toney-holifield weigh in....i`m shocked

[gardenweasel]

well,i`m shocked....if fightnews is correct,they had the weigh in for holi-toney tonight and toney weighed in at 217!!!!!....that`s ridiculous,imo......and he`ll probably be heavier by fight time....can you say"soft in the breadbasket"....holi needs to go to that body...

holifield weighed in at 219!....at 41,holifield has fought around the same weight for 10 years.....

2 pounds difference....toney must look like a whale..and lets not forget that while holifield will turn 41 in several weeks,toney is 35 himself......toney fought jirov at 190.....27 pounds heavier for this bout?.....good lord....and the holi odds are dropping....

i took toney at +170 when it first hit the boards....now,i`m gonna scour the sportsbooks to see what they are offering on holifield....i`m thinking about how to handle this turn of events...

i think 217 is way to heavy for toney to go 12 rounds effectively and sharply...unless holi`s half dead,and he may be,i think toney`s got a problem...

you can talk all you want,and toney does,but,217 on that frame is alot...i mean alot of weight....i think toney did himself a serious disservice by not being in much better shape than this....remember,roy jones fought ruiz at 193!!!!

i understand toney`s slick...i know that...i had him big vs jirov....but he`s not slick like chris byrd....he stands in front of his man..and he`s not a lefty..and not as tall as byrd.....carrying this kind of weight,he`ll be planted on the ropes or in a corner after 4 or 5 rounds.......190 for jirov.....217 for holifield...try hanging 27 pounds around your neck and doing cardio....you`ll understand what i`m talking about...training and toney have always been like oil and water...but this is ridiculous for a fight of this magnitude...

if this report is correct,and toney weighs almost as much as holifield,he`ll have to be almost dead by the later rounds....

i`m not telling anyone to go out and bet the farm on holifield....i need to get a handle on this info...i still have decent money on toney at +170 gathering dust....i need to talk to some folks....before i do anything....if i do anything....


i have to think about this....confirm it from another source...

 

[gardenweasel]

if only.....

if only.....

if only this old m.f.`er holifield wasn`t 41 and his skills and stamina and work rate hadn`t eroded to a large degree....

if only he was just a half step slower instead of a full step slower.....

if only he had fought more than one good fight in his last 5.....

if only "yada yada yada".............................sh-t.......looks like i`m gonna have a real problem dropping some money on old evander....

i will say that i hope he k.o.`s this fat,lazy glutton who seems to have failed to take the biggest opportunity of his life seriously....

i`ll probably buy back my +170 on toney and take evander at -130 and be happy making pocket change...still waiting to hear from someone on this....but,i don`t like wagering on 2 negatives......

how can you handicap this mess?....toney,you are pathetic....

 

[pt1gard]

gl GW

gl GW

anyone any word on angelo dundee's take on this fight ...

I still have evander's fight when he got robbed in OLYMPICS and show it to my players sometimes to let them see how a man can handle getting screwed in life with dignity ...

I agree EH has lost a step and his hearing aid, but i dont follow boxing like i used to so cant cap Toney at all ...


take care
gregg

 

[gardenweasel]

pt1

pt1

no...but i`ll dig it up before fight time...



there are so many friggin` fights this weekend,it`s almost overkill....

a guy i`ve been tracking is cruz carbajal....has an absolutely lousy record as far as champions go..constantly fought in the other guy`s hometown early in his career....he was thrown in vs top competition early and just now appears to be finding himself later in his career......he`s fighting gerardo espinosa who is 25-4 w/23 k.o.`s.....this guy is about 3 inches taller and is supposedly a puncher.....his record would confirm that...and we`d be working with a 3" height disadvantage...

