The Great Global Warming Swindle

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samayam

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This was a 5 part series that aired in the UK about 2 weeks ago. It has a collection of quality scientists from around the world discussing what has become a global warming obsession world wide. It applies reason, logic and facts to display how out of control the human driven, CO2 global warming movement has become. Regardless of your position, it is an informative watch tackling every aspect of the issue from science to politics to its world wide implications. It runs around 75 minutes, but it is worth every minute. Give it a watch, and respond with your thoughts.
I only ask that you apply as much reason to your response that the authors of the film applied to their piece. Leave angry partisan retoric at the door please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU
 

Jabberwocky

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Climate scientist 'duped to deny global warming'


Ben Goldacre and David Adam
Sunday March 11, 2007
The Observer


A leading US climate scientist is considering legal action after he says he was duped into appearing in a Channel 4 documentary that claimed man-made global warming is a myth. Carl Wunsch, professor of physical oceanography at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said the film, The Great Global Warming Swindle, was 'grossly distorted' and 'as close to pure propaganda as anything since World War Two'.
He says his comments in the film were taken out of context and that he would not have agreed to take part if he had known it would argue that man-made global warming was not a serious threat.
 
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Jabberwocky

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The documentary had plenty of big names, and much name-dropping of institutions and awards. The content, however, was riddled with old half-truths and some straw man arguments thrown in for good measure. The main content is summarized below, and annotated with comment and links for better info. I would be happy to discuss any of my comments here - feel free to make corrections, improvements, additions below.

1. Climate is always changing, this temperature is not strange. We shouldn't worry, as warming will bring "vineyards ... [a] wonderfully rich time." (Philip Scott) Climatologists have never denied that temperature variation has been a part of the Earth's history. What is worrying, however, is that the levels of CO2 are higher than they have been for 650,000 years (link) and likely in 20 million years (link), and the rate that current changes are taking place (see here and here) are much faster than they have been in the past. And while we may have vineyards and a wonderful time here in the UK, the developing countries will certainly get the short end of the stick.

2. Historically, CO2 trends appears to lag global mean temperature increases; CO2 doesn't drive temperature change. Yet another old argument. Oddly, they laugh at Al Gore's comment that the relationship between CO2 and temperature change is "complicated", suggesting he was glossing over the details and hid the truth. (If the carbon cycle isn't complicated, I don't know what is!) They then proceed to give an overly simplistic view of the climate, stating that during the heaviest industrialisation post-WWI, there was global cooling - therefore CO2 had no effect. They fatally neglect the time lag for warming from CO2, or the cooling impact from aerosols like SO2. But Real Climate to debunk their claim here: the apparent lag of CO2 from temperature in the historical records is a result of feedbacks which release more CO2.

3. Human's can't change the atmosphere - it's so immense. [Update 15.03.07: Having read the transcript, I see that misheard Stott's comment. He indicated the Sun was so immense, suggesting we were just small fry with no impact. I think my comment still holds, however.] Logical fallacy here - appealing to emotion and wonder. For a really accessible example of humans impacting the climate, we just have to look at the impact that the lack of airplane contrails had on temperature in the US after 9/11 (link).

4. Humans contribute only a minor part of total CO2. This is also not disputed. However, we do know that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and that humans have contributed to recent increases in CO2 concentrations (link, link). It appears, that by disrupting the natural balance of the carbon cycle (which involves the atmosphere, plants, animals, oceans, and geology), we are able to warm the planet.

5. The surface of the Earth is warming faster than the troposphere, which is the opposite of what greenhouse warming theory would suggest. This argument has been going on for years. However, a 2004 article in Nature (link, and more discussion here) puts rest to these concerns, and the IPCC Fourth Assessment report will conclude that the troposphere is warming at least as quickly as the surface - consistent with theory. The confusion of whether the troposphere was warming quickly enough arose from a cooling bias from the stratosphere (which cooled as a result of less ozone). [Update 15.03.07: See also a US CCSP report which Christy himself co-authored here. It said: "Previously reported discrepancies between the amount of warming near the surface and higher in the atmosphere have been used to challenge the reliability of climate models and the reality of human induced global warming. ... This significant discrepancy no longer exists because errors in the satellite and radiosonde data have been identified and corrected."]

7. Cosmic rays can explain warming, as they affect cloud cover - which has a cooling affect. The argument from Nigel Calder and Danish space science skeptics has been seen before, and on BBC's Newsnight - where Calder was thoroughly demolished by an atmospheric physicist from Imperial College. Basically, the Danes have found that cosmic rays produced ionized particles, an published it in a peer reviewed paper here. The article made no mention of global warming or climate change, but Calder and the Danes wrote a book anyway, making numerous jumps of assumption to say that those ionized particles would produce more clouds and thus cool the Earth. However, those assumptions have not been peer-reviewed, and there exists no long-term trend for cosmic ray flux, while global mean temperature keeps rising. RealClimate has discussed his claim (here). More arguments for cosmic rays came from Nir Shaviv et al. These have also been questioned in peer-reviewed literature here and discussed in RealClimate.org here.

