The tipping point

DOGS THAT BARK

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When does the load become to big to bear.

The productive for decades could pack the indigent when it was 80/20--Now nearly 50/50 and with healthcare reform adding millions of illegals when do we reach tipping point.

Was reading this a bit ago--
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/11/07/state/n100503S24.DTL
Calif borrows $40M a day to pay unemployment

With one in every eight workers unemployed and empty state coffers, California is borrowing billions of dollars from the federal government to pay unemployment insurance.
The Los Angeles Times reports that the state owes $8.6 billion already, and will have to come up with a $362-million payment to Washington by the end of next September.
The continued borrowing means federal unemployment insurance taxes are going to increase, upping the annual payroll costs $21 a year per worker.
California tops the list of 32 states that have borrowed a total of $41 billion to pay claims.
The state took out its first loan from the federal government early last year, to deal with rising payment of benefits and number of claims.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Needs to be legislation passed where each state is responsible for their own convictions and not have bailed out by others. If they think 2 years unemployment is better answer than making state "industry friendly" as solution--let each be responsible for outcome.

Will be a critical time when we reach a majority that is gov dependent.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Liberalism at work



California?s Assorted Rocks and Hard Places


News came out on Thursday that the California budget deficit is actually closer to $25 billion, twice what we are told. This follows from last year?s $42 billion shortfall, which was closed by all sorts of one-time tax increases and gimmicks. Here is our general dilemma in a nutshell.

Taxes
Fact one: California has among the highest taxes in the nation, over 10% on top incomes, and about 9.5% that hits earners when they get above $47,000.
Sales taxes, depending on the county, average close to 10%. The result is that thousands (the exact number is unclear, perhaps between 2,000 and 3,500) of more affluent Californians are leaving the state each week for low- or no-tax states. Raise income taxes or sales taxes or gas taxes higher, and there will be a stampede. Note that property tax rates are not singularly that high in comparison to other states. Yet that fact is of little help since our assessments are often astronomical (given that we like to live on the coast and then, once there, ensure others cannot).
The apparent solution for now is to slap one- or two-year higher taxes on vehicle registration (sky-high), or issue fees to use state facilities, or to hike tuition at public colleges and universities (still cheap in comparison to private counterparts).

State Employees
Fact two: we have among the highest compensated state employees and teachers in the United States, with singularly powerful public employee unions. (I was governed by one for 21 years: professors at the closed-shop CSU were forced to pay union dues ? even if we were not in the union, and objected to the union?s efforts to end merit pay and accountability and to ensure near universal tenure).
Yet in many categories we need more state employees to attend to basic services. But we cannot since the state operates a sort of caste system in which we pay so much to the entrenched that we cannot afford to hire more numerous entry-level workers. (Part-time PhDs at the CSU system make Wal-Mart greeters seem privileged in comparison). This is regrettable, because we tend to reward the superannuated and simply write off the younger and idealistic. An entire cohort of young California credentialed teachers and college graduates in general are in limbo, stuck in low-paying part-time jobs for the foreseeable future that won?t pay the interest on their student loans.
The Refined Classes
Fact three: a particular class, largely coastal, professional, and liberal, believes utopia is nearly here, if we just impose more regulation, higher taxes on businesses, and more environmental legislation. They have not a clue how others pump oil or gas, grow food, and produce lumber, only that they like driving, like eating, and like nice houses, but are not particularly interested in the grubby Neanderthals who allow that to happen.
So in times of near depression voters insist on stringent global warming/carbon emission laws, and keep adding regulations that hamper rather than encourage wealth creation. (Note: the more regulations we impose, the more they are ignored and the more lawless we become. Here in rural California, it is now common to see instant restaurants on the roadside: no septic systems, food preparation trailers plopped down with canopies, picnic tables, and plastic chairs, without the scrutiny that struggling restaurants put up with. Ditto instant hardware stores out on rural intersections where everything from new rakes to gas rototillers are peddled: no sales taxes, no questions, just a quick sale and on to the next location).

Thank God For Someone or Something Else
Fact four: we count on two things to save us. One, California is a beautiful natural paradise. Yesterday I drove from the high Sierra amid a blanket of alpine snow to the 70s in Palo Alto in a little over four hours, across one of the most productive and beautiful agrarian landscapes in the world. In sum, we think there will always be some of you who will fall in love with the aesthetics that we had nothing to do with, and thus might, like the proverbial fly landing on sticky paper, arrive and become enticed enough to let us tax you for a while in our P.T. Barnum-like con.
Two, someone in our past did not think like us, and so we inherited an infrastructure, universities, airports, and roads that we continue to milk but not refurbish or invest in. We, the less talented and industrious, but the far more critical and sarcastic, drive along I-5, and swim in beautiful Sierra manmade lakes, with the apparent belief that we are glad some anonymous fools did this for us. But we in our sophistication would never mar the landscape in the way they did. Think about blowing up Hetch Hetchy back to its natural beauty perhaps ? then providing new drinking water for 85% of San Francisco, never.

