TO those who said officials called fair game....

[ticali24]

Pt1gard, Bombs, MrChristo, OnaJ, ezpickin

You all said or implied that the officials called a good game or made the right calls. Basically you all said they called it both ways. I am convinced the 5 of you have little knowledge of the game of basketball based on your statements last night. Funny thing is Pt1gard mentions repeatedly how he is a coach. Please enlighten me on these calls (non-calls).

If you have the tape, watch the Detroit guards (Billups, Hunter, Hamilton), they do a hook with their left hand right before they drive to the basket. That is totally illegal! Another example, Campbell grabbing Shaq before the ball is thrown inside and then hammering his arm when he puts it up. Another example, Wallace using the same maneuver on Shaq. I think they were doing it on purpose to send Shaq to the line because he had deep position down low (he'll probably miss the fts anyways).

Kobe tried to do the hook move and they blatantly grabbed his arm. George and Payton started grabbing on the other end and they were called for fouls. Well Shaq had five fouls last night and was in deep foul trouble.

Still not convinced? How about the 1st quarter non call on Malone. He was thrown to the ground. The Malone foul was not a foul that could've gone either way. He was pushed from behind going up for a layup and ate the floor hard.

I got another one for you!!! Wallace jumps on Shaq's back to knock away the entry pass....no call. Next possession, Shaq keeps his arm out to prevent Wallace from jumping on his back, seeing as how the refs ain't calling that $hit...offensive foul on Shaq. Abhorrent.

Proof's in the pudding...Detroit is in the bonus in EVERY quarter. At one point last night, the fouls were like 18 to 6. Detroit is killing Lakers at the line.

Refs suck...always have and always will, and in this series, the Lakers are getting the short end of the stick. So what...the Lakers haven't earned anything with their play. If they play well, they will win. If they sit on their heels and let Detroit take the game to them like they have, they deserve every bad call they get. Nobody here can tell me the Lakers are not getting the short end of the stick in terms of officiating. That is why I am convinced the 5 of you know very little about basketball or maybe you are Detroit fans or Laker haters. I am calling it as I see it.

 

[pt1gard]

lemme ask you this?

lemme ask you this?

i find you hilarious and entertaining and on par with the mind of a nine-year-old who might take your ball and go home on a playground ... Now have you ever played competitively or coached or refereed?

when we lost the 1987 state final at the buzzer and came back from 17 down late in 3rd, I told my team after the game, I have never been prouder and there were no excuses, you played your asses off--i love you all to death ... i.e. we took it like men

Ive been the luckiest guy on earth with my relationships with my players, my teams have won 3 state titles, I have reffed over 500 games and coached over 1000, and played in more than that ...


ez, bombs, mr christo and onaj have all impressed me with their insight and non radical stances in all their posts--you are amazingly one sided and irrational ... I dont know who you are convincing other than yourself into a deeper and deeper morass of non-reality and borderline schizophrenia ...

I am as objective as anyone I know (self indulgent as that sounds), do I want Lakers to lose, YES ... do I get skewed from the reality of whats going on? NO ... This is a friggin NBA Final, Im not invested or playing nor do I know any participant ...

You sound like some parent whose kid isnt getting sufficient PT in junior leagues

take a deep breath and realize and entertain the notion others might have a legitimate POV ...

Im really trying to help you here my friend, not defend myself or anyone else

and by god, you are making me almost root for the Lakers so you dont jump off the Hollywood letters

take care
gregg

(i debated even replying to this but what the hey )

 

[maverick2112]

Everyone who has followed this forum at all knows this guy is a joke.........everyone he mentioned knows far more about hoops than this guy..............


TICALI24.......DO YOU REALIZE YOU ARE QUESTIONING CALLS IN A GAME YOUR TEAM LOST BY 20 POINTS WHILE NOT EVEN SCORING 70.........AND THATS WITH DETROIT TAKING IT EASY ON THE LAKERS IN THE 4TH QUARTER.......HOW SILLY YOU ARE

 

[maverick2112]

If they play well, they will win.

