Stay the Course

StevieD

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During an interview today on ABC?s This Week, President Bush tried to
distance himself from what has been his core strategy in Iraq for the
last three years. George Stephanopoulos asked about James Baker?s plan
to develop a strategy for Iraq that is ?between ?stay the course? and
?cut and run.??

Bush responded, ?We?ve never been stay the course, George!?


Bush is wrong:


BUSH: We will stay the course. [8/30/06]


BUSH: We will stay the course, we will complete the job in Iraq.
[8/4/05]


BUSH: We will stay the course until the job is done, Steve. And the
temptation is to try to get the President or somebody to put a
timetable on the definition of getting the job done. We?re just going
to stay the course. [12/15/03]


BUSH: And my message today to those in Iraq is: We?ll stay the course.
[4/13/04]


BUSH: And that?s why we?re going to stay the course in Iraq. And
that?s why when we say something in Iraq, we?re going to do it.
[4/16/04]


BUSH: And so we?ve got tough action in Iraq. But we will stay the
course. [4/5/04]
 

smurphy

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You two are pathetic. Stop giving aid and comfort to the enemy with your leftist rhetoric.

Stay the course at not staying the course. 60% of the time it works every time.
 

Chadman

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Hey, if we've learned nothing else, we've learned that it all depends on what your definition of "Stay the Course" means.

As G-Dub accurately points out, "We've never BEEN stay the course." He never said that they've never SAID stay the course.

Big difference. Of course. He's never BEEN on point, either.
 

smurphy

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This all comes from that old saying in Texas - they might also have this saying in Tennessee - "Stay the course once, shame on.........you can't stay the course again."
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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I would probably say GW had brain fart--can't see him deviating to Somolia tactics--and despite what press wants you to believe--again we get pleads from Iraq today not to abandom them.

As I read over threads like these on war--I have think of what makes a liberals day.

--any bad news on war--good news for liberals
--Market setting records daily--and gas dropping around $ 2 --bad news for liberals.

interesting--but not surprising.

Would be interesting if we had threads dating back to Clinton--I would be curious to what conservatives thoughts would have been per economy-war efforts or lack there of ect.
Wonder if we would have been so bitter to let politics get in way of what was good for country.

Might get to see in 08 -looks like liberals might get Hilliary ond Osama--as 1-2 punch of pres and vice pres--Peloski Speaker of house--Dean head of party--would be a real test--:)
 

Chadman

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Are you kidding me? Every thread we have here that hints of poor performance by George Bush ends up dating back to Bill Clinton. You of all people should know that, my friend. You see to that.

Bad news on the war is bad news for all Americans. Especially for liberals that were against this war all along...the news just gets worse for us. I for one am NEVER happy to hear of our soldiers dying for the cause of this President, whatever that is/may have been. You say it's a good day for me when the war goes badly? That's bullcrap in a Texas-sized box. Sounds good, flippant, talking point, but not true. Does it make our case stronger? Probably. Does it make us happy? You have a strange perception of what makes me happy, I can only really vouch for that.

It's certainly bad news for Republicans who support, um, er, being the course, or staying the being, or whatever.

No doubt Rove is trying to spin a new "thought process" on talking about the war, since it is taking such a dreadful toll on public opinion about Bush and republicans who support the war in general.
 

StevieD

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Bahgdad Dogs, just where in this thread do you see anyone celebrating bad news on Iraq? Twist it however you like but your Neocon hero is a friggin' liar.
Yes and Dogs, please show me where anyone is celebrating bad news on Iraq? You threw it out so back it up.:shrug:
 

The Sponge

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:142smilie :shrug: :nono: :mj07:

wtf is wrong with this guy? THAT'S ALL HE'S BEEN SAYING FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS!

He said the same thing over and over again about looking into financial records of terrorist and then when the NY times broke the story he made it like they found out something they shouldn't have known. Finally, and i forget who it was, showed him in ten different clips talking about looking at terrorist financial records even as far back as a year. If he said this about stay the course im sure Olberman will expose him tonight. The Ivy league college graduate with the get Bush agenda.
 

Terryray

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Atlantic Monthly online | October 22, 2006

Dispatch | by Robert D. Kaplan

We Can't Just Withdraw


Iraq may be closer to an explosion of genocide than we know.

Staying the course may be a dead end. But don't think for a moment that "redeploying" is any less risky than invading.


.....

If only Iraq were like Vietnam. After the 60-day siege of An Loc in the spring of 1972, where heavily outnumbered South Vietnamese troops and their American advisors rebuffed several North Vietnamese divisions, the Saigon government found itself in a superficially strong position, which gave President Richard M. Nixon the fig leaf he needed for a final withdrawal. South Vietnam had rarely been safer since the start of the war. You could travel around the country in relative security. Optimism might have been unwarranted, but it wasn't altogether blind.

More crucially, Vietnam had ultimately two chains of command, the South and North Vietnamese governments. Negotiations through third parties were easily organized, if hard to conduct. Vietnam was merely split, but Iraq is pulverized. To call Iraq a civil war is to be kind: within each sectarian community there is no group really in control. Nouri al-Maliki's government is little more than another faction that adds complexity rather than coherence to the situation.

