I made a request for a 6000 payout from camelot on 22. I was told it would be bank wired the next day. Later I was told it would go out last friday and then told i would have the fed ex tracking number no later than this morning. no ttacking number and then was told by Mark tonight he is not sure when the money will be available. My remaining balance still being over 6000. I read everyone is getting paid their full balance and i cant get a partial payment. I will not make this mistake again
run around from camelot
- Thread starter harris22
- Start date
i hope people aren't going into panic mode and camelot doesn't have the money to pay becuase my cousin has also been waiting over 2 weeks for his withdrawl from them. good luck to you harris22! i saw this article at covers:
Play or not to play (Camelot) -- That's the question 2/26/2002
The front man for Canadian-based sportsbook betCamelot publicly admits he dipped into customer 'post-up' money to keep his company afloat.
What the ****? There are so many things wrong with this situation that I don't even know where to begin.
Of all people, Mark Del -- who went to school to become a lawyer -- should know better than to take his clients' hard-earned money without asking. Even if he had his 300 customers' best interests in mind when he 'borrowed' the money, it's still wrong.
Hey lawyer Mark, do ya know what that's called? Embezzlement. Theft. Fraud. Whatever you want to call it, it all adds up to one shady practise.
What you did is absolutely no different than a lawyer taking money from a client's trust fund. The punishment for such an unethical deed is disbarment and possibly jail time.
Del discussed his unforgivable business philosophy with the Rx in an article discussing the recent financial instability of his sportsbook.
In the article, Del freely admits he was wrong to have taken the money that was never his in the first place. "I first dipped into the post-up monies in either late October or November. I knew it was wrong, but I had no other choice," he was quoted as saying.
He had no other choice?
Come on Mark. That's like telling the cops you had no other choice but steal the car because you couldn't afford the bus.
He can't remember when he started doing it?
That's a sure sign of trouble. Either he has a terrible memory, or he has done it so often, he can't recall when the dominos started to fall. My guess? The trouble probably started right around the time Camelot started posting lines on the Little League World Series. That would be true poetic justice.
Our industry is fighting tooth and nail to walk away from the Wild Wild West perception. And then something like this happens.
I have seen posts in various discussion forums defending Del's financial shell game with 'post-ups' as something that happens all the time in the industry. "It's common practise for sportsbooks to use post-up money," one person wrote.
Bullshit. Just because it happens, doesn't mean it's right.
And another thing. Del claims Rx was irresponsible to have written an article about Camelot's pending demise, calling it "completely unnecessary." I'm not going to pontificate on the pros and cons of these types of news articles - mainly because I'm not sure what the correct approach should be - but in my opinion that was probably the most unbiased investigative article that has appeared on the Rx in quite some time.
Del claims to have had someone waiting in the wings, ready to come riding in on his white horse to save the day.
If you're to believe this embezzler's word, a new owner was lined up before the Rx story broke. But everyone was keeping quiet about it, so as to not set off any alarm bells.
"Camelot Sportsbook is happy to announce that we have been sold to a new company," Del writes in one of his many forum posts. "We were planning to make this announcement later this week, but we had to speed it up because of the article recently written on the Rx."
Truth to be told, Del wouldn't have told anyone of the sale if it hadn't come out in a news article. He would have crossed his fingers and hoped nobody would notice.
As a pre-emptive strike on Sunday night, he sent the following e-mail to his customers, explaining why users might not be able to get through on the phone, or why the Web site might be down.
This is reminder to all Camelot account holders that as scheduled, we will be moving into our new offices on Monday February 25th. As a result, do not be alarmed if you are unable to reach us by phone for a significant part of the day as they will be moving phone lines from one office to the other. We do not anticipate any interruption of our internet site, but if you cannot log onto the homepage for a brief period of time, please be patient and the site will be up and running a 100% capacity by late Monday afternoon.
Thank you for choosing Camelot.
Mark Del, Manager
Camelot Sportsbook
Nowhere in this informative e-mail does it mention anything about financial trouble, or the fact the sportsbook is being sold.
When I first received the forwarded e-mail from a concerned customer, I thought to myself, "Good for Mark. He's actually notifying people of a possible interruption so as to not worry his customers."
But then 12 hours later I discover the site is being sold, and there is reason for concern.
Maybe the move is coincidental to the pending sale. Maybe the move had been planned for months, and this was just bad timing. Even so, it would have been a perfect opportunity for Del to let his users know the sale had gone through.