looking at cruz carbajal -150 to k.o. espinosa.....carbajal is one of those late bloomers..problems early in his career(ala freddy pendleton)...but from what i hear,he`s a legit world class fighter now....i`ve heard he was scheduled with rafael marquez and marquez wasn`t real anxious to get in with him....now he`s a champ and he`s on a roll....and he can punch....and punches alot...has tremendous heart and stamina

espinosa has fought some fights at super bantamweight,and may be a little bigger guy...but he`s been stopped in 3 of his 4 losses and was stopped in his next to last fight last fight by jorge lacierva(a good fighter but not the puncher carbajal is)..and look at epinosa`s record....i think he had numerous soft touches early in his career(unless they just didn`t have records from mexico).....then look at who carbajal has faced.......so many quality fighters....many before he was really ready..most in the other guy`s hometown....i`d be surprised if somebody doesn`t go.....i expect and hope it`s espinosa.......espinosa isn`t a whippet with 23 k.o.`s in 25 wins ,so it should be a punch-out......hopefully under 8....i`m looking lightly at at under 8 ..but carbajal just wears guy`s down.....might take him longer than 8....carbajal by k.o. is my call....nobody`s running here..they`ll be in one another`s face....

carbajal`s record probably concerns many....understandably so....check around the net for more info....don`t go by me......carbajal is rated the #5 or 6 welter by boxing news behind solid guys like marquez,austin and the thai sahaprom....my mexican friend says carbajal is for real....vicious body puncher

somebody`s gonna go here....hopefully it`s espinosa and early.....

make your own decisions...i`ll get back with more if i get more info.....g.l.

 

[pt1gard]

great info, GW

great info, GW

and thanx for any help on DUNDEE

TAKE CARE
gregg

 

[THE KOD]

From what I read Toney came in at 217 and is really carrying it around the gut.

My way of thinking is that this is Toneys last fight and he really is just going to show up for the payday.

We all know that Holyfield is just not the fighter he was and I see this going the distance with alot of dancing around. Neither one of these guys has the power to put the other away.

They both had head like bricks also so butts and cuts are possible.

The question is who will they give it to when the 12 rounds are over ?

Draw ? big money on the draw.


KOD

 

[BOXLOCKS]

Dundee gives Toney the slight edge in a very close fight.
But the interview probably took place before he weighed
in at 217

gl bl

 

[badjab]

pt1gard

pt1gard

couldn't find Dundee's take, but here's some other "experts" for what it's worth...

* Johnnie Whitehead, The Ring and KO magazines ? Holyfield by decision

"Toney's style, to wait for counter-punching chances, can lead to him being outworked, especially if he's more than 200 pounds."

* Frank Lotierzo, ESPN Radio 1450/Eastsideboxing/ Cyberboxingzone - Holyfield by decision

"Although I believe Toney's size and hand speed will trouble Holyfield, I have to pick him. The fact that Toney doesn't use his feet that much will help Holyfield turn it into a fight."

* Tim Struby, ESPN Magazine - Toney by decision

"His ability to slip and counterpunch against Jirov was terribly impressive. Holyfield has the perfect style, coming forward, plodding, easy to hit."

* Joe Santoliquito, The Ring magazine - Holyfield by decision

"I just think a plump, sloppy version of Toney will not have the same type of stamina to keep up with the pressure Holyfield can put on."

* Keith Idec, Newark Star Ledger - Toney by decision

"Toney's tougher to hit and also an accurate puncher who will sway judges with the type of combinations he used to defeat Jirov."

* Phil Woolever, Boxing Digest - Holyfield by decision

"Everything from natural size and strength to quality and size of opponents point for a big night for Evander if he has anything left."

* Michael Hirsley, Chicago Tribune - Holyfield by decision

"Styles make fights, but it's hard to say what styles we will see in this one. I give Holyfield a big edge if Toney stands in front of him. Toney will fare better if he chooses to slip and counter, but even in that mode I'm not sure he will score convincingly enough to win."

* Royce Feour, Las Vegas Review Journal - Toney by decision

"James Toney seems reinvigorated and determined for this fight, while Holyfield finally may be at the end of the line."

* Jay Heater, Contra Costa Times - Holyfield by KO

"If this fight turns into a slugging match, Holyfield has the chin to survive."