Because no one is able to monopolize the use of force among either the Sunnis or Shiites, within each community various groups are in fierce competition over who can best defend it, which translates into who can murder more members of the other community. Even formal groupings like Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim's Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI) and Moqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army are aggregations of many smaller factions and death squads, whom their leaders don't always control. Only when the political struggle within each sectarian community calms down can the civil war itself be ameliorated. Right now, there is no one on any side with the pivotal power to negotiate with the other.



An emerging school of thought says that the only real leverage we're going to have is the threat of withdrawal, which would concentrate the minds of the various groups to seek modalities with each other for governing the country. That's a bet, not a plan. You could also bet that any timetable for withdrawal will lead to a meltdown of the Iraq Army according to region and sect. Even if we promise that all of our military advisors will stay put, in addition to our air and special operations assets, no one in a culture of rumor and conspiracy theory might believe us.



Because it turned out we had no postwar plan, our invasion (which I supported) amounted to a bet. Our withdrawal, when it comes to that, must be different. If we decide to reduce forces in the country under the current anarchic conditions, then we are both morally and strategically obligated to talk with Iran and Syria, as well as call for a regional conference. Iraq may be closer to an explosion of genocide than we know. An odd event, or the announcement of pulling 20,000 American troops out, might trigger it. We simply cannot contemplate withdrawal under these conditions without putting Iraq's neighbors on the spot, forcing them to share public responsibility for the outcome, that is if they choose to stand aside and not help us.


What we should all fear is a political situation in Washington where a new Congress forces President George W. Bush to redeploy, and Bush, doing so under duress, makes only the most half-hearted of gestures to engage Iraq's neighbors in the process. That could lead to hundreds of thousands of dead in Iraq, rather than the tens of thousands we have seen. An Iran that continues to enrich uranium is less of a threat to us than genocide in Iraq. A belligerent, nuclear Iran is something we will, as a last resort, be able to defend against militarily. And it probably won't come to that. But if we disengage from Iraq without publicly involving its neighbors, Sunni Arabs?who will bear the brunt of the mass murder?will hate us for years to come from Morocco to Pakistan. Our single greatest priority at the moment is preventing Iraq from sliding off the abyss.


A tottering Iraq, informally divided into Iranian and Syrian zones of influence, even as Iran continues to enrich uranium, is an awful prospect. But it is not without possibilities: states like Egypt and Saudi Arabia, to balance against the new Shiite hegemony, will implicitly move closer to us and to Israel, perhaps providing useful assistance in a settlement of the Palestinian issue. Meanwhile, Teheran and Damascus will become further enmeshed in Iraq's problems. Future violence in Mesopotamia will become their fault; not ours. The weak border between Syria and the fundamentalist Sunni region of Iraq could well undermine the Alawite regime. We will manage.



What we will not be able to manage is a genocide, mainly of the Sunnis, that we alone will be seen as responsible for. Any withdrawal?with all of its military, diplomatic, economic aid, and emergency relief aid aspects?has to be as meticulously planned-out as our occupation wasn't. Staying the course may be a dead end. But don't think for a moment that "redeploying" is any less risky than invading.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Only got one more comment--

If terrorist/Alquada/UBL ect were reading comments here --do you think you'd see a smile or dejection on their face--is it any wonder UBL came out in 04 with his campaign speech--
---and what about survailence--military commisions act--NYT 43 front page prison ordeal-attorneys for terrorist ect ect ect--how is it liberals and terrorist have so much in common?
 

StevieD

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Dog's, you don't want us to discuss Iraq? Who cares what the terrorists think. They will most likely jump for joy at your comments. They are beating us financially. The scondrells who got us into this mess must be replaced. Admit it. This Iraq thing blew up in your face.
 

djv

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Only problem I can't get handle on is this. We knock this little country off in 32 days. We start on a course of stay the course. Most retired High up commanders now home speak up about there not sure what that course was either. and Now even some active duty ones are asking same question.
Believe that shows bad leader ship at Rummys door step. And sure makes Bush look a little behind the curve letting him run this war. WE for got to secure the dam place. But when we can't even secure our borders right here at home what do yuu expect. There is no plan.
 

smurphy

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Only got one more comment--

If terrorist/Alquada/UBL ect were reading comments here --do you think you'd see a smile or dejection on their face--is it any wonder UBL came out in 04 with his campaign speech--
---and what about survailence--military commisions act--NYT 43 front page prison ordeal-attorneys for terrorist ect ect ect--how is it liberals and terrorist have so much in common?
I don't give a flying fk what UBL or other terrorist "think" from these posts. I think you have an inflated sense of the impact of our words, debate, and basic freedom of speech has on terrorists. They don't hinge on every poll we have or pray for us to have voices of descent towards our leaders. I really don't think they have enough concept of us to appreciate, be discouraged, or find aid and comfort in our words. It's not words that gave rise to this enemy - it has and still is actions far and above anything else.

You act concerned about the impact of we or the NYT says, yet completely ignore the impact of killing unkown thousands and occupying a ME country. Tell me where the logic is in that? What inspires the enemy more - our own democratic debate or the invasion of their country?
 

Chadman

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Maybe you, and your leader, would have more impact and credibility on terra-rism if he was actually going after the terra-rists.
 
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