6. Media and scientific self-interest in reporting more and more dramatic results. The global warming community needs to perpetuate itself to keep the money flowing. This, however, is not an argument against the science, but a clever tactic by the documentary makers to get the audience thinking that it is all a big conspiracy. Yet they fail to mention that hysteria is not new to the media - see crime, pedophilia, and immigrants as other examples. As for self-interest in science, it is of course in anyone's interest to promote the importance of their work - for publicity or money. However, the documentary makers failed to show how this debunked the theory of global warming.

8. Environmentalists say industrialisation causes global warming, and thus want to stop industrialisation and the great improvments it has given our lives. A straw man argument if I've ever seen one. By associating CO2 emissions with industrialisation and economic growth, the documentary plays an emotional trick by making us think that the quality of life we have will be taken away from us if the environmentalists had their way. While CO2 emissions are indeed associated with industrialisation, it is not a relationship that cannot be undone. For example, Vestas in Denmark have generated immense wealth by producing wind power generators. China has recently decoupled economic growth from greenhouse gas emissions growth (link) [Update 15.03.07: Better info in this and this article. Thanks, Bruce, for the comment.].

9. "Developing countries are coming under intense pressure not to develop." They finally claimed that environmentalists are stopping developing countries from installing fossil fuel plants, forcing them instead to use expensive renewable source of energy instead. This was called "anti-human". Unfortunately, no evidence was presented on this point - no data on World Bank projects, or similar. They did, however, visit a hospital that had been fitted with a solar panel, which could power either the fridge or the lights - but not both. The inference was that if environmentalists hadn't stopped the building of a fossil fuel power stations, the hospital could use the fridge and lights at the same time. Yet did the documentary prove that the hospital was in proximity to be wired to the grid at lower cost than the panel? You bet they didn't!
 
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buddy

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Leave angry partisan retoric at the door please.

Ha! Big laugh that is! ('specially in this forum)

And right from the jump, Poor Al loses credibility with a southern drawl versus elegant british diction. But being a Christian, I'm able to see right through this facade (divine perspicacity).

I'm cheering for Al no matter what the Brits have to say.

I'm unhinged with a closed mind.

Go Al, go!!!
 

The Sponge

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Climate scientist 'duped to deny global warming'


Ben Goldacre and David Adam
Sunday March 11, 2007
The Observer


A leading US climate scientist is considering legal action after he says he was duped into appearing in a Channel 4 documentary that claimed man-made global warming is a myth. Carl Wunsch, professor of physical oceanography at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said the film, The Great Global Warming Swindle, was 'grossly distorted' and 'as close to pure propaganda as anything since World War Two'.
He says his comments in the film were taken out of context and that he would not have agreed to take part if he had known it would argue that man-made global warming was not a serious threat.

Thanks jabber now i dont have to waste my time with this. This poster is famous for his "give it a chance and keep partisan bickering at the door" And then every single thing he post leans heavily right. Freaking phony bullshit. Im not really on a side with this stuff but what i can't figure out is what the one side who claims this has to gain? Do they all own companies in the green field? And when i see the other side fighting this hard to disprove it why would they fight like this? Then i remember there love for the oil companies and i have my answer. Im not sure why the dems would take this topic and keep drilling it at us unless its true. There are a hundred other things people would care more about. The average american won't care about this stuff until the sun is burning a new hole in their ass.
 

Jabberwocky

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The average american won't care about this stuff until the sun is burning a new hole in their ass.

You kill me sometimes Sponge. :)

I will say that I think that this is a complicated issue and that the only thing I can with certainty is that global warming is real. As to the cause, I maintain an open mind.
 
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smurphy

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If it weren't partisan, it wouldn't have "swindle" in the title. But, people should watch it ...only if they also watch "Inconvenient Truth". Problem is, I'm sure all the people that deny global warming will only watch this one - and all the people convinced that global warming is a crisis will only watch the Al Gore one.

I have a hard time seeing what the motivation for "swindling" people is when it comes to saying global warming exists. There is a lot more money in the status quo when it comes to energy than in promoting conservation. Whatever financial gains there might be in this "swindle" pale in comparisons to those aready being raked in the way things currently are.
 

samayam

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This poster is famous for his "give it a chance and keep partisan bickering at the door" And then every single thing he post leans heavily right. Freaking phony bullshit.

I didnt know I was famous, thanks for the compliment.

Honest question though, did you watch the film, or just jump in with partisan retoric and name calling? I dont see anything in your previous post regarding the film itself.

I would not consider myself right wing atall, more libertarian. The fact that I am more to the right than you are should not mean that all my posts are "freaking phony bullshit". That is a little over the top.
I usually only submit threads about global warming, which I think should not be a partisan issue atall-I think it just needs to be reasonably addressed; exorbitant government spending-which right wing Bush is king of, and other newspaper articles i think people on the forum would appreciate reading.

Jabber-Did not know about the MIT scientist. Thanks for the info. That is bullshit they would do that.
 

smurphy

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Sam - You have definitely shown more eagerness to disprove global warming than to support it. But I wouldn't say you've shown any kind of political partisanship. ...And Sponge is wrong, you are certainly not famous.:SIB
 
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The Sponge

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I didnt know I was famous, thanks for the compliment.