The Unmentionable Topic
Fact five: we have no idea how many illegal aliens are in the state, and are left only with the paradox of being told 2-4 million reside here, but that the state also has about half of the nation?s 11-15 million illegal alien population. Add that up.
Nor are we told the greater social service costs of many second-generation Mexican-American citizens who, both at times tragically and heroically, must grow up so often in households in which their parents are here illegally, without English, and without a high school diploma. So Californians adopt an Orwellian persona: privately they assume that our near-rock bottom standing in nationwide public school math and English scores, record inmate population, out of control gangs, and assorted Medi-Cal and social service spending have something, or even a lot to do with the ripples from illegal immigration. But we also accept that even to suggest that is career suicide, given the changing political demography of the state. We prefer anecdote to statistic; one success story trumps five buried reports on failing schools, out of control public defender costs, or bankrupt emergency rooms. We have no idea how many Californians have fake IDs, or work for cash and untaxed wages, or work while on unemployment, or use public assistance money at casinos and palm readers (we call them ?psychics?) (our governor just banned the use of public assistance funds for both in anger), but I do know from bitter experience that to even wonder out loud about that will earn all sorts of hatred and invective.
So we sound utopian in our public rhetoric, but privately millions of all races and ethnic backgrounds, including millions of liberals and Hispanics, are terribly worried, and so make the necessary adjustments: they avoid public schools like many in San Jose and Fresno; they do not live in towns like Orange Cove, Mendota, Parlier, Selma (mine, which I still enjoy), Fowler, or large areas of San Jose or Los Angeles, and they are careful where they go in the evening. When we see high school students at Morgan Hill High School walk out in anger at the crime of a few students wearing the American flag on Cinco de Mayo Day, Californians know enough to politely pass over that in conversation and yet not get near that school district in fact.

Gut-check Time
So we do not have much wiggle room left, especially when we vote for more of the sources of the problem and you in the other 49 states do not like loaning us $40 million a day just for our quite generous unemployment insurance in a very high-unemployment state. There are only so many gimmicks left. Either our Governor-elect and veteran liberal Jerry Brown will have to do a Nixon to China, or the Republican House will have to let us go broke and cut off the cash. Either way, it should be an interesting ride ? perhaps a panic of 1893, Great Depression, 1970s stagflation, and 1992 state meltdown all in one surreal experience.
 

Chadman

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From the article (unsourced): The result is that thousands (the exact number is unclear, perhaps between 2,000 and 3,500) of more affluent Californians are leaving the state each week for low- or no-tax states.

Really? Does this mean leaving the state for Vegas, Mexico, or other trips of leisure, or for good? 3,500 affluent people (is that individuals, families, what?) in California are moving away and setting up shop in other states each year? 182,000 high income wage earners in California are leaving their high paying jobs to live in other states? Is that probable? Even likely?

I love that - "The exact number is unclear..." an unclear number from an unnamed source, listed as a "fact."
 

StevieD

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My guess is the tipping point was two useless wars while cutting taxes for the top two percent. Along with a decade of the rich getting richer while legally stealing from the middle class. Add to that 4 bucks a gallon for gas and I guess you could say it tipped.
 

Duff Miver

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"The exact number is unclear..." an unclear number from an unnamed source, listed as a "fact."

Typical doggie. Bullshit numbers made up by anonymous people. "Facts"? doggie hates facts, doggie runs away from facts. doggie can't stand facts.

Here's doggie, gathering "facts" -

dog-poop-scoop.jpg
 
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THE KOD

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.........................

George W cleaning up his own shit.

thats a classic:142smilie
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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Lets see we have the same resident liberals trying to defend CA spending/debt

Can certainly understand your identifying with Ca-but the consequences are a bummer--





Ya all carry on--
- more debt-bigger gov-socialism
Ace%20Dance.gif
 

StevieD

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Typical doggie. Bullshit numbers made up by anonymous people. "Facts"? doggie hates facts, doggie runs away from facts. doggie can't stand facts.

Here's doggie, gathering "facts" -

dog-poop-scoop.jpg

Funny because it's true!:142smilie :142smilie :142smilie
 

Lumi

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Typical doggie. Bullshit numbers made up by anonymous people. "Facts"? doggie hates facts, doggie runs away from facts. doggie can't stand facts.