Maybe since you know so much.........you can let us know when the Lakers can turn on the switch to start playing well..........The series is almost half way over

 

[ticali24]

Lakers are not my team, Clippers are, but I am rooting for Lakers and I also have 2unit bet on them to win series -240. That said, my point was these 5 posters said the game was called fair. The officials made the right calls. These guys, including Pt1gard, made these statements. I called them out on it. What i said in my post happened in the game. That is why I am still not convinced they know the game of hoops. I am not talking about offense, defense, rebounding, talent or hustling. I am talking about officiating and how the Lakers are clearly getting the short end of the stick. I am not saying free throws or fouls should be even (cuz Detroit was more agressive) but no way should there be this big of a difference in fouls called. I clearly pointed out what happened in the game. They said something wrong and I am calling them out.

I see that pt1gard talked about his coaching again and declined to comment on the reason for the post.

maverick2112 no question the Lakers deserved the loss. They played horrible and Pistons played great. My point is the Lakers do not deserve to be on the short end of the stick in terms of officiating. Could the outcome have changed? Maybe but prob. not.

 

[pt1gard]

the reason for your post was to vent

the reason for your post was to vent

and we discussed this yest in other thread ... Deet was screwed even more than Lakers from what I saw--keep watching tape you'll be coaching soon

 

[skillrules]

ticali24, Let me give you some advice. You are wasting your time and energy with this; you arent going to change anyone's mind. I dont believe anyone who has answered you would claim to be impartial, they want the Lakers to lose and have been open about it. Do I think the refs missed a ton of calls on Detroit in the first 3Qs, hell yes. They were attrocious. But this is a gambling forum and whining doesnt work.

Check out this thread:
Look here

Handicappers do not study the refs for trends closely enough. And it can be quite difficult when you try. But sometimes, like a Marshall home football game, you know the refs will go out of their way. If you bet against them it sucks, but when you bet with them you still see the horseshit calls or non calls, but they give you a better chance to cover which makes you smile.

 

[ezpickin]

LOL...this is too funny....one more "unbiased" observer rushes in to defend tic and the poor abused Lakers...wait...what is that moniker? hmmmm...another poster from LA...but there is not way he can be unbiased....do I have big money on pistons for series? yes...did I also bet them in g1-3? yes...do I believe they are the better team? yes...do I believe lakers would actually have lost to the Pacers as well? yes...all this set aside, you guys from LA just crack me up with your "whoa is the Lakers...they never catch a break"...let me clue you little hollywood boys in on a little secret....the refs could foul out Shaq EVERY game if they were so inclined....and in fact could do it legitimately...almost without exception, when he gets the ball and takes it to the basket, he commits what could be called an offensive foul...ok with that said, I will now wait for a 3rd person who happens to reside in LA come in here and tell me how foolish and biased I am!

 

[skillrules]

Hey genius, can you read? I have money on Detroit to win series, I like the way the games are being reffed. Go Detroit.

EZpickin, did you bet on the Spurs-Lakers series? Who did you think was the better team in that one?

 

[ezpickin]

I did bet on that series and felt pretty confident spurs would win...actually lost 3 dimes in fact...as for who I thought was better, I guess by virtue of who I bet on would have to say the spurs...that said, my series wagers are as much betting against LA as for SA and Det..not that I have a hard-on against the Lakers...I just have felt that LA is VERY overrated...yes they have 2 of the best 5 players in the league...but thats IT...a terrible supporting cast that is overaged...malone and payton are not even a reasonable facsimile of their old selfs...and their BEST player off the bench (Fisher) is hurt...and everything that has been building up regarding Kobe. Shag, Payton and all the "crap" that has been a part of the Lakers story is finally taking it's toll...dont get me wrong....Lakers are by no means out of this thing...but Vegas set the hook with the series wager and there are a LOT of fish out there now with very sore mouths...one more note - again this is simply one man's opinion but everyone cries about the lakers injuries...had Casells not gotten hurt we would be watching the Wolves and not the lakers...

 

[skillrules]

Certainly agree with most of your assessment in last post. I was incredulous to the series number being +300 after game 2, hence my taking Detroit for the series. Like I said in other thread, officiating was only part of it, along with Malone's injury and Payton being dusted as well as the overall weak bench play and home court being taken.

My main point to the originator is that threads like this rarely please anyone. I respect Pt1gard's opinion on it, he is one of the best contributors to MJs.

One other thing, Ive had Tivo/Satellite for several years and Ill tell you it hurts my enjoyment of the game, to know absolutely how many calls the refs get wrong per game. Im not talking about the Lakers, all games and all teams. The amount of times they miss an out of bounds call is outrageous. Obviously I can go back frame by frame so I have an advantage, but still.

