated. The family then gets together, the decision is made to not revive the person again, and the patient then dies peacefully. My thought is to avoid any resuscitation efforts in the first place when a person is terminal or if reviving them will not promote quality in their life.
My grandmother had a massive brain stem stroke. She didn't die, but she never woke up again. During the time she was actively dieing, my father made the difficult decision to not give her blood transfusions, IV fluids, and nutrition through a tube or thru a vein. He chose to let nature take its course, and she seemed to die peacefully 3 days later. She was given pain and anxiety medicine when she became restless, but these were not to take her life but to ease her suffering that she showed signs of having (facial grimacing, jerking movements in her arms and legs, and labored breathing). This decision was hard on my dad to make and one he had to do on his own as an only child, but he was given good counsel, and he did not regret it. In our future conversations about this after I learned more and became a nurse, I have tried to reassure him that he indeed do the right thing.
Sometimes at work we have patients who are actively dieing and are made DNR/Classed/no code blue. Most of the time they have a palliative doctor who prescribes large doses of narcotics and benzodiazepines to be administered. This can lead to a moral quandary for some nurses because it kind of makes u feel like u are killing the patient. I always like to work very closely with the family members and follow their wishes in these circumstances and make them as comfortable as I can. I'm ok with this process, and I am because I know my job is to make the patient comfortable just like it always is.
What I did like about the video is that the person who chooses to get the cocktail prescribed has to go thru a process, and it is a liquid they drink. I had visions of lines of people with Alzheimer's disease, the profoundly mentally handicapped, and assorted other people with miserable life conditions being lined up and given a lethal dose on intravenous medication by a stranger because their lives were deemed unworthy by another stranger.
I did some further reading, and there are cases where the person takes the cocktail and does not die as expected
I guess my personal view is that I won't oppose the passing of said legislation if it ever comes to a place I can vote, but I won't support it either. Seems wishy washy, but that's what I think now. If it raises awareness and keeps me from having to do CPR on a 90 year old terminal patient again, then I will be happy. I have some horrible personal experiences that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies when it comes to doing cpr and trying to revive "dead" patients who should have never been put thru those situations.
from your trip to help abroad, and other encounters on here, you are one of the ones id love to meet
I would want you in my corner if I ever found myself in a hospital bed with serious issues
hats off to you for all you do to help others....awesome stuff man