Here's doggie, gathering "facts" -

dog-poop-scoop.jpg

You posted a picture of my highly intelligent dog without my permission ! :142smilie :toast:
 

THE KOD

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Latino kids now majority in state's public schools

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Make our kids learn spanish . wtf

If California kicked out all the illigals and their kids how much would this drop ?

probably down to 35%


its amazing how this has happened
 
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Lumi

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You don't have to tell me twice !

Hey KOD,

take a look at the third and fourth line of your post.

You need to post links so MJ doesn't get a boot in the ass. Uhhhh, another boot.

I have something really cool I want to share with you dude. :toast:
 

THE KOD

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thanks Illum

I fixed that 3 and 4 lines


what are you up to now ?

I am watching Jesse Ventura ex gov conspiracy theorys show.

I like this guy

all his shit is now tapped by the gov

you and him got alot in common
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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http://blogs.forbes.com/joelkotkin/...ts-suicide-texas-asks-can-i-lend-you-a-knife/

California Suggests Suicide; Texas Asks: Can I Lend You a Knife?

In the future, historians may likely mark the 2010 midterm elections as the end of the California era and the beginning of the Texas one. In one stunning stroke, amid a national conservative tide, California voters essentially ratified a political and regulatory regime that has left much of the state unemployed and many others looking for the exits.

California has drifted far away from the place that John Gunther described in 1946 as ?the most spectacular and most diversified American state ? so ripe, golden.? Instead of a role model, California has become a cautionary tale of mismanagement of what by all rights should be the country?s most prosperous big state. Its poverty rate is at least two points above the national average; its unemployment rate nearly three points above the national average. On Friday Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger was forced yet again to call an emergency session in order to deal with the state?s enormous budget problems.
This state of crisis is likely to become the norm for the Golden State. In contrast to other hard-hit states like Pennsylvania, Ohio and Nevada, which all opted for pro-business, fiscally responsible candidates, California voters decisively handed virtually total power to a motley coalition of Democratic-machine politicians, public employee unions, green activists and rent-seeking special interests.
In the new year, the once and again Gov. Jerry Brown, who has some conservative fiscal instincts, will be hard-pressed to convince Democratic legislators who get much of their funding from public-sector unions to trim spending. Perhaps more troubling, Brown?s own extremism on climate change policy?backed by rent-seeking Silicon Valley investors with big bets on renewable fuels?virtually assures a further tightening of a regulatory regime that will slow an economic recovery in every industry from manufacturing and agriculture to home-building.

Texas? trajectory, however, looks quite the opposite. California was recently ranked by Chief Executive magazine as having the worst business climate in the nation, while Texas? was considered the best. Both Democrats and Republicans in the Lone State State generally embrace the gospel of economic growth and limited public sector expenditure. The defeated Democratic candidate for governor, the brainy former Houston Mayor Bill White, enjoyed robust business support and was widely considered more competent than the easily re-elected incumbent Rick Perry, who sometimes sounds more like a neo-Confederate crank than a serious leader.
To be sure, Texas has its problems: a growing budget deficit, the need to expand infrastructure to service its rapid population growth and the presence of a large contingent of undereducated and uninsured poor people. But even conceding these problems, the growing chasm between the two megastates is evident in the economic and demographic numbers. Over the past decade nearly 1.5 million more people left California than stayed; only New York State lost more. In contrast, Texas gained over 800,000 new migrants. In California, foreign immigration?the one bright spot in its demography?has slowed, while that to Texas has increased markedly over the decade.
A vast difference in economic performance is driving the demographic shifts. Since 1998, California?s economy has not produced a single new net job, notes economist John Husing. Public employment has swelled, but private jobs have declined.