 

[MrChristo]

(i debated even replying to this but what the hey )

Me too, but since everyone else has!

Where to start. Firstly, no I haven't got a tape of the game, but I sure wish I did now. And, because I haven't got a tape, some of the times/actions may be a little off here.....

Firstly the 'hooking'. Illegal? Yes. Does it happen every single game of every single NBA season? Afraid so.....Not that I'm totally with your logic here, because nearly every time I can recall Billups and especially Rip driving inside they were a clear step ahead of their LA defender.
Payton clearly grabs both Hamilton and Billups running through screens because there is no way the old guy can keep up.

The lay-up the Malone 'ate the floor'?....He took it straight at Rasheed and then simply couldn't jump up to shoot the ball!!! Rasheed had arms straight up and poor old Junkmail (ha..thanks pt1gard for that one ) still doesn't realise he has no elevation. You can't jump INTO someone and expect to get a foul called, whether you crash to the floor or not!!

You also 'forget' to mention a foul called on Campbell in the 3rd (?) when he hooked his arm back across Shaqs throat going for a rebound....Was the foul there? Absolutely...BUT you gunna tell me how/why he was almost over the baseline at the time????
Shaq pushes (with hands..not body) on virtually EVERY rebound, and as others have rightly pointed out could just about be called on every attempt!

In another (same old, boring, crap riddled) post you said that the foul count was lop-sided "even with LA having the dominant big man"...or something to that effect.
Is this the same "dominant bigman" who can't get a possession because Kobe is too busy playing 1-2, 1-3, trying to be the 'hero' out in his own little world on the perimeter??....Or is it the dominant bigman who seems totally content to take 4, 5, 6 foot hook shots instead of trying to get to the hoop?

Do I dislike the Lakers? Yes. Why? Because Kobe (as undeniably talented as he is) manipulates games to make himself the big-guy down the stretch....I don't like that from a betting point of view. (And a good reason to never back LA except in exceptional cases )
Another reason?...Most of the LA fans I personally know are largely ignorant of the game itself, and have simply jumped on the winning band-wagon over the years.
Sorry to generalise, but most posts I see about the Lakers on internet boards do nothing to change my perception.

I have never coached at any decent level, I'm only 27 so, no, I don't really know a lot of stuff that happened before the 90's in the NBA. But I have played the game since I was 5, and have been doing some fairly serious refereeing over the past year or 2. (dodgy knee stops me playing.)

LOL at skillrules for a couple of reasons...not least being the irony of his username (Yes mate, skill rules, not the officiating!).
2) You have basically inferred that some ref's have distinct, transparent and 'predictable' bias towards certain teams!! :shrug: ...Then in the same sentence you have implied that every Marshall home game is corrupt! :thinking:
Are ref's perfect? Hell no. Do they have terrible games (much like players!)? Absolutely. Do they go out with the object of distinctly favouring one team? The idea is laughable, no matter what you may think.

Refs suck

Poor diddums. Sounds like someone stole your wowwypop.


EDIT: Oh, and one more thing, just so I finish it here and not in one of the 14 other threads you've created on the same topic.....
Before you have the urge to start up no. 15........
ENOUGH ALREADY!! WE GET YOUR FVCKING POINT!! NOW GIVE IT A REST!!!!

 

[MrChristo]

[something weird happened here, and it made two posts :shrug:]

This is primarily a betting forum afterall. Yes, we have the odd vent thread, and yes, I for one enjoy a good, high quality discussion on the game....But if your sole motivation seems to be the "Lakers are getting screwed" line, then surely there are plenty of Laker forums out there for you to jump on. At least then you'll be happy with the responce you get, no matter how un-eduacated they are....Hell, you think we are anyway

 

[Bombs]

I simply can't believe that a Laker fan would ever complain about officiating after the 2002 Western Conference Finals. That was the most unbelievable joke I have ever seen, and even some of the most ardent Laker fans I know have said they were handed that title.

Bottom line, if you can't stand in front of your defender, a lot of calls are going to be made on you. There are times when the Piston offensive players, in a 1 on 1 setup, get their body past the Laker defensive player BEFORE THEY HAVE EVEN MOVED. The fouls are happening for a reason, if you can't see that, then no one can help you.