This makes me sick.

[KotysDad]

I am sure alot of you remember the story back in 1993 of a 2-year old boy in England who was led away from his mother in a shopping center by two 10-year old boys and later tortured and killed. Well, these two boys are about to turn 18 and are being released under new identities. I read this in a newspaper today.....

"...The boys dragged and led the toddler two miles through town to a railway line, where they hit him with bricks and metal bars, poured paint in his eyes and finally placed him on the tracks where a train cut him in half.

Emotions reached fever pitch during the 16-day trial as crowds pelted a prison van driving the boys to court.

In handing down the sentence, the trial judge described their crime as an act of "unparalleled evil and barbarity" and recommended the boys serve a minimum of eight years. The sentence was later increased to 15 years by former home secretary Michael Howard, but in October a judge restored the original sentence, saying it would not be beneficial for the boys to be in the 'corrosive atmosphere of an adult prison.'...."

Well, boo-hoo for the boys if they were to spend time in an adult prison. It wasnt very beneficial to the innocent, all-trusting little boy who was lured away and tortured like an animal.

The legal system makes me sick when the criminals are more protected than the innocent. Assuming you believe they should be released (which I dont), they should be released just as they are and should live the rest of their lives always looking over their shoulder.

 

[Stanley]

There was a documentary about the possible release of those two on British television earlier this week. For legal reasons, they couldn't name the institution where they were staying, but they did everything they could to infer where it was without naming it. They also disclosed that a group - 'Justice for Jamie' or something like that - had circulated up-to-date pictures of the pair on the internet. Believe me, they will be looking over the shoulder when they are released. But also so will anyone looking like them

BTW, they ARE being released

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1402000/1402527.stm

[This message has been edited by Stanley (edited 06-22-2001).]

 

[Bonovox]

I heard about this story last week when they were discussing the possibility of releasing the boys. The British gov't is spending a ton of money to release the boys with new identities so they are safe - and it is illegal to even take a picture of what they look like now.

KD, I understand that the outrage that a lot of people have, but these boys were only ten. What a ten year old does and what an adult does are completely different. And while it's true that the 2 year old will never be alive again, you have to consider what the goal of prison is. Is it to punish or to rehabilitate. If it's to punish, then to punish a ten year old to a life sentence is incredibly extreme. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's incredibly extreme. To send an 18 year old to an adult prison to serve a sentence he committed at 10 is still fairly extreme.

If the goal is rehabilitation, then we have to trust the system and the people making the decision that they believe the boys are changed.

I understand the grief for the family of the little boy murdered, but how far do you carry out the sentence. A 10 year old sentenced to 15 years, 7 of which will be in an adult prison, is incrediblty extreme.

As for their release, I would have to disagree that the gov't shouldn't protect them. If the system deems that the boys have served the time and paid their dues to society, then they should be free. However, the public "mob" sentiment is trying to create vigilante justice. This can't be accepted. If the courts and the system have deemed that boys have fulfilled their debt to society, then it should not be up to the public to determine if the boys have. That's why countries have court systems in the first place.

If a criminal commits a crime, he should be punished. Once the criminal pays his debt to society he should be able to assimilate into the society. While there will always be some type of stigma attached, one should not be fearful of his life because the public is not satisfied with the court's decision.

The world cannot live with the mob mentality

 

[JSMOOTH]

A 10 year old sentenced to 15 years, 7 of which will be in an adult prison, is incrediblty extreme.

Hitting a 2 year old with bricks and pipes, pouring paint in his eyes, and letting a train slice him in half is EXTREME
These 2 punks should rot!

 

[Phanatic]

Those two should be sought out and killed. Period. End of report. Save the bleeding heart rehab crap !

 

[KotysDad]

When it comes to issues like this, I am very very right winged, and extremely intolerable. Its just the way I am and always will be when it comes to the punishment fitting the crime.

In my eyes, these boys werent punished enough for what they did. I also believe that at 10 years old they were fully aware of what they were doing. In fact, if I remember the story correctly, they planned the crime out in advance.

I hate to sound cold hearted, but I truly hope these boys are hunted down and killed in the same fashion they once killed.

With stories like this, and the most recent one where a mother drowned her 5 children in a bath tub a few days ago down in Austin Tex, it makes me want to never read a newspaper outside of the sports and comics.

 

[rrc]

Bono...not going to get into my feelings on this issue, but I feel strongly that if you had children of your own, like a lot of us do,you may feel differently.

 

[Bonovox]

And you're right, I don't ahve kids and I can't argue against emotions. But at the same time, the purpose of the court system is to eliminate emotion from the argument. The penal system for any Western country is based on justice and not on revenge. One can't allow emotions to interfere in the evaluation of justive. And while the little boy and his family may not find justice, the court, eliminating emotions, has.

I am a firm believer in the death penalty. But not for minors.

In any event, whether or not the boys should be released, society cannot tolerate the mob mentality of getting back at the boys.

Vigalante justice cannot be tolerated for any crime or for any reason.