Honest question though, did you watch the film, or just jump in with partisan retoric and name calling? I dont see anything in your previous post regarding the film itself.

No and i didn't watch Gores movie either. You know why i think global warming is real? when we were beach bums back in the day you basically got up from the blanket around four and gave up on your tan. You go out there now and the sun is still hot at six. Im not making this up because i have notice this. Is this global warming? it has to be something. Also if you played on the Yankees they would put you in right field. Me i would be in left center.
 
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Jabberwocky

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If it weren't partisan, it wouldn't have "swindle" in the title. But, people should watch it ...only if they also watch "Inconvenient Truth". Problem is, I'm sure all the people that deny global warming will only watch this one - and all the people convinced that global warming is a crisis will only watch the Al Gore one.

I have a hard time seeing what the motivation for "swindling" people is when it comes to saying global warming exists. There is a lot more money in the status quo when it comes to energy than in promoting conservation. Whatever financial gains there might be in this "swindle" pale in comparisons to those aready being raked in the way things currently are.

Another very good post Saul. As for you IO, the only thing Bush did was triple our debt, get us into an idiotic war where many tens of thousands have died and are dying for no good reason, sell us out to the drug companies in a no bid bullshit medicaid drug bill, sell us out to the oil companies with a bullshit energy policy that calls for massive government kickbacks and tax breaks to the oil companies, make his cronies disgustingly wealthy on the backs of the middle class, and undermine the framework of the constitution by taking away the rights of citizens and concentrating power in an unprecedented way into the executive branch.

Thats what Bush did. But I digress.
 

IntenseOperator

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Thanks.


Gore testifies on global warming

March 21, 2007
BY ASSOCIATED PRESS
WASHINGTON---- Al Gore, a Democratic favorite for the presidency despite pronouncements that he's not running, spoke out on his signature issue Wednesday, warning of a ''true planetary emergency'' if Congress fails to act on global warming.

In a return he described as emotional, Gore testified before House panels that it is not too late to deal with climate change ''and we have everything we need to get started.'' He urged the Democratic-controlled Congress to adopt an immediate freeze on greenhouse gases blamed for global warming.

Gore's return to Congress marked the first time he had been in the Capitol since January 2001 when he was the defeated Democratic nominee still presiding over the Senate in his role as vice president.

The former vice president, who 20 years ago held the first hearings in Congress on global warming, appeared before a joint hearing by two House committees. Later in the day, he was to testify before a Senate committee that included the current Democratic front-runner for the nomination -- Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Several public opinion polls show Gore among the top three in the presidential race, although he has said he has no plans to seek the presidency again. In 2000, he won the popular vote but lost to George W. Bush when the Supreme Court ruled for the Republican in the disputed election.

Polls consistently place Gore, the non-candidate, third behind Clinton and Illinois Sen. Barack Obama -- ahead of John Edwards and other declared candidates -- and indicate that much of his support comes from Democrats who would otherwise back the New York senator.

Gore advised lawmakers to cut carbon dioxide and other warming gases 90 percent by 2050 to avert a crisis. Doing that, he said, will require a ban on any new coal-burning power plants -- a major source of industrial carbon dioxide -- that lack state-of-the-art controls to capture the gases.

He said he foresees a revolution in small-scale electricity producers for replacing coal, likening the development to what the Internet has done for the exchange of information.

''There is a sense of hope in this country that this United States Congress will rise to the occasion and present meaningful solutions to this crisis,'' he said. ''Our world faces a true planetary emergency. I know the phrase sounds shrill, and I know it's a challenge to the moral imagination.''

Gore gained international recognition with his Oscar-winning documentary, ''An Inconvenient Truth,'' as perhaps the leading spokesman on dealing with global warming.

A former congressman and senator from Tennessee, Gore received a friendly reception from Democrats in Congress.

''Welcome back, welcome home,'' said Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee.

But several Republicans have said they planned to pose sharp questions. Gore said the climate issue should not be a partisan or political issue.

He rejected the contention by opponents of quick action on global warming that the United States should only impose mandatory controls on greenhouse gases if China, India and other rapidly developing nations agree to do the same.

''The best way and the only way to get China and India on board is for the U.S. to demonstrate real leadership,'' Gore said. ''As the world's largest economy and the greatest superpower, we are uniquely situated to tackle a problem of this magnitude,'' he said.

Congress has nearly a dozen bills before it that call for reductions in carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases.
 

The Sponge

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Another very good post Saul. As for you IO, the only thing Bush did was triple our debt, get us into an idiotic war where many tens of thousands have died and are dying for no good reason, sell us out to the drug companies in a no bid bullshit medicaid drug bill, sell us out to the oil companies with a bullshit energy policy that calls for massive government kickbacks and tax breaks to the oil companies, make his cronies disgustingly wealthy on the backs of the middle class, and undermine the framework of the constitution by taking away the rights of citizens and concentrating power in an unprecedented way into the executive branch.

Thats what Bush did. But I digress.

As Smurph likes to say it isnt about partisianship and all about common sense.
 
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