Let's look at the timeline here: The e-mail was sent Sunday Feb. 24 at 10:45 p.m. The Rx story is posted Monday morning at 10:30 a.m. And Del posts he has a buyer Monday at 10:45 a.m.
Are you gonna try and tell me he didn't have a buyer at 10:45 p.m. Sunday, but all of the sudden does at 10:45 a.m. the following morning?
Come on Mark. Even if the ink isn't dry on the sale, you obviously had a good idea -- and I'd go so far as to say a responsibility -- to keep your users informed to at least some degree.
So, Del claims the company is in better shape now because of the infusion of funds, and you shouldn't make a run on the bank.
To put a twist on the famous Shakespeare quote: To play, or not to play. That is the question.
The answer, based on what I have just written in this column?
Using lawyer-speak Del will surely understand: You be the judge.
Play or not to play (Camelot) -- That's the question 2/26/2002
The front man for Canadian-based sportsbook betCamelot publicly admits he dipped into customer 'post-up' money to keep his company afloat.
What the ****? There are so many things wrong with this situation that I don't even know where to begin.
Of all people, Mark Del -- who went to school to become a lawyer -- should know better than to take his clients' hard-earned money without asking. Even if he had his 300 customers' best interests in mind when he 'borrowed' the money, it's still wrong.
Hey lawyer Mark, do ya know what that's called? Embezzlement. Theft. Fraud. Whatever you want to call it, it all adds up to one shady practise.
What you did is absolutely no different than a lawyer taking money from a client's trust fund. The punishment for such an unethical deed is disbarment and possibly jail time.
Del discussed his unforgivable business philosophy with the Rx in an article discussing the recent financial instability of his sportsbook.
In the article, Del freely admits he was wrong to have taken the money that was never his in the first place. "I first dipped into the post-up monies in either late October or November. I knew it was wrong, but I had no other choice," he was quoted as saying.
He had no other choice?
Come on Mark. That's like telling the cops you had no other choice but steal the car because you couldn't afford the bus.
He can't remember when he started doing it?
That's a sure sign of trouble. Either he has a terrible memory, or he has done it so often, he can't recall when the dominos started to fall. My guess? The trouble probably started right around the time Camelot started posting lines on the Little League World Series. That would be true poetic justice.
Our industry is fighting tooth and nail to walk away from the Wild Wild West perception. And then something like this happens.
I have seen posts in various discussion forums defending Del's financial shell game with 'post-ups' as something that happens all the time in the industry. "It's common practise for sportsbooks to use post-up money," one person wrote.
Bullshit. Just because it happens, doesn't mean it's right.
And another thing. Del claims Rx was irresponsible to have written an article about Camelot's pending demise, calling it "completely unnecessary." I'm not going to pontificate on the pros and cons of these types of news articles - mainly because I'm not sure what the correct approach should be - but in my opinion that was probably the most unbiased investigative article that has appeared on the Rx in quite some time.
Del claims to have had someone waiting in the wings, ready to come riding in on his white horse to save the day.
If you're to believe this embezzler's word, a new owner was lined up before the Rx story broke. But everyone was keeping quiet about it, so as to not set off any alarm bells.
"Camelot Sportsbook is happy to announce that we have been sold to a new company," Del writes in one of his many forum posts. "We were planning to make this announcement later this week, but we had to speed it up because of the article recently written on the Rx."
Truth to be told, Del wouldn't have told anyone of the sale if it hadn't come out in a news article. He would have crossed his fingers and hoped nobody would notice.
As a pre-emptive strike on Sunday night, he sent the following e-mail to his customers, explaining why users might not be able to get through on the phone, or why the Web site might be down.
This is reminder to all Camelot account holders that as scheduled, we will be moving into our new offices on Monday February 25th. As a result, do not be alarmed if you are unable to reach us by phone for a significant part of the day as they will be moving phone lines from one office to the other. We do not anticipate any interruption of our internet site, but if you cannot log onto the homepage for a brief period of time, please be patient and the site will be up and running a 100% capacity by late Monday afternoon.
Thank you for choosing Camelot.
Mark Del, Manager
Camelot Sportsbook
Nowhere in this informative e-mail does it mention anything about financial trouble, or the fact the sportsbook is being sold.
When I first received the forwarded e-mail from a concerned customer, I thought to myself, "Good for Mark. He's actually notifying people of a possible interruption so as to not worry his customers."
But then 12 hours later I discover the site is being sold, and there is reason for concern.