* Graham Houston, Boxing Monthly - Toney by decision

"Virtually even money but I am leaning towards Toney. I like Toney's hand speed and I worry about Holyfield?s advancing years with a resultant tendency to get injured more easily."

* Carlos Arias, Orange County Register - Toney by decision

"I think this will be a better fight than most people think. Holyfield will try to press the action and use his size and strength advantages. Toney will use his slick inside movement to land sharp counters."

* John Scheinman, Washington Post/Ballroom Boxing/Boxing Digest - Holyfield by KO

"Toney has had a nice late-career renaissance, but Roy Jones dipping into the heavyweight division is the exception, not the norm."

* Calvin Watkins, Dallas Morning News - Toney by decision

"We keep writing Evander Holyfield off and he keeps coming back. This time he won't be coming back."

* Bob Mladinich, the FIST/Boxing Digest - Toney by decision

"Usually when a fight is announced I have some idea who I think will win, however, I am totally perplexed. There are too many 'what ifs'. Although I've made the mistake of betting against Holyfield much too often, I'm going to do it again. Momentum should carry Toney to a decision victory."

* Steve Farhood, Showtime - Holyfield by decision

"For once, he's the bigger guy and I don't think Toney can hurt him."

* Teddy Atlas, ESPN2 - Holyfield by decision

"With a guy in front of him, he'll be able to use his size, and being the stronger guy he'll be able to be productive with a guy being in front of him."

* Max Kellerman, ESPN2 - Holyfield by decision

"You think of the Jirov-Toney fight, I don't think Holyfield at this stage can sustain his pace but Holyfield's like a Super Jirov, if he wants to be. Toney had a very tough time with Jirov and Holyfield's another class of fighter."

* Lem Satterfield, Baltimore Sun - Holyfield by decision

"I believe that Toney will out-work Holyfield as everyone does, but that Holyfield will be more economical with his punches and come straight down the pipe with everything. I think Holyfield will start getting to Toney more over the final stages of the fight and land more significant, heavier blows."

 

[acehistr8]

Just saw Toney on ESPNEWS holy crap he looks like the pilsbury doughboy. This is kind of like betting on Buffalo (NCAAF) to cover this weekend, I hate betting on the 41 year old, but it looks like Toney is not very toned for this fight. Anyone else see pictures of him/change your opinion?

 

[gardenweasel]

badjab

badjab

what great stuff....i couldn`t find those opinions......this gives you an idea why this fight is so damned hard to pick....evertbody`s split on this one.....for good reason....

i think max kellerman said it best....."will james toney`s appetite outweigh evander`s age?"....

badjab...hope you don`t mind if i copy the predicictions to show some friends.....thanks..


good stuff....

 

[ferdville]

This flies in the face of what everyone seems to be saying, but a close friend of mine that wouldn't bs said he saw Toney, complete with entourage, in the jacuzzi at Mandalay Bay Spa earlier in the week. He was surprised that Toney was not cut at all, but he didn't exactly describe him as a blimp, either. 217 does seem an absurd weight for Toney, but hasn't Evander failed to win in about 5 of his last 7 fights? I guess we will have to take a good look at him when we can, because if he is Mr. Flubber, even an old man like Evander will probably beat him down in the final rounds.

 

[pt1gard]

thanx boxlocks, badjab and GW and all you guys

thanx boxlocks, badjab and GW and all you guys

very tuff to call, wow, the line has dropped to even in snap of fingers even with Blubbo at 217 ... I dont know what Holy has anymore, but his heart is all time as everyone knows.... I see great value now in taking him but the fight seems to be an Agatha Christie to even the cognoscente

gl, to all
might pass even tho Angelo is rarely wrong
gregg

 

[gardenweasel]

big night on the forum

big night on the forum

popped out of semi-retitrment to hit with cruz carbal by k.o. big and very small on under 8......

boxlocks had a great night.....looking good....big night for the guys....

still have another big card to go......g.l. guys....

 

[gardenweasel]

big night on the forum

big night on the forum

dupe post...