Critically, as Texas grew its middle-income jobs by 16%, one of the highest rates in the nation, California, at 2.1% growth, ranked near the bottom. In the year ending September, Texas accounted for roughly half of all the new jobs created in the country. https://webmail.forbes.com/owa/redi...2585867/report-shows-texas-a-main-engine.html
Even more revealing is California?s diminishing preeminence in high-tech and science-based (or STEM?Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) jobs. Over the past decade California?s supposed bulwark grew a mere 2%?less than half the national rate. In contrast, Texas? tech-related employment surged 14%. Since 2002 the Lone Star state added 80,000 STEM jobs; California, a mere 17,000.
Of course, California still possesses the nation?s largest concentrations of tech (Silicon Valley), entertainment (Hollywood) and trade (Port of Los Angeles-Long Beach). But these are all now declining. Silicon Valley?s Google era has produced lots of opportunities for investors and software mavens concentrated in affluent areas around Palo Alto, but virtually no new net jobs overall. Empty buildings and abandoned factories dot the Valley?s onetime industrial heartland around San Jose. Many of the Valley?s tech companies are expanding outside the state, largely to more business-friendly and affordable places like Salt Lake City, the Research Triangle region of North Carolina and Austin.
Hollywood too is shifting frames, with more and more film production going to Michigan, New Mexico, New York and other states. In 2002, 82% of all film production took place in California?now it?s down to roughly 30%. And plans by Los Angeles County, the epicenter of the film industry, to double permit fees for film, television and commercial productions certainly won?t help.
International trade, the third linchpin of the California economy, is also under assault. Tough environmental regulations and the anticipated widening in 2014 of the Panama Canal are emboldening competitors, particularly across the entire southern tier of the countryhttps://webmail.forbes.com/owa/redi...on/2010-02-15-ports-expand-panama-canal_N.htm, most notably in Houston. Mobile, Ala., Charleston, S.C., and Savannah, Ga., also have big plans to lure high-paid blue collar jobs away from California?s ports.
Most worrisome of all, these telltale signs palpable economic decline seem to escape most of the state?s top leaders. The newly minted Lieutenant Governor, San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, insists ?there?s nothing wrong with California? and claims other states ?would love to have the problems of California.?
But it?s not only the flaky Newsom who is out of sync with reality. Jerry Brown, a far savvier politician, maintains ?green jobs,? up to 500,000 of them, will turn the state around. Theoretically, these jobs might make up for losses created by ever stronger controls on traditional productive businesses like agriculture, warehousing and manufacturing. But its highly unlikely.
Construction will be particularly hard hit, since Brown also aims to force Californians, four-fifths of whom prefer single-family houses, into dense urban apartment districts. Over time, this approach will send home prices soaring and drive even more middle-class Californians to the exits.
Ultimately the ?green jobs? strategy, effective as a campaign plank, represents a cruel delusion. Given the likely direction of the new GOP-dominated House of Representatives in Washington, massive federal subsidies for the solar and wind industries, as well as such boondoggles as high-speed rail, are likely to be scaled back significantly. Without subsidies, federal loans or draconian national regulations, many green-related ventures will cut as oppose to add jobs, as is already beginning to occur. The survivors, increasingly forced to compete on a market basis, will likely move to China, Arizona or even Texas, already the nation?s leader in wind energy production.
Tom Hayden, a ?60s radical turned environmental zealot, admits that given the current national climate the only way California can maintain Brown?s ?green vision? will be to impose ?some combination of rate heights and tax revenues.? Such an approach may help bail out green investors, but seems likely to drive even more businesses out of the state.
California?s decline is particularly tragic, as it is unnecessary and largely unforced. The state still possesses the basic assets?energy, fertile land, remarkable entrepreneurial talent?to restore its luster. But given its current political trajectory, you can count on Texans, and others, to keep picking up both the state?s jobs and skilled workers. If California wishes to commit economic suicide, Texas and other competitors will gladly lend them a knife.
 

Chadman

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I cannot understand how this kind of thing continues to have common sense or legal value. At some point, we have to have some kind of perspective on what our country is supposed to be all about. I'm sorry, but I don't consider illegal immigrants to have equal value or rights to American citizens, when it comes to legal issues, or American benefits. While unpleasant to make the children suffer in many ways, you simply have to draw lines somewhere for the good of the country and for legal American citizens. Otherwise, BEING a legal American citizen really doesn't - and won't - matter.

Another thing - we seem to have a pretty good idea on who/where millions of illegal immigrants are - to the point of enacting laws giving them benefits and lower education rates of American citizens from other American states. Seems we could start SOMEWHERE holding these people accountable and dealing with this issue.

This is another area where I think liberals are quite simply wrong on an issue.
 

StevieD

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I cannot understand how this kind of thing continues to have common sense or legal value. At some point, we have to have some kind of perspective on what our country is supposed to be all about. I'm sorry, but I don't consider illegal immigrants to have equal value or rights to American citizens, when it comes to legal issues, or American benefits. While unpleasant to make the children suffer in many ways, you simply have to draw lines somewhere for the good of the country and for legal American citizens. Otherwise, BEING a legal American citizen really doesn't - and won't - matter.

Another thing - we seem to have a pretty good idea on who/where millions of illegal immigrants are - to the point of enacting laws giving them benefits and lower education rates of American citizens from other American states. Seems we could start SOMEWHERE holding these people accountable and dealing with this issue.

This is another area where I think liberals are quite simply wrong on an issue.

I agree. I do not see the sense in this. But I argue that it is not a liberal issue. Both sides are guilty as far as Illegal's are concerned.
 
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