Maybe the move is coincidental to the pending sale. Maybe the move had been planned for months, and this was just bad timing. Even so, it would have been a perfect opportunity for Del to let his users know the sale had gone through.
Let's look at the timeline here: The e-mail was sent Sunday Feb. 24 at 10:45 p.m. The Rx story is posted Monday morning at 10:30 a.m. And Del posts he has a buyer Monday at 10:45 a.m.
Are you gonna try and tell me he didn't have a buyer at 10:45 p.m. Sunday, but all of the sudden does at 10:45 a.m. the following morning?
Come on Mark. Even if the ink isn't dry on the sale, you obviously had a good idea -- and I'd go so far as to say a responsibility -- to keep your users informed to at least some degree.
So, Del claims the company is in better shape now because of the infusion of funds, and you shouldn't make a run on the bank.
To put a twist on the famous Shakespeare quote: To play, or not to play. That is the question.
The answer, based on what I have just written in this column?
Using lawyer-speak Del will surely understand: You be the judge.
I have been using offshore accounts along with my local for sometime now. I used the offshore books to try and get better or different lines. Once I started using the offshores I made a couple of rules for myself so as not to get burned to bad if they folded up and just kept the money. These are rules I believe any player would follow but are for people just getting into the offshores.
Try and keep the same amount each week in your account if you have had a profitable week. By this I mean drag out your winnings to the balance you have set for account. This balance SHOULD be as low as possible that you are comfortable with when betting games. For example If you set your account balance at $4000 and win say $ 1000 that week drag out that profit of $1000 and keep your account balance at that $4000. To me that makes pretty much sense. If they fold you keep your balance at a good low betting number and you are at least getting your profit each week.
If possible cash wise use 2-3 different books. Its like the old saying don't put all your eggs in 1 basket. A warning try and find out if possible to make sure the different books aren't owned by the same people using different names. This is probably next to impossible but it is worth a shot. It is your hard earned money...
Start a paypal account. I have just recently been using this method of payment. I set up the paypal to go through a different checking account(not my primary account). Most books will let you drag cash out and credit it straight to your paypal. I then in turn take the paypal cash out and put it my secondarty checking. I use the secondary checking for security purposes not that I don't trust paypal but there hackers out there who can be pretty good at their job and I dont want my primary being exposed. You can easily deposit or withdraw money from the paypal account and do the same with your books through paypal. Keeping that balance to a minimum so as not to risk losing as much if they fold.
I know it is close to impossible but some of your own research on the books. Go to other forums and see who people are using. First start at MJ's these people here are about as honest as you can get. If madjack has a book that advertises here you can bet he endorses it. I hope that I am not offending you jack for speaking for you. As everybody probably knows you have your cash in these books. Also if you do us 1 of these books here at madjacks I don't know how many times jack has been able to help straighten things out at the book.
Never and I mean never put more into an offshore account that you can't stand to lose at a drop of a hat because anyone of these books can fold anytime. This is an offshore account and people there is a risk. Also keeping that low minimum betting balance helped me in money management. You get a big balance in there and all of a sudden you are betting more than usual and all that spells is trouble. Keep that balance as low as possible and you can't go wild.
Offshores are a risk! But what we do as a hobby or profession is a risk. Yes you can get better or different lines to make some profit but if you keep those balances down to the minimum you keep that risk to a minimum. I know this is probably old news to some people but thought I would post this for any new people looking at offshores. Now the only problem is to pick the right team to JUST COVER and make some cash...
good luck
just cover
Try and keep the same amount each week in your account if you have had a profitable week. By this I mean drag out your winnings to the balance you have set for account. This balance SHOULD be as low as possible that you are comfortable with when betting games. For example If you set your account balance at $4000 and win say $ 1000 that week drag out that profit of $1000 and keep your account balance at that $4000. To me that makes pretty much sense. If they fold you keep your balance at a good low betting number and you are at least getting your profit each week.
If possible cash wise use 2-3 different books. Its like the old saying don't put all your eggs in 1 basket. A warning try and find out if possible to make sure the different books aren't owned by the same people using different names. This is probably next to impossible but it is worth a shot. It is your hard earned money...
Start a paypal account. I have just recently been using this method of payment. I set up the paypal to go through a different checking account(not my primary account). Most books will let you drag cash out and credit it straight to your paypal. I then in turn take the paypal cash out and put it my secondarty checking. I use the secondary checking for security purposes not that I don't trust paypal but there hackers out there who can be pretty good at their job and I dont want my primary being exposed. You can easily deposit or withdraw money from the paypal account and do the same with your books through paypal. Keeping that balance to a minimum so as not to risk losing as much if they fold.