 

[Palmetto Pimp]

I have a 2 year old at home and am highly disturbed reading this. I hope those 2 wastes of life die a painful death.
SOON

 

[scrubbo]

The scarey part is that these boys are probably still evil and will continue to be a risk to society. When they end up back in jail the prisoners will use some behind bars justice on their asses.

 

[34399]

According to the law, the boys should not die, because of there ages when they did it. For those of you who might not agree, then what should the law be in your opinion?? So should we make it so no matter what age you are, if you kill someone else, you should die automatically???? Take for instance that kid who body slammed and other wrestling moves on his baby sister in the house and killed her, he is not getting the death penalty, but how come no one is arguing about that??? Shouldn't we want him to die if we also want those two european kids who killed the kid with bricks and let him be run over at the train tracks die to??
If not, should the death penalty be used on killer kids depending on HOW they killed there victim?? If so, where do you draw the line to determine what is a vicious killing and what is a not so vicious killing??? Isn't both murder??? Should we have different degrees of murder like 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th degree murders applied to kids???? If we do, how will the government figure it out? Are they going to get a panel of psychologist and they sit in a group and talk about, "Oh this kid killed this other kid with a punch, that's not that bad, lets give him 5th degree murder and jail time of 12 years, oh this next kid stabbed another kid 10 times, lets make that 3rd degree murder and put him in jail for life, and this 3rd kid torchered this kid with bricks and put him on a train track to get run over, that's 1st degree, lets give him the death penalty."

Should we make it this way???

 

[KotysDad]

34...thats why I like being out there on the right on this issue. No exceptions. You kill (and know what you are doing at the time) and you die for it. If a child is old enough to know better, and in this case and the wrestling case, they all knew better...they should die. Maybe two 4-year olds screwing around with a gun because their parent wasnt smart enough to lock it up would be an exception because I dont think a 4-year old realizes the permanence of death. But in these other cases, they did. If not death, then I would settle for a lifetime in jail...and by lifetime I mean life time, not 20 years like the "system" dictates.

No one that kills knowingly and willingly deserves a 2nd chance....no one!!

Also, if you want to debate the age at which kids know better, well I am sure a psychologist could determine that on a case by case basis. I dont know of many children in the range of 7-10 that could trick a professional into believing he didnt know what he was doing when in fact he did.

[This message has been edited by KotysDad (edited 06-23-2001).]

 

[Skinar]

It is VERY likely that these two young men will commit a violent crime within two years and murder is at the top of that list of possibilities. Since their previous crimes were committed as juveniles, their previous record is inadmissable in future proceedings.

There a LOT of young kids in the US committing carjackings at gunpoint because they KNOW they are juveniles and won't stand trial as adults. Same for selling dope. Kids mature more quickly than in days past, it's evolution and mass communication. We need to change the laws accordingly.

 

[Neemer]

No offense, but I don't even like reading stuff like this. I realize that I shouldn't walk through life with a blindfold on, but reading this kind of stuff just puts me in a bad mood, and I don't come to Jack's place to be put in a chitty mood all day. Koty, I'm certain your intentions were good, but in the future I wish you and others would refrain fromm putting this stuff up. Everyone has the freedom to go to any news service and read about things like this till their heart's content. I think most will agree that we come here mainly to share information and if we're lucky, a few laughs along the way.

 

[Senor Capper]

Koty.....
nothing wrong with venting
We think alike on this issue and if you didn't post this topic I would have.
This is a "general discussion" forum
those who don't want to read this type of topic shouldn't click on it then.
It's part of life (unfortunately)

~~~Lanny

Now off to the America and Grand Funk Railroad Concert
::::showing my age::::

 

[KotysDad]

Originally posted by Neemer:
No offense, but I don't even like reading stuff like this. I realize that I shouldn't walk through life with a blindfold on, but reading this kind of stuff just puts me in a bad mood, and I don't come to Jack's place to be put in a chitty mood all day. Koty, I'm certain your intentions were good, but in the future I wish you and others would refrain fromm putting this stuff up. Everyone has the freedom to go to any news service and read about things like this till their heart's content. I think most will agree that we come here mainly to share information and if we're lucky, a few laughs along the way.

Neemer,

No offense, but dont read it if you dont like it. No one holding a gun to your head forcing you to read the posts.

 

[Gatorbait]

Take a few days off and see you are still on a roll KD....keep up the good posts...you'll go far pal.

 

[KotysDad]

Originally posted by Gatorbait:
Take a few days off and see you are still on a roll KD....keep up the good posts...you'll go far pal.

Thanks Gatorbrain, I see your safe driving speed (80) is still in no danger of being passed by your IQ.

 

[Kevin]

I see the fella thinking with this vent. The guy has kids and cares. Venting is ok. This is the general discussoin forum afterall. What the kids did was wrong. Regardless of whether we, a judge, or vigilantes judge him theres only one judgement that matters and thats the one from the fella upstairs. They'll get theres. Who gives a rip about those punkasses, god bless the 2 yr old child. That is one of the sickest things Ive ever heard and it pains me. Kids are so precious. My prayers are with the parents and 2 yr old child. Its gonna take them all some real perseverence not to whack the kids that are getting released.