I know it is close to impossible but some of your own research on the books. Go to other forums and see who people are using. First start at MJ's these people here are about as honest as you can get. If madjack has a book that advertises here you can bet he endorses it. I hope that I am not offending you jack for speaking for you. As everybody probably knows you have your cash in these books. Also if you do us 1 of these books here at madjacks I don't know how many times jack has been able to help straighten things out at the book.
Never and I mean never put more into an offshore account that you can't stand to lose at a drop of a hat because anyone of these books can fold anytime. This is an offshore account and people there is a risk. Also keeping that low minimum betting balance helped me in money management. You get a big balance in there and all of a sudden you are betting more than usual and all that spells is trouble. Keep that balance as low as possible and you can't go wild.
Offshores are a risk! But what we do as a hobby or profession is a risk. Yes you can get better or different lines to make some profit but if you keep those balances down to the minimum you keep that risk to a minimum. I know this is probably old news to some people but thought I would post this for any new people looking at offshores. Now the only problem is to pick the right team to JUST COVER and make some cash...
good luck
just cover
Wasn't Camelot an advertiser here?
I thought I saw them up as a sponsor just last week. Perhaps that's why MVP is on the list twice, to fill that spot?
FWIW, MW has taken Camelot off its recommended list.
You get what you get in this business. One thing just cover mentioned that I disagree with:
Leaving you original amount in, and pulling your winnings, is not always a "smart" way to gamble.
I fully understand what you meant, but you would only be able to do that if you never increased your wager size. If I was on a run, I would be betting larger amounts, thus, need that extra cash to bet with.
The problem these outfits have, is that they assume that they will always be on the winning side. That just won't be the case. If they do not have a 50/50 split on the cash on a game, they take a chance at losing money. Remember, these guys are mostly gamblers, who know that the bettor usually loses, and the house wins. (That was their experience, as bettors. That's why they tried this side of of the window!)
The fact remains, that if you book $100,000 worth of wagers, and only have $50,000 in the kitty, you could be in deep shit!
We are dealing with virtual "ghosts" here. I don't know who they are, do you? Money causes people to do things that they might not do otherwise. Since the books only "lose" money when you ask for a withdrawl, they have a false sense of security when they lose.
Their ledger might show them in the hole for $15,000 after a night, but they can play on, hoping to get it back in the coming nights. Like I said, if you don't ask for it, they don't "owe" it. (In their mind!)
I have no idea about the solvency of any of these places, and my thinking might be part of the problem when I say I would not have a penny in them right now. But, I think we will see more of these places fold in record fashion over the next few months, as people are grabbing their cash! I would not doubt that would be what Cameltoe is going through right now. It's kind of like panic in the stock market. "Get out while you can!" scream the masses.
I don't know what the future holds, but I don't think we will have hundreds of books offshore in the next 18 months.
Leaving you original amount in, and pulling your winnings, is not always a "smart" way to gamble.
I fully understand what you meant, but you would only be able to do that if you never increased your wager size. If I was on a run, I would be betting larger amounts, thus, need that extra cash to bet with.
The problem these outfits have, is that they assume that they will always be on the winning side. That just won't be the case. If they do not have a 50/50 split on the cash on a game, they take a chance at losing money. Remember, these guys are mostly gamblers, who know that the bettor usually loses, and the house wins. (That was their experience, as bettors. That's why they tried this side of of the window!)
The fact remains, that if you book $100,000 worth of wagers, and only have $50,000 in the kitty, you could be in deep shit!
We are dealing with virtual "ghosts" here. I don't know who they are, do you? Money causes people to do things that they might not do otherwise. Since the books only "lose" money when you ask for a withdrawl, they have a false sense of security when they lose.
Their ledger might show them in the hole for $15,000 after a night, but they can play on, hoping to get it back in the coming nights. Like I said, if you don't ask for it, they don't "owe" it. (In their mind!)
I have no idea about the solvency of any of these places, and my thinking might be part of the problem when I say I would not have a penny in them right now. But, I think we will see more of these places fold in record fashion over the next few months, as people are grabbing their cash! I would not doubt that would be what Cameltoe is going through right now. It's kind of like panic in the stock market. "Get out while you can!" scream the masses.
I don't know what the future holds, but I don't think we will have hundreds of books offshore in the next